EU mutual Defence a Threat for Turkey ?

[Babur Han]

Mutual defence clause​

The Treaty of Lisbon strengthens the solidarity between European Union (EU) Member States in dealing with external threats by introducing a mutual defence clause (Article 42(7) of the Treaty on European Union). This clause provides that if a Member State is the victim of armed aggression on its territory, the other Member States have an obligation to aid and assist it by all the means in their power, in accordance with Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations.

This obligation of mutual defence is binding on all Member States. However, it does not affect the neutrality of certain Member States and is consistent with the commitments of countries that are NATO members.

This clause is supplemented by the solidarity clause (Article 222 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union), which provides that Member States are obliged to act jointly where one of them is the victim of a terrorist attack or a natural or man-made disaster.

Mutual defence clause - EUR-Lex

eur-lex.europa.eu

It would interest me if other Members see the EU mutual Defence Clause as an possible Threat for Turkey and it's Interests in the Aegean, eastern Mediterran and North Africa. This Clause mean there is a theoretic Possibility, EU Battlegroups can be involved in any future Conflict between Greece and Turkey, Cyprus also Libya br possible.


On the other Side which measures can be taken by Turkey to strengthen it's Detterent against any Intervention by EU Battlegroups ?

Please shre your Opinion !

 

[LegionnairE]

If they were honest about it, they would attack Turkey now.

We're invading Cyprus, which they accepted into EU.

 

[Babur Han]

If they were honest about it, they would attack Turkey now.

We're invading Cyprus, which they accepted into EU.

It's more a theoretic possibility that such Scenario can happen, but still possible. Politics can develop in not foreseeable Dynamics, for this a Nation like Turkey need to be prepared

France and Article 42(7) TEU: great expectations | Uncharted and uncomfortable in European defence

www.clingendael.org

Even more controversial, however, is the question of what should be done in case of an intra-NATO conflict between an EU member state and a non-member. Such a situation may seem far-fetched, but this is precisely the scenario that arose in the summer of 2020, when Greece and Turkey were on the brink of war in the Eastern Mediterranean.[80] In these tense circumstances, the Greek government explicitly referred to Article 42(7) TEU.[81] Yet, with the exception of France, which sent warships and fighter aircraft to the region, few EU member states seemed prepared at the time to defend Athens against Ankara if push came to shove. This, in turn, probably goes some way to explaining why France and Greece decided to sign a ‘strategic partnership’ in September 2021 which, quite remarkably, includes a bilateral collective defence clause.[82] Although such a clause can be presented, as Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis and President Macron have done, as paving the way for stronger solidarity among European countries in the realm of collective defence, this can also be seen as a way for Greece and France to circumvent Article 42(7) TEU because of the difficulties that would almost certainly arise in mobilising other European countries in the event of conflict with Turkey.

 

[LegionnairE]

It's more a theoretic possibility that such Scenario can happen, but still possible. Politics can develop in not foreseeable Dynamics, for this a Nation like Turkey need to be prepared

After the war in Ukraine, presuming the Russian threat dies down a little, this might be used to put pressure on Turkey but I think it's too early to tell.


And the economic leverage they have on Turkey is much greater than the military threat they pose. So why bother?

 

[Yawm al-qiyāma]

If they were honest about it, they would attack Turkey now.

We're invading Cyprus, which they accepted into EU.

We are NATO member thats why they can't attack now. This can change when there is a new European defence pact without Turkiye. Obviously NATO will be dismantled if such pact comes to live.

 

[LegionnairE]

Obviously NATO will be dismantled if such pact comes to live.

NATO will not be dismantled in our lifetimes, it will grow instead.

No need to discuss things that's never going to happen.

 

[Yawm al-qiyāma]

NATO will not be dismantled in our lifetimes, it will grow instead.

No need to discuss things that's never going to happen.

You are not up to date about the latest devellopments on this issue. As you know during the Trump administration there were strong discussions within the EU to get out of NATO and form their own Defencepact under leadership of France.

The Presidential elections in America are not far away my prediction is if Trump gets re-elected US and EU relations will detoriate and maybe will even lead to EU countries officially leaving NATO to form their own pact.

My prediction is based on european articles and also on discussions within european politics regarding EU and Nato affairs.

 

[LegionnairE]

You are not up to date about the latest devellopments on this issue. As you know during the Trump administration there were strong discussions within the EU to get out of NATO and form their own Defencepact under leadership of France.

The Presidential elections in America are not far away my prediction is if Trump gets re-elected US and EU relations will detoriate and maybe will even lead to EU countries officially leaving NATO to form their own pact.

My prediction is based on european articles and also on discussions within european politics regarding EU and Nato affairs.

You're talking about Trump era and calling me "not up to date" ?

Ukraine war changed everything. The idea of an EU independent of USA has died on the outskirts of Kiev. Merkel is gone, things have changed.

 

[Babur Han]

You're talking about Trump era and calling me "not up to date" ?

Ukraine war changed everything. The idea of an EU independent of USA has died on the outskirts of Kiev. Merkel is gone, things have changed.

The Idea of an Multi National EU Force is still on the table. The theoretic possibility of an EU - Turkey is given, the Question is how the single Member States lay out the Article 42(7).

Even if not the whole EU enter a War against Turkey, we must Prepare France will enter the War. They signed a mutual defence Treaty with Greece.

 

[mulj]

My counter measure would be enhancing navies of Egypt, Lybia and Algiere, Barbosa sultan all over again

 

[LegionnairE]

My counter measure would be enhancing navies of Egypt, Lybia and Algiere, Barbosa sultan all over again

You realize we're still at odds with Egypt in Libya right? There's a slight normalization of relations but they still don't support our theses in mediterranean.

And Algeria, they are going for a weird mix of german and chinese vessels and their submarine force consists of six kilos.

Apart from those two MEKOs we would have to upgrade all of their ships. It would take at least 15-20 years.

 

[mulj]

You realize we're still at odds with Egypt in Libya right? There's a slight normalization of relations but they still don't support our theses in mediterranean.

And Algeria, they are going for a weird mix of german and chinese vessels and their submarine force consists of six kilos.

Apart from those two MEKOs we would have to upgrade all of their ships. It would take at least 15-20 years.

i know it is big mess and challenging situations all around but what other options do you have?
bow to the pressure and retain geopolitical midget for western suited agendas?
as the NATO membership is blessing in certain areas of statehood it has disadvantages too when trying to project your own global aspirations and time will come when you will have to make decisive choice.

 

[LegionnairE]

i know it is big mess and challenging situations all around but what other options do you have?
bow to the pressure and retain geopolitical midget for western suited agendas?
as the NATO membership is blessing in certain areas of statehood it has disadvantages too when trying to project your own global aspirations and time will come when you will have to make decisive choice.

Improve our position in NATO and Europe, Make ourselves more valuable.

Improve relations with everyone. Organize the Turks living in Europe into a powerful diaspora, etc.


There are lots of things to be done.

We should take some lessons from Russian propaganda, they really worked hard on RT and Sputnik and many other things.

 

[Babur Han]

improve our position in NATO and Europe, Make ourselves more valuable.

To become Christian and Atheist .....

 

[LegionnairE]

To become Christian and Atheist .....

Did Israel become Christian and Atheist to get all this support from America and Europe?

take off these horse blinkers

I don't know how you can become Christian and Atheist at the same time but that's besides the point lol