Featured Ex PN Chief Zafar Mehmood Abbasi highlighted PN modernization

[Areesh]

Yarmook are not MAJOR vessels
They are basically duel purpose OPV & lightly armed corvettes

4 f22
4 milgem
4 type 54
1 jinnah possibly more and will ultimate ly replace f22
6 unknown heavy tonnage
19 are our major vessesl currently in pipeline


Yarmook, supply ships and FAC will add the other 30 for navy to be a 50 ship force

Jinnah class won't replace F22p

F22p still are hardly 10-12 years old and I don't think PN would replace them soon

 

[Yasser76]

I'm more worried about SMQ. If those secret plans fail, 100% our FM is going to get the blame: "it's because he failed to give a birthday gift to Erdogan's soon to be grandson (yes, we know, good news in 3 months)."

In terms of how the PN defines "large surface vessels..." The CNS said the PN relies on around 10 such ships, which means he's referring to 2,000+ ton ships.

Basically, the F-22P, OPV 1900 (Yarmouk-class), MILGEM, Type 054A/P, PNS Alamgir, etc are all 'large' vessels.

It's true, but one point is so many people have very different views on what is "large" and what is a corvette, frigate or destroyer. Makes it hard to than work out how strong a navy is. Tonnage is always a good indicator, but even here, a 2000 ton Israeli Saar 6 Corvette packs more punch than a 4,000 ton Indian Talwar Frigate....!

On the looks of things, seems like MILGEM and O54 will pack very big punch for their size, Yarmook less so, but that is not the point of the ship anyway. You dont need VLS to catch pirates or terrorists....

 

[Rafi]

Pakistan won't be making one Jinah even CNS used the term first Jinah. That means it would be at least four ships. What I am most curious is how big that Ballistic Missile which is under development will be and what will be its range.

@Ark_Angel @Thorough Pro @Rafi

Navy is increasing SSGN size to a Brigade and Marines will be Division plus

Regarding Spec Ops troops, you need a lot of support staff to maintain Ops, so alot of that increase will be in that area.

Much of the programme is highly classified, I was actually surprised that the PNS, divulged the info, range is classified, until it is revealed, even then it might be inaccurate to keep the enemy guessing.

The missile will be able to be fired from multiple platforms (similar to Babur), ie ground based coastal batteries, ships, and submarines.

It will give the PN a huge standoff capability and will confine the enemy to port or make him stay hundreds of km away to keep his platforms out of range.

 

[Yasser76]

Jinnah class won't replace F22p

F22p still are hardly 10-12 years old and I don't think PN would replace them soon

You are correct sir, but it is not that the hull is old, naval tech has come a long way in last 10 years, especially in the range and sophistication of missiles Pakistan now has access to. F-22 lacks these and the associated radars. Upgrade is urgent, as you say, relatively new hulls so wise to upgrade them

 

[Rafi]

I'm more worried about SMQ. If those secret plans fail, 100% our FM is going to get the blame: "it's because he failed to give a birthday gift to Erdogan's soon to be grandson (yes, we know, good news in 3 months)."

In terms of how the PN defines "large surface vessels..." The CNS said the PN relies on around 10 such ships, which means he's referring to 2,000+ ton ships.

Basically, the F-22P, OPV 1900 (Yarmouk-class), MILGEM, Type 054A/P, PNS Alamgir, etc are all 'large' vessels. Not including PNS Alamgir, the PN has 14 such ships in the pipeline or in service (F-22P), which leaves the 6 larger ships "to be contracted soon."

If the PN is simply looking for more sea control capability, then they could be looking at larger OPVs based on the Damen OPV 1800. However, if these are to be a fully capable design, then I'd wager it is the Jinnah-class frigate. Since J-Class is a separate program from the MILGEM corvettes, it would be a reasonable bet to expect a large (5,000+ ton) design.

IMHO, Yarmouk class ships are patrol vessels on steroids, but patrol vessels nonetheless.

They would not be classified as "major" surface vessels.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

It's true, but one point is so many people have very different views on what is "large" and what is a corvette, frigate or destroyer. Makes it hard to than work out how strong a navy is. Tonnage is always a good indicator, but even here, a 2000 ton Israeli Saar 6 Corvette packs more punch than a 4,000 ton Indian Talwar Frigate....!

On the looks of things, seems like MILGEM and O54 will pack very big punch for their size, Yarmook less so, but that is not the point of the ship anyway. You dont need VLS to catch pirates or terrorists....

I guess the PN is looking at two main tiers:

'Frigate' | 4 Type 054A/P, 4 F-22P and 6(?) Jinnah-Class

'Corvette' | 4 MILGEM and 2 Yarmouk-Class

IMHO, Yarmouk class ships are patrol vessels on steroids, but patrol vessels nonetheless.

They would not be classified as "major" surface vessels.

We'll have to wait for that clarification.

Right now, the Yarmouk-class (with its optional AShW and ELINT) is more capable than the Type 21s (which we classify as 'major' surface vessels today).

 

[ziaulislam]

Jinnah class won't replace F22p

F22p still are hardly 10-12 years old and I don't think PN would replace them soon

by mid 2030s they will be 30 years old
jinnah class will probably start construction in 2025..

 

[Yasser76]

I guess the PN is looking at two main tiers:

'Frigate' | 4 Type 054A/P, 4 F-22P and 6(?) Jinnah-Class

'Corvette' | 4 MILGEM and 2 Yarmouk-Class


We'll have to wait for that clarification.

Right now, the Yarmouk-class (with its optional AShW and ELINT) is more capable than the Type 21s (which we classify as 'major' surface vessels today).

Thanks Yarr, you sure the 6 extras are Jinnah? From the speech it really did seem the CNS was implying they were a bigger Yarmook follow on, as he mentioned Jinnah in a seperate context. I may be wrong here, but thats how I understood it

 

[Rafi]

I guess the PN is looking at two main tiers:

'Frigate' | 4 Type 054A/P, 4 F-22P and 6(?) Jinnah-Class

'Corvette' | 4 MILGEM and 2 Yarmouk-Class


We'll have to wait for that clarification.

Right now, the Yarmouk-class (with its optional AShW and ELINT) is more capable than the Type 21s (which we classify as 'major' surface vessels today).

True, but the reason we needed Yarmouk class is basically for policing our EEZ and to take part in international Ops such as anti piracy, made no sense to send our precious combat naval assets that would take days or weeks to get in theatre during a crisis.

Also these vessels are not strictly built according to military standards, and have limitations.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Thanks Yarr, you sure the 6 extras are Jinnah? From the speech it really did seem the CNS was implying they were a bigger Yarmook follow on, as he mentioned Jinnah in a seperate context. I may be wrong here, but thats how I understood it

It's just my guess. It really did sound as though the CNS was referring to 6 bigger Yarmouk-class. In this case, the J-Class could be something for after 2030 (which is probably the case), at which point, we're talking F-22P replacement IMHO (by 2040).

 

[Yasser76]

It's just my guess. It really did sound as though the CNS was referring to 6 bigger Yarmouk-class. In this case, the J-Class could be something for after 2030 (which is probably the case), at which point, we're talking F-22P replacement IMHO (by 2040).

Sounds logical

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I will be honest, never saw the point of Pak Marines, SSGN yes, but Marines are supposed to be Amphibious infantry and assault by sea, our Marines essentially operate a infantry role near the coast. I know I am going to get stick for this comment now....!

Reinforcing the argument in favor of a JSOC type command structure perhaps.

 

[ziaulislam]

I'm more worried about SMQ. If those secret plans fail, 100% our FM is going to get the blame: "it's because he failed to give a birthday gift to Erdogan's soon to be grandson (yes, we know, good news in 3 months)."

In terms of how the PN defines "large surface vessels..." The CNS said the PN relies on around 10 such ships, which means he's referring to 2,000+ ton ships.

Basically, the F-22P, OPV 1900 (Yarmouk-class), MILGEM, Type 054A/P, PNS Alamgir, etc are all 'large' vessels. Not including PNS Alamgir, the PN has 14 such ships in the pipeline or in service (F-22P), which leaves the 6 larger ships "to be contracted soon."

If the PN is simply looking for more sea control capability, then they could be looking at larger OPVs based on the Damen OPV 1800.

However, if these are to be a fully capable design, then I'd wager it is the Jinnah-class frigate. Since J-Class is a separate program from the MILGEM corvettes, it would be a reasonable bet to expect a large (5,000+ ton) design. The PN is clearly now calling 2,000-3,000-ton ships "corvettes" (i.e., OPV 1900 and MILGEM), so a "frigate" in the Type 054A/P's range (4,000-5,000-ton) is plausible.

Finally, 20 large surface vessels is huge. This would give Pakistan a large navy. For reference, the Royal Navy of the UK is around 25-30 'large' ships (2,000+ ton not including carriers, tankers, etc), and they have global reach. The French have around 24 such ships.

Exactly it will be one of the largest navies in the world..i hope it leverages this to ship building

 

[ziaulislam]

No body is talking about this but r we getting 1 sub for free..?

Anyone has info on yaun class subs ?
It seems heavier then s20 one

 

[Dreamer.]

Like I said out going Naval Chief didn't tell all the details. The details he told were wrong figures and this was intentionally done.Future Pakistan Navy would be much bigger than 50 ships and will have way more than 20 major vessels from that I mean it would more than 20 Destroyers and Frigates and Corvettes. Off Course Naval Chief was not going to reveal everything or reveal everything accurately.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Quwa @Rashid Mahmood @Tipu7 @Sulman Badshah @Path-Finder

Brother, I am all for PN inducting destroyers myself. Infact I have been wanting this for as long as I can remember. But what we wish for and what is realistic can sometimes be different.

Regarding destroyers for PN, I did not say that this was never going to happen. I only said that the CNS's speech did not mention them and that his reference to 6 larger tonnage ships was related to Damen ships. Most other members have interpreted his words in similar way.

Also, I specifically said that PN may have such plans but that if so we will find out about them in future (maybe). Myself I'd rather it was sooner than later but we'll have to wait and see.

To be clear though, if the CNS did not mention destroyers (as I think) than it was probably because these are not something that has matured yet and is a bit further off perhaps. Whereas he was actually outlining the progress made during his tenure so he would not cover such stuff. I would not say that he gave any wrong information though. It's true he may not have mentioned everything, for the reason I mentioned above. For example he did not metion helicopters although we know we would need a few soon. That's possibly because nothing significant was there to mention, yet. But the stuff he did mention we have to take as authentic and accurate information.

There's a reason I said I look forward to Admiral Niazi's farewell speech.

Jinnah class won't replace F22p

F22p still are hardly 10-12 years old and I don't think PN would replace them soon

By the time Jinnah class is ready to replace them, they'd be close to 25 years old.