Erdogan Preparing Turkey For 2023 - Unfinished Business With Saudi Arabia!

[Saif al-Arab]

I wonder which nationality/region of the world the retard who made this nonsense video is from. I wonder which region exactly. Could it be the region that most users here are from?

What a surprise too.

The ethnicitities/nationalities in question relevant to neo-ottoman scope don't want to be ruled by outsiders, neither Turkey. Erdogan only managed to fulfill this in a small canton in Syria due to the situation which is quite dirty making kids wave Turkish flags lol. As if kids know anything about flags and politics, give them some candy and they'll do anything for you.

99% of the content of that video is pure manure. If a person takes it even remotely seriously it only speaks ill about their lack of intellect and mental capacity.

Yes, a few 100 Syrian Arabs and Syrian Kurds waiting the Turkish flag in tiny Afrin must mean that 500 million Arabs and 20 + Arab states can't wait to have Erdogan as our imaginary Sultan and Caliph who will rule supreme and solve all the problems of the world.

Also the retard who made this video (sounds Pakistani or Bangladeshi) does not even know elementary history of the region from the past 100 years. The House of Saud had nothing to do with the Arab Revolt as Najd was an independent country. Hashemites and Arab nationalists in Sham and Mesopotamia played a role on the other hand.

Let's instead talk about 1517 next. Ottomans "stole" the Caliphate after 1000 years of Arab rule (Rashidun, Abbasid, Umayyad, Fatimid) during the height of the Muslim civilization (Golden Islamic Age, 90% of all Islamic conquests etc.) Let's make a thread about that and talk about treason, lol.

if you talk this way you will get some answer alike:

they got their asses wiped bloody red by a handfull of jews

The same Jews that lived under the mercy of Arabs for 1400 years? Even before that as well. What is 70 years? Well done for Israel (US and West de facto) for bothering a few million Palestinians. What a huge achievement! If not for the West and USA, Israel would be dealt with by Egypt alone. That's a fact.

Have you been humiliated due to 90% of all Turks (all the genuine Central Asian Turks) living under the boot of Russians for the past 200 years? Millions Russified as well? Is that the retarded logic you want to use due to being obsessed about Arabs?

Taliban-Al Qaeda-ISIS counterparts SAUDI ARABIA demolish heritage sites hundreds of years old, effectively trying to wipe it out of history.


Built in the late 18th century Ajyad Fortress, demolished by the Wahabi Saudis in 2002
View attachment 482766

Nobody gives a shit about some useless fortress made out of clay that was barely 200 years old and which hindered the necessary expansion projects in Makkah. Arabs built 1000's of fortresses from Spain to modern-day Pakistan. Probably half have been lost in time (destroyed). Nothing to do with Islam. As well as some shrines of long dead LOCAL Hijazi people. The tombs have remained. If people want to worship shrines, they know where to go. You can't do anything but cry on some Pakistani forum. Says it all. So I say keep crying.

By 2030 both Makkah and Madinah will be infrastructural jewels and cities of a standard that both those holy cities deserve.







Wonderful projects. Let us hope that they will remove those nearby old "slums" soon as well.





A fully modern city. A living city home to millions of people. That is constantly changing. Like every city. Not some freaking museum.

Even the Vatican is a 500 year old building. Not 2000 years old. Everything in the Vatican expect for 1 single church is newer than 500 years.

The shrines of long dead Hijazi Arabs abroad (Iraq, Iran etc.) are not original ones either unless people belief that they built enormous gold-cladded and elaborated shrines 1400 years ago, anywhere in the world, lol.

I don't see people complaining that Najaf, Karbala, Qom, Mashhad etc. are fairly new shrines, buildings etc. as well that are even renovated constantly as well.

Yet with millions of new pilgrims each year (in the future this number will only grow) people expect KSA to both prevent stampedes completely, have modern services, keep everything "intact" (despite it not being the original but whatever), have the best hotels (despite complains of this never being good enough) etc. You can't satisfy everyone. Good thing that those lands are not theirs but the property of indigenous Hijazis who today are Saudi Arabians.

A Jamaican who converted to Islam yesterday in the UK has no say in what KSA or local people do with their own living ancient cities, similar to a Yemeni Arab Muslim whose family have been Muslim for 40+ generations (1300 years). That you happen to share a religion which most Hijazis (thanks to them that you are a Muslim today), does not change the situation.

I might as well use the Muslim card and demand that Indonesia changes their infrastructure in Jakarta because I believe that I have an say as a fellow Muslim, lol. Or that the giant Ataturk Mausoleum in Ankara should be blown up as it is against my "type" of Islam or my personal taste as I might not find the building beautiful, lol. Not my table but the logic can easily be used the other way around on millions of examples. Luckily that is not the real world.

Don't worry too much it's just old stone, Muslim world already is content living in the past constantly daydreaming about past glories whilst being shitholes toda.y

Crying about Western, Chinese, Israeli etc. "imperialism" but when it suits them, they are the biggest pro-imperialists. Be it Arabs (who have been the biggest imperialists in the world outside of a few European ethnic groups that can be counted on 2-3 fingers), Iranians or Turks.

The irony.

Also the "Pan-Islamist lot here from South Asia" seem to be in love with Erdogan (who has the closest relations with Israel) but are crying about Arab regimes who don't even have 10% of the relations with Israel. I would wish for KSA to have as close relations with Israel as Turkey has had and have. Maybe those same "Pan-Islamist South Asian Muslims" would not be crying about Arab regimes every two seconds on forums like PDF and we could have some useful discussions for once.

BTW Turks elected their Erdogan. Arabs did not elect most of their leaders. A big difference as well. Yet this happens.





No wonder that those Pan-Islamist deluded South Asian Muslims are the laughing stock among Muslims in the West. Either wannabe-Arabs on steroids or totally deluded people. Of course not all of them but God, have I met many such people in person or especially online. Tragic.

If MbS, a visionary young leader who have done tons of good already in KSA and wider Arab world and who enjoys great popularity currently, would make some empty populistic statements, those same people would be jumping up and down like monkeys and singing praises of him.

No wonder that most sane Pakistanis users here or online are nationalists. At least those I have had cordial/serious discussions with.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

I wonder which nationality/region of the world the retard who made this nonsense video is from. I wonder which region exactly. Could it be the region that most users here are from?

What a surprise too.



99% of the content of that video is pure manure. If a person takes it even remotely seriously it only speaks ill about their lack of intellect and mental capacity.

Yes, a few 100 Syrian Arabs and Syrian Kurds waiting the Turkish flag in tiny Afrin must mean that 500 million Arabs and 20 + Arab states can't wait to have Erdogan as our imaginary Sultan and Caliph who will rule supreme and solve all the problems of the world.

Also the retard who made this video (sounds Pakistani or Bangladeshi) does not even know elementary history of the region from the past 100 years. The House of Saud had nothing to do with the Arab Revolt as Najd was an independent country. Hashemites and Arab nationalists in Sham and Mesopotamia played a role on the other hand.

Let's instead talk about 1517 next. Ottomans "stole" the Caliphate after 1000 years of Arab rule (Rashidun, Abbasid, Umayyad, Fatimid) during the height of the Muslim civilization (Golden Islamic Age, 90% of all Islamic conquests etc.) Let's make a thread about that and talk about treason, lol.



The same Jews that lived under the mercy of Arabs for 1400 years? Even before that as well. What is 70 years? Well done for Israel (US and West de facto) for bothering a few million Palestinians. What a huge achievement! If not for the West and USA, Israel would be dealt with by Egypt alone. That's a fact.

Have you been humiliated due to 90% of all Turks (all the genuine Central Asian Turks) living under the boot of Russians for the past 200 years? Millions Russified as well? Is that the retarded logic you want to use due to being obsessed about Arabs?



Nobody gives a shit about some useless fortress made out of clay that was barely 200 years old and which hindered the necessary expansion projects in Makkah. Arabs built 1000's of fortresses from Spain to modern-day Pakistan. Probably half have been lost in time (destroyed). Nothing to do with Islam. As well as some shrines of long dead LOCAL Hijazi people. The tombs have remained. If people want to worship shrines, they know where to go. You can't do anything but cry on some Pakistani forum. Says it all. So I say keep crying.

By 2030 both Makkah and Madinah will be infrastructural jewels and cities of a standard that both those holy cities deserve.







Wonderful projects. Let us hope that they will remove those nearby old "slums" soon as well.





A fully modern city. A living city home to millions of people. That is constantly changing. Like every city. Not some freaking museum.

Even the Vatican is a 500 year old building. Not 2000 years old. Everything in the Vatican expect for 1 single church is newer than 500 years.

The shrines of long dead Hijazi Arabs abroad (Iraq, Iran etc.) are not original ones either unless people belief that they built enormous gold-cladded and elaborated shrines 1400 years ago, anywhere in the world, lol.

I don't see people complaining that Najaf, Karbala, Qom, Mashhad etc. are fairly new shrines, buildings etc. as well that are even renovated constantly as well.

Yet with millions of new pilgrims each year (in the future this number will only grow) people expect KSA to both prevent stampedes completely, have modern services, keep everything "intact" (despite it not being the original but whatever), have the best hotels (despite complains of this never being good enough) etc. You can't satisfy everyone. Good thing that those lands are not theirs but the property of indigenous Hijazis who today are Saudi Arabians.

A Jamaican who converted to Islam yesterday in the UK has no say in what KSA or local people do with their own living ancient cities, similar to a Yemeni Arab Muslim whose family have been Muslim for 40+ generations (1300 years). That you happen to share a religion which most Hijazis (thanks to them that you are a Muslim today), does not change the situation.

I might as well use the Muslim card and demand that Indonesia changes their infrastructure in Jakarta because I believe that I have an say as a fellow Muslim, lol. Or that the giant Ataturk Mausoleum in Ankara should be blown up as it is against my "type" of Islam or my personal taste as I might not find the building beautiful, lol. Not my table but the logic can easily be used the other way around on millions of examples. Luckily that is not the real world.



Crying about Western, Chinese, Israeli etc. "imperialism" but when it suits them, they are the biggest pro-imperialists. Be it Arabs (who have been the biggest imperialists in the world outside of a few European ethnic groups that can be counted on 2-3 fingers), Iranians or Turks.

The irony.

Also the "Pan-Islamist lot here from South Asia" seem to be in love with Erdogan (who has the closest relations with Israel) but are crying about Arab regimes who don't even have 10% of the relations with Israel. I would wish for KSA to have as close relations with Israel as Turkey has had and have. Maybe those same "Pan-Islamist South Asian Muslims" would not be crying about Arab regimes every two seconds on forums like PDF and we could have some useful discussions for once.

BTW Turks elected their Erdogan. Arabs did not elect most of their leaders. A big difference as well. Yet this happens.





No wonder that those Pan-Islamist deluded South Asian Muslims are the laughing stock among Muslims in the West. Either wannabe-Arabs on steroids or totally deluded people. Of course not all of them but God, have I met many such people in person or especially online. Tragic.

If MbS, a visionary young leader who have done tons of good already in KSA and wider Arab world and who enjoys great popularity currently, would make some empty populistic statements, those same people would be jumping up and down like monkeys and singing praises of him.

No wonder that most sane Pakistanis users here or online are nationalists. At least those I have had cordial/serious discussions with.

It would be nice if you as a regular Arab tell what you/Arabs in streets today understand of ''Neo-Ottomanism'' without any current political issues in the story.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

It would be nice if you as a regular Arab tell what you/Arabs in streets today understand of ''Neo-Ottomanism'' without any current political issues in the story.

Ottomans had nothing to do with modern-day Turkish nationalism (I believe that it is the right of every people to be nationalistic/patriotic and I find nationalistic/patriotic Arabs, Turks, Iranians, Pakistanis etc. (you name it) closer to my heart, worldview and in general more rational than deluded Pan-Islmaists, some of whom we saw in action in this thread and tons of other threads on this section) and the majority of the Ottoman population was Arab. Ottoman language for instance was more Arabic than Turkish. Ottoman culture was heavily influenced by Arabic culture too.

Many Arabs (when the Ottoman dynasty had capable rulers and did not discriminate nor down-prioritize regions in the empire) saw themselves as equal Ottoman citizens and contributed as any other people be it Turks, Albanians, Bosnians and others.

Other Arabs saw them as occupiers who were more concerned about development far away in tiny Balkans and felt neglected or wanted Arabs to regain the Caliphate which they had ruled for 1000 years prior.

Arabs did not fight Ottomans when Suleiman I proclaimed himself as Caliph in 1517. There were no battles between Ottomans or Arabs back then other than in Egypt where Mamluks were present.

In areas such as west of Egypt, Ottomans had very little presence and only in the coastal regions. That is why people in modern-day Algeria, Tunisia and Libya have mostly neutral views of the Ottomans or positive ones. The Ottomans who were present there merged with the locals as well.

In Iraq and Sham (Levant) there are more anti-Ottomans due to historical reasons and policies of the Ottomans.

In Arabia, a region where Ottomans had a marginal presence (mostly military barracks and a few officials in major cities) the view depends on your ideology. Islamists look favorably at the Ottomans as they do with the Rashiduns, Umayyads, Abbasids, Fatimids etc. Nationalist have a different view.

Similar as in Turkey. It all depends on the person. History is complex. Turks are not taught or do not know many things related to the Ottoman period, especially the last 100 years, but most know about an imaginary "betrayal of Arabs", forgetting the reasons for the uprising, what caused it, that others (Albanians) etc. did it prior, that Turks themselves did it (Young Turks) etc.

I will tell you this. Even the most deluded Arab Islamists do not dream about Erdogan or whatever "ruling them". At most they consider him the best leader currently and wish the best for Turkey. But that view will be changed immediately if people like the thread starter @Combat-Master , dreams of some nonsense that won't ever happen.

@SALMAN F

Salman might add something here as an Iraqi but I know that Iraqis have (generally) a negative view of the Ottomans due to neglect in Iraq (since the Mongol sack of Baghdad 750 years ago, Iraq has stagnated and Ottoman nor Safavid presence, changed that). Situation is somewhat similar today. Neither neighbor is particularly good for Iraq which @OutOfAmmo can explain the reasons for.

@Syrian Lion (the only Syrian user on PDF) had a very negative view of the Ottomans (for historical reasons in Sham as well) which is something that I have seen among many Arabs from the Levant. Probably the most anti-Ottoman region in the Arab world.

Maghreb, Arabia etc., as I wrote, is more neutral or either negative or positive, depending on the ideology.

How do Turks look at the Rashidun, Umayyad, Abbasid and Fatimid Caliphates?

BTW it is amazing that moderators are tolerating such threads. This is basically if someone here made a thread about some foreign ruler having unfinished business with Erdogan (Turkey) and spreading propaganda. Outrageous.

 

[Timur]

In Iraq and Sham (Levant) there are more anti-Ottomans due to historical reasons and policies of the Ottomans.

mostly of bathist and nationalistic reasons.. then the british influence and other tribal reasons..

 

[Saif al-Arab]

mostly of bathist and nationalistic reasons.. then the british influence and other tribal reasons..

There was no Ba'athism 100 years ago. Arabs are some of the most nationalistic people in the world (long before the concept of nationalism was adopted by Europeans) so that is nothing new.

In short I must disappoint you tremendously if you believe that even more than 0,01% of Arabs worldwide dream about being ruled by some imaginary Caliphate led by Erdogan or that we are suddenly going to want to learn Turkish and wave some Turkish flags as those few 100 poor war refugees in tiny Afrin (Syrian Arabs and Syrian Kurds) did in front of Turkish cameras. You should not believe everything that Erdogan-controlled state media in Turkey tells you. I don't know what they have told you of fairytale stories but you will be disappointed, that I can tell you already.

Arabs and Turks can have great ties as neighbors but as history is our witness, the second that Arabs were discontent, it was the end of the Ottomans in the few regions of the Arab world where they were present. Once again, most Ottomans were ethnic Arabs but let us forget that for a while. This was the same story with every other occupier/visitor. Palestinians too will eventually get their own country. Not too far from now.

 

[HannibalBarca]

Erdogan is not a representation neither a rightful ruler of any "Muslim" around the world... only entitled to Turks who elected him.
The Ottoman Empire, in its last century of existence, was a Mess... A Corrupt entity... and Needed to Disappear.... Lands under Ottoman rules, in those last days, suffered from it, mostly the Levant/Sham region, That's why discontent arose...with the Result/Consequences of today...
KSA, did wrong/ and poor choices in those past Decades... Whatever ideologically or Politically around the Region...

No one is Black and White... Each will be judged Accordingly... And Making one or the other the "True/Rightful" ones is an Hypocritical move...

As for the Urban changes in Mecca... is needed, when taking into account the increase of ppl... Therefore... Houses are Houses... Fortress are Fortress... So as long you don't touch the tombs and The Kaaba, all is good... But everyone can give his opinion about few projects...

Like that Ugly A** Big Ben... I will Hung the designer and the one who approved it...

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Erdogan is not a representation neither a rightful ruler of any "Muslim" around the world... only entitled to Turks who elected him.
The Ottoman Empire, in its last century of existence, was a Mess... A Corrupt entity... and Needed to Disappear.... Lands under Ottoman rules, in those last days, suffered from it, mostly the Levant/Sham region, That's why discontent arose...with the Result/Consequences of today...
KSA, did wrong/ and poor choices in those past Decades... Whatever ideologically or Politically around the Region...

No one is Black and White... Each will be judged Accordingly... And Making one or the other the "True/Rightful" ones is an Hypocritical move...

As for the Urban changes in Mecca... is needed, when taking into account the increase of ppl... Therefore... Houses are Houses... Fortress are Fortress... So as long you don't touch the tombs and The Kaaba, all is good... But everyone can give his opinion about few projects...

Like that Ugly A** Big Ben... I will Hung the designer and the one who approved it...

The Abraj al-Bait Towers can and most likely will be destroyed eventually and be replaced by modern architecture in say 100-200 years or even sooner. It's the nature of living cities, especially big ones as Makkah. Not my favorite building either but it has grown on me with time.

Anyway currently not even 10% of the projects in Makkah have been finished. The final result will look much better than currently.

All those crying about a few houses (never knew that houses played a role in Islam) or shrines (tombs exist as always), they can in theory be rebuilt (I am sure that MbS will be happy attracting additional millions of mostly Shia pilgrims who will worship those shrines) but people forget that this is not 1400 years ago. The skyline of Makkah has changed completely and constantly like that of most cities.

Even the best well-kept ancient city in the world, Rome, most of it, are fairly newly built architecture, with the exception of 3-4 Roman buildings/attractions that have survived the hardships of time. Even the main Basilica in the Vatican is not an original building. Less than 500 years old. The original was long ago demolished.

99% of the architecture of Paris was built after 1870! Less than 150 years. Most tourists believe that it is several centuries old. They are wrong. Almost all of old Paris was demolished less than 150 years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussmann's_renovation_of_Paris

Most of Istanbul's current architecture is less than 100 years old too expect for certain tourist sites and a few select buildings in the old quarters. Despite being a Greek city for 1000+ years, the most famous Greek remain is Hagia Sophia which was turned into a mosque and thus modified internally and externally. Says it all really.

Yet some Muslims foolishly and ignorantly belief that citizens of Makkah and Madinah (millions of people) will want to be surrounded and live in infrastructure that is 1400 years old. Or as if they are not living cities but some open museums, lol.











Inspired by local Hijazi architecture.

Much better than these "old" slum like dwellings.



https://www.trekearth.com/gallery/Middle_East/Saudi_Arabia/East/Makkah/Makkah/photo1454017.htm

Photographer's Note
Every year; millions of people come to Makkah for their religious rituals, the insight that not everybody knows about; a fraction of those millions doesn't leave Makkah (every year), and stay illegally, which have created (over decades and decades) an enormous problem in Saudi Arabia.

The story doesn't stop here, those who stayed; are getting married and delivering children, all of them are illegal. Latest statistics are showing thousands (in double-digits) of people from different countries around the world are living without education, medical and a simple ID card. Although the government is trying their best to accommodate those people into the society, as its getting difficult to export them back to their countries (since many of them never saw their mother country, and those countries wont accept them simply because they cannot verity any information about their origin).

Its a total mess... and that mess is somehow converted into the above image... where you find thousands of red bricks houses being built over Makkah interior mountains.

Cheers...​

Yes, that is a part of Makkah (not far from Al-Masjid al-Haram) that is mostly inhabited by the Rohingya community and illegal migrants. Now slowly being demolished.

 

[HannibalBarca]

The Abraj al-Bait Towers can and most likely will be destroyed eventually and be replaced by modern architecture in say 100-200 years or even sooner. It's the nature of living cities, especially big ones as Makkah. Not my favorite building either but it has grown on me with time.

Anyway currently not even 10% of the projects in Makkah have been finished. The final result will look much better than currently.

All those crying about a few houses (never knew that houses played a role in Islam) or shrines (tombs exist as always), they can in theory be rebuilt (I am sure that MbS will be happy attracting additional millions of mostly Shia pilgrims who will worship those shrines) but people forget that this is not 1400 years ago. The skyline of Makkah has changed completely and constantly like that of most cities.

Even the best well-kept ancient city in the world, Rome, most of it, are newly built architecture, with the exception of 3-4 Roman buildings that have survived the hardships of time. Even the Vatican is not an original building. Less than 500 years old. The original was long ago demolished.

99% of the architecture of Paris was built after 1870! Less than 150 years. Most tourists believe that it is several centuries old. They are wrong. Almost all of old Paris was demolished less than 150 years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussmann's_renovation_of_Paris













Inspired by local Hijazi architecture.

Much better than this "old" slum like dwellings.



https://www.trekearth.com/gallery/Middle_East/Saudi_Arabia/East/Makkah/Makkah/photo1454017.htm

Yes, that is a part of Makkah (not far from Al-Masjid al-Haram) that is mostly inhabited by the Rohingya community and illegal migrants. Now slowly being demolished.

I understand the Urban Evolution of a City... And I think it's needed...

BUT... I'm not for Making Makkah a City among Cities... I wish it to stay a place "Only" for Worship...Where people come and go... only Few stay around/Live and nothing more... I'm against to make it into a "SuperCity"...

Makkah as it is right now...is already turning into a "Tourist Destination"... I Know many... Too much people...who speak about Makkah, as they will speak about Paris/Rome or London... Where they use the Excuse to perform the "Umrah" Each year such to "Visit and Shopping"...
Therefore, Turning into into a full fledge city... will push even more people to such behavior...

 

[Saif al-Arab]

I understand the Urban Evolution of a City... And I think it's needed...

BUT... I'm not for Making Makkah a City among Cities... I wish it to stay a place "Only" for Worship...Where people come and go... only Few stay around/Live and nothing more... I'm against to make it into a "SuperCity"...

Makkah as it is right now...is already turning into a "Tourist Destination"... I Know many... Too much people...who speak about Makkah, as they will speak about Paris/Rome or London... Where they use the Excuse to perform the "Umrah" Each year such to "Visit and Shopping"...
Therefore, Turning into into a full fledge city... will push even more people to such behavior...

It cannot (never was to begin with) only be a "place for worship" as both Makkah and Madinah (3000+ year old cities) are two of the largest cities in Hijaz and KSA and living cities inhabited by millions of locals who have never lived anywhere else in recorded history (at least as far as they know).

Of course Makkah and Madinah will turn into "tourist destinations" as those visiting them (mainly) are religious tourists.

Anyway I know what you mean, I am too in favor of restoring and keeping the old parts of Makkah (Madinah is doing a good job at that and is a different case due to much less challenging geography) and I won't personally mind if MbS or another future ruler of KSA (whether House of Saud or not, don't care) rebuilds some ancient houses or shrines, but the problem is that this cannot go hand in hand with the expansion projects which are needed due to simple demographics.

Anyway this does not help either.




https://www.trekearth.com/gallery/Middle_East/Saudi_Arabia/East/Makkah/Makkah/photo1454017.htm

Photographer's Note
Every year; millions of people come to Makkah for their religious rituals, the insight that not everybody knows about; a fraction of those millions doesn't leave Makkah (every year), and stay illegally, which have created (over decades and decades) an enormous problem in Saudi Arabia.

The story doesn't stop here, those who stayed; are getting married and delivering children, all of them are illegal. Latest statistics are showing thousands (in double-digits) of people from different countries around the world are living without education, medical and a simple ID card. Although the government is trying their best to accommodate those people into the society, as its getting difficult to export them back to their countries (since many of them never saw their mother country, and those countries wont accept them simply because they cannot verity any information about their origin).

Its a total mess... and that mess is somehow converted into the above image... where you find thousands of red bricks houses being built over Makkah interior mountains.

Cheers...
​

A problem that most foreigners have no clue about or understand the scope of. KSA could have rounded those people up and deported them ages ago but due to the prevalent pan-Islamic ideology in KSA (at least during the Sahwa period) those people were left alone largely.

Here is a paper from the University of Pennsylvania about this problem.

The Emergence of Slums in Makkah, Saudi Arabia, and the Saudi Government Response ​

https://fac.ksu.edu.sa/sites/default/files/ali-almubarak-cpln626-final-paper.pdf

Before this is not solved, Makkah will continue to be a constant and living building spot and those necessary infrastructural projects will be delayed.

BTW the Pakistani (I believe that is where he is from when looking at his nonsense Youtube channel) that made this nonsense video, full of historical absurdities and current day lies, fails to mention (instead he prefers to lie) is that those porticos in Makkah date from the Abbasid period, later renovated by Ottomans, and now renovated by a team of Saudi Arabian and Turkish experts.

Yet the shameless idiot who claims to be some saved Muslim (never knew Muslims were allowed to outright lie or spread division) talks about it being "destroyed" in that video.

The nonsense claim of 99% of the Islamic heritage sites in Makkah and Madinah being destroyed is also another absurd lie. Yes, 99% of all the shrines (mostly tiny) were destroyed indeed and some 200 year old mud fortress built by Ottomans just across the Al-Masjid al-Haram due to otherwise expansion projects being impossible to be made.

Not the finished work at all. As I wrote 10% has been finished so far. It is a monumental job and scale due to the size and geographic challenges of Makkah (mostly mountainous rock).

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Unfortunately, Arab hate of Turkey and Iran is pushing those Arab countries into the Zionist and Western Fascist (Trump) group.

What these sell-outs don’t realize is the amount of hate their so called allies have for them. KSA is universally reviled in the US across party lines, for example, as the example of the worst and most repressive Muslim country.

 

[Timur]

Turkish flags as those few 100 poor war refugees in tiny Afrin

and the ones that supported us with waving turkish flags and shouting erdogans name in the streets in turkey and some arab nations in the coup attemp..
but by the way that was a poor answer to disturb your special refugee orgasms..

I also now how many refugees we got in turkey and how many their big rich arab brothers host.. I also know that SA send them bag encuraging them for jihad.. (refugee problem solved)

You should not believe everything that Erdogan-controlled state media in Turkey tells you

hmmmmmm you have a disturbed cognitive recognition of your envoiriment if you tell that me!

you picked the right one to tell about erdogans media.. specially when you the counterpart are sometimes repeating mbs media thats almost sputnik alike

In short I must disappoint you tremendously if you believe that even more than 0,01% of Arabs worldwide dream about being ruled by some imaginary Caliphate led by Erdogan

lol we know it.. but we belive to have brought honor with our weapons and think it would be a good thing to do it again

we know how arabs are.. except some romantic dazed ppl, many ppl know the truth

many arabs are narcissistic people, an enemy against themselves, and to our cultural standards lack of respect for elders and family specially their own woman.. they come with islam for their own goal and own ruling.. and will use you as cannon fodder @pakistanis for their own desires..

as always you can gather many individuals who are not like this discription but about most of their leaders and nations you can say this without fearing to be wrong

the arab world is havily under "game of thrones" the best thing is to know it and to prepare against them
I would strongly recomment turks and pakistanis and indonesians to work together and prepare themselves

There was no Ba'athism 100 years ago

read it again I said Ba'athism AND Nationalism where reasons

But, I can tell you the meaning of "and" in many languages they use the word "wa" for it, it means in this case both have that influence.. anti turkish politics and propaganda is a good tool for them because they got independent and need an external enemy and an excuse.. if you wish you can see my list as a childish timeline from bathists to nationalistic to tribes all things are true and have an influence and its absurd to reduce something to only a handfull of influences..

 

[313ghazi]

I look forward to the day the two holy cities are taken from the wahhabis and restored into the control of the sunni Muslims.

These Barbarians destroyed jannatul Baqi twice, something that existed for thousands of years without anyone committing shirk. The greatest bidah is wahhabism itself. The greatest shirk is thier worship of the dollar.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10160541306550223

 

[Saddam Hussein]

I look forward to the day the two holy cities are taken from the wahhabis and restored into the control of the sunni Muslims.

These Barbarians destroyed jannatul Baqi twice, something that existed for thousands of years without anyone committing shirk. The greatest bidah is wahhabism itself. The greatest shirk is thier worship of the dollar.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10160541306550223

Muslims will trash Islam when the dollar comes in a situation, I seen it many times.people are good at justifying their actions in the name and in front of God.

If I was Saudi I certainly wouldn't let a foreigner especially not one from far away in Asia tell me how to live. There is too much interest in the Middle East from abroad, a black or white man that suddenly converts to Islam starts preaching what these countries should rule like whilst they don't even speak Arabic. They're foreigners there just as I am a foreigner in Pakistan

 

[313ghazi]

Muslims will trash Islam when the dollar comes in a situation, I seen it many times.people are good at justifying their actions in the name and in front of God.

If I was Saudi I certainly wouldn't let a foreigner especially not one from far away in Asia tell me how to live. There is too much interest in the Middle East from abroad, a black or white man that suddenly converts to Islam starts preaching what these countries should rule like whilst they don't even speak Arabic. They're foreigners there just as I am a foreigner in Pakistan

Whoever looked after the Kaaba, even in pagan times had to take dictation from others. I The holy sites are more important than any border made by men. The respect of those sites transcends borders and nationality. Makkah and Medinah belong too ALL Muslims, as much as Jerusalem belongs to us. If re-drawing those borders is what it takes to respect those sites, that is easily done.

I try to avoid these debates because it causes fitna amongst us, but the truth is a lot of the vandalism and destruction done in the holy cities is due to Wahhabi ideology and not necessity. Janatul Baaqi was destroyed twice by people riding camels and donkeys. They didn't have any infrastructural reasons to do so. For 1300 years Islam thrived with Tombs in that place, yet they destroyed them because of their religious bigotory.

In the UK great efforts are made to preserve history, our Islamic history is being wiped out to make space for Starbucks.

 

[CrimsonFury]

Turkey should allow the Arabs to enjoy their new found "independence" as dictated by Israel and Uncle Sam. They stabbed us in the back for it.