Erdogan: Islam needs to be updated. You cannot apply Islam with laws from 14 centuries ago.

[Cthulhu]

And the penny drops.

 

[OldTwilight]

Islam advertised itself as "Final and Eternal Religion" and if you say : " Islam need to revise itself " then you are covertly saying that " Islam has problems " ...

so to my Sunni brother , you are free to choose between this three options :
1- Current interpretation of Islam is 100% correct and some so called Caliphe and Sahahbeh were all correct ( As most Sunnis claims )
2- Current interpretation of Islam is wrong and need some divine power need to come and correct it ( As Shiia are claiming --- when I say Shiia , I don't mean our Mullah in power who are claiming "we are best and purest of all time")
3- Admit that Islam has fundamental problem and is a lie ...


IMO the logical choice would be 2nd option but then WELCOME TO SECTARIAN HATEFUL DEBATE which will end with " you are Kaffir and you should be killed "

so lets agree to disagree before getting warm and and begin to killing each other ...

 

[Nalini]

How about the RSS ??

I already told, not to bring internal issues when talking about international affairs. Every country has it's own internal share of issues. India is not a exporter of terror & many Indians get killed or murdered almost every month somewhere around the globe. The fellow Indians don't start riots or carnage in revenge. They try to sink in to the culture & respect the country they are in. Hindus don't impose their own laws or preach the other countries to change their culture according to ours. We don't ask for special rights or make demands based on religion. This is where the difference is.

And even the killings of Indians is due to Indians taking their job. It's because Indians go to other countries & grow very fast to have a better life than the local. Many times the local reporting to a Indian. This is why Indians are targeted to go back home, not for our religion.

 

[OldTwilight]

Turkey should take the lead in fighting Femicide which prevails in many Muslim countries. Turkey should allow its women to marry Non-Muslims like how Tunisia is liberalizing its society by lifting ban.

Extreme anti Islamic laws always will bread Radical so called Jihadis ( also most of them are just criminal fools whom don't have great understanding of Islam ... )

 

[jamahir]

Islam advertised itself as "Final and Eternal Religion" and if you say : " Islam need to revise itself " then you are covertly saying that " Islam has problems " ...

so to my Sunni brother , you are free to choose between this three options :
1- Current interpretation of Islam is 100% correct and some so called Caliphe and Sahahbeh were all correct ( As most Sunnis claims )
2- Current interpretation of Islam is wrong and need some divine power need to come and correct it ( As Shiia are claiming --- when I say Shiia , I don't mean our Mullah in power who are claiming "we are best and purest of all time")
3- Admit that Islam has fundamental problem and is a lie ...


IMO the logical choice would be 2nd option but then WELCOME TO SECTARIAN HATEFUL DEBATE which will end with " you are Kaffir and you should be killed "

so lets agree to disagree before getting warm and and begin to killing each other ...

There is a fourth point. Islam was a radical socialist revolution for its time. But it was incomplete. For example, in Islam, land is private property whereas in some versions of modern socialist thought, land is a public property that is assigned to citizens as per need.

So I believe that Islam must be updated in the light of modern progressive thought.

Edit : I was born to a Sunni family.

I already told, not to bring internal issues when talking about international affairs.

I agree that the topic of RSS is off-topic for this thread and it should be taken to the 'Whatever' thread.

i.e. if you want it so.

 

[Nalini]

Extreme anti Islamic laws always will bread Radical so called Jihadis ( also most of them are just criminal fools whom don't have great understanding of Islam ... )

Nobody will have any problem with Muslims or any religion If all feel comfortable with your public behavior. Muslims do things & commit crimes which cannot be accepted in other countries. If you demand special religious rights & provisions, the local people will definitely not like it. Islamophobia is only going to rise unless Muslims get together to change. The concept of Jihad & Kuffr needs to be abolished from your teachings. Muslim countries should get over the false belief Shariah will bring peace & prosperity in the world.

Shariah law can be acceptable if it's applied in Muslim countries & they show by example by having a peaceful & prosperous country. Which Islamic country has applied Shariah law 100% & who has progressed. It's not possible in today's modern world. The women are raising their voice against Hijab & Islamic rule, because you can't suppress woman & say that's right. When they get educated & are fed up they will fight for their rights & it will happen in every Muslim country when they unite together.

Iran being a Oil rich country, should have been ruling the middle east. Iranians are highly talented & brainy people. They can do wonders, especially in Science & technology, if they get out of these Sunni-Shia unwanted conflict. You have huge well educated youth population who are jobless & suffering. Imagine all these unwanted religious war money, used for development & for the youth.

We have the Parsis in India & we know how well-organised & progressive their thinking & ethics are. Every Indian has huge respect for the Parsis, because you will never find a poor Parsi in India. They are the richest community in India.

We wish the same for Iran. If you have relations with other people & country based on trust without bringing religion & your practices to preach & defend, countries like Iran can be Regional powers. See Indonesia, it's fast progressing because the women have far more freedom. Same was in Turkey, but they are getting sucked into the Islamic doctrine & fights of Middle East. We want a peaceful world, where our energies should be focused on growth & ways to healthy relationships.

 

[jamahir]

@Zibago @django @Mentee @The_Showstopper

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/erdo...-14-centuries-ago.547846/page-9#post-10322178

 

[OldTwilight]

There is a fourth point. Islam was a radical socialist revolution for its time. But it was incomplete. For example, in Islam, land is private property whereas in some versions of modern socialist thought, land is a public property that is assigned to citizens as per need.

So I believe that Islam must be updated in the light of modern progressive thought.

I agree that the topic of RSS is off-topic for this thread and it should be taken to the 'Whatever' thread.

Shit will happen ... Islam laws are tight to each other , if you try to change one law then you are trying to change all law and if you change all laws , then the new laws are not Islamic ......

 

[Zibago]

There is a fourth point. Islam was a radical socialist revolution for its time. But it was incomplete. For example, in Islam, land is private property whereas in some versions of modern socialist thought, land is a public property that is assigned to citizens as per need.

So I believe that Islam must be updated in the light of modern progressive thought.

Edit : I was born to a Sunni family.



I agree that the topic of RSS is off-topic for this thread and it should be taken to the 'Whatever' thread.

i.e. if you want it so.

I am for moxing it up a little housing should be responsibility of state but private ownership to a degree should be allowed in a controlled fashion where they are forced to take care of the surrounding area of operational region

Turkey should take the lead in fighting Femicide which prevails in many Muslim countries. Turkey should allow its women to marry Non-Muslims like how Tunisia is liberalizing its society by lifting ban.

A recent 2015 poll by Metropoll found that over 80% of Turkish people supported the continuation of Turkey as a secular state, with even the majority of AKP voters supporting a secular state. Furthermore, according to a 2016 Pew Research Center Report, only 13% of all Turks believe laws should "strictly follow the teachings of the Qur'an."
Religious liberalization will help solve issues with Kurds & other smaller sects. Yazdânism & all other ancient cultures needs to be researched & preserved

I may not have much knowledge of Turkey neither am I worried or concerned of your internal affairs, I just thought to share my personal view. You will see in our discussions here or anywhere, we will hardly bring Turkey in our discussions or show hatred even if it's a religious discussion. Reason because we have a progressive & secular image of Turkey

Love Jihad sey allergy aur yahan ye? wah miyan kiya kehney

 

[I.R.A]

For example, in Islam, land is private property whereas in some versions of modern socialist thought, land is a public property that is assigned to citizens as per need.

When I asked you evidence for this you never replied back.

Plenty of material is present in Quran to prove that it doesn't encourage capitalism but considers it a evil, a hurdle.

Islam doesn't need reforms, it us ...... me and you who need to go back to basics ....... you have been wasting your time studying inferior concepts in isolation without understanding the more superior system that these concepts originated from, concepts borrowed from Islam in parts and implemented as some indigenous ideologies.

 

[mike2000 is back]

From what i have noticed in all these comments, we can conclude that Islam (like many other Religions) doesnt have a clear cut universally acceptable definition and almost every group, sect, country, individual and religious preachers have their own interpretation and they each claim their own version is the correct one. Reason I think there's no point in fighting for religion. Those that keep it away from governance/public life and day to day running of the country have a point(we already learbed that long ago). Since how can you people convince a non believer when you yourselves don't even agree on a clear interpretation/meaning of your religion. Too many conflicting views, but then that's the case with almost every religion.

 

[jamahir]

Shit will happen ... Islam laws are tight to each other , if you try to change one law then you are trying to change all law and if you change all laws , then the new laws are not Islamic ......

Hmm.

I need to think about this more.

I am for moxing it up a little housing should be responsibility of state but private ownership to a degree should be allowed in a controlled fashion where they are forced to take care of the surrounding area of operational region

Sort of Open Source Software model.

Love Jihad sey allergy aur yahan ye? wah miyan kiya kehney

@Nalini is a woman. At least her user-name is.

When I asked you evidence for this you never replied back.

I didn't reply because it is too tiring/fatiguing to argue over basics. I will take some more time to reply on this at length.

Plenty of material is present in Quran to prove that it doesn't encourage capitalism but considers it a evil, a hurdle.

Which is why I called Islam a early socialist movement.

Islam doesn't need reforms, it us ...... me and you who need to go back to basics ....... you have been wasting your time studying inferior concepts in isolation without understanding the more superior system that these concepts originated from, concepts borrowed from Islam in parts and implemented as some indigenous ideologies.

I know for a fact that certain modern laws borrowed from Islam. For example, the modern civil marriage law in India which borrowed from Western law which in turn borrowed from Islam.

 

[I.R.A]

Since can you people even convince a non believer when you yourselves don't even agree on a clear interpretation/meaning of your religion. Too many conflicting views, but then that's the case with almost every religion.

If non believer is interested in learning about Islam ........ he / she shouldn't be listening to people, studying Quran to understand ..... would be the first step .......

 

[I.R.A]

Which is why I called Islam a early socialist movement.

You cannot assign a time period to Islam and Quran ....... the more we progress the more we are closer to understanding the truth. It is just the matter of better understanding ........

 

[jamahir]

@Nalini , I referred to you in this post -

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/erdo...-14-centuries-ago.547846/page-9#post-10322251​