Erdogan: Islam needs to be updated. You cannot apply Islam with laws from 14 centuries ago.

[Nalini]

@Nalini , I referred to you in this post -

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/erdo...-14-centuries-ago.547846/page-9#post-10322251​

No problem. You are right. Love Jihad is because it's a one sided affair. Muslims want to marry other girls & convert them to theirs, but won't allow their girls to marry into others religion & convert. They will target the boy & his family physically, even kill them, if they see a Muslim girl with any other boy. They can also be honor Killing. Not only Hindus all others are voicing Love Jihad, because they want to protect their girls from converting, like how Muslims want to protect their girls & not allow conversion. Why do Muslims have to woo Non-Muslim girls, if they cannot respect & accept their beliefs & practices. I feel India should pass a law, if any Muslim boy marries a non-muslim girl, they should convert to the girl's religion, then the Love-Jihad will automatically stop.

Love Jihad or all hatred in the world for Muslims will stop, when religious & diplomatic Muslim leaders or Islamic countries pass a law that Muslims are free to convert to any religion if they wish. Can you do this. How many Muslim men will agree to this personally. Hindus can convert to any religion, so are other religions.

Honestly, I shall personally not allow my sister, daughter or any girl in my family or friend to marry a Muslim boy because it's a selfish religion & it's a religion enjoyed by men, not women. I have no problem or worries, if they marry any other religion. Just last month my Brother in Law married a Christian girl. We all get along so well. Both families enjoyed the wedding, religious customs & visits to each other's house. The girl still practices Christianity.

 

[newb3e]

pdf reformin Islman now i see! and Indians have opinion on Islam! amazing world we live in!

 

[mike2000 is back]

If non believer is interested in learning about Islam ........ he / she shouldn't be listening to people, studying Quran to understand ..... would be the first step .......

He will also 'study' Quran and 'understand' just like you all do, and then come to this own conclusion /interpretation /version, joining one of the already many views with their own interpretation. Becoming just another statistic. Lol

 

[SouI]

Extreme anti Islamic laws always will bread Radical so called Jihadis ( also most of them are just criminal fools whom don't have great understanding of Islam ... )

How is 'allowing muslim women to marry nonmuslim men' an 'extreme unislamic law'..?

Plenty of material is present in Quran to prove that it doesn't encourage capitalism but considers it a evil, a hurdle.

That must be one of the reasons why Erdogan wants to update the religion. Free market principle, as known as capitalism, is the sole reason of all the technological and scientific advancements in the world. Capitalism is just the economics side of natural selection. Do you know about natural selection?

All countries need capitalism to advance. Or they would just lack behind like Venezuela and North Korea.

Islam indeed is fundamentally a socialist ideology. It orders a "wealth tax" of 2.5% (zakat), the most socialist form of taxation that has ever been created by human civilization.

That is also one of the reasons why islam freaks me out so much.

But again.. Everything is a part of the natural selection. No one can avoid it, no one can escape it.

If a country would adopt zakat, that country would just go down the drain by the laws of nature (aka natural selection) due to the competition among countries.

 

[Mentee]

There is a fourth point. Islam was a radical socialist revolution for its time. But it was incomplete. For example, in Islam, land is private property whereas in some versions of modern socialist thought, land is a public property that is assigned to citizens as per need.

So I believe that Islam must be updated in the light of modern progressive thought.

Edit : I was born to a Sunni family.



I agree that the topic of RSS is off-topic for this thread and it should be taken to the 'Whatever' thread.

i.e. if you want it so.

Religion Islam comprehensively deals and Chenalizes the human nature and instincts towards positive ways hence, emphasizes on the rules of equity in human affairs . One must get what one has earned!

As for the communist way of life that, all real and personal property belongs to the state is nothing but a sweet delusion to keep the masses contended. It could never be implemented in its true form and would never be unless the angels, who don't have an ego and a family to raise, descend down from the heavens and take control of the govt.

 

[jamahir]

No problem. You are right. Love Jihad is because it's a one sided affair. Muslims want to marry other girls & convert them to theirs, but won't allow their girls to marry into others religion & convert. They will target the boy & his family physically, even kill them, if they see a Muslim girl with any other boy. They can also be honor Killing. Not only Hindus all others are voicing Love Jihad, because they want to protect their girls from converting, like how Muslims want to protect their girls & not allow conversion. Why do Muslims have to woo Non-Muslim girls, if they cannot respect & accept their beliefs & practices. I feel India should pass a law, if any Muslim boy marries a non-muslim girl, they should convert to the girl's religion, then the Love-Jihad will automatically stop.

Love Jihad or all hatred in the world for Muslims will stop, when religious & diplomatic Muslim leaders or Islamic countries pass a law that Muslims are free to convert to any religion if they wish. Can you do this. How many Muslim men will agree to this personally. Hindus can convert to any religion, so are other religions.

Honestly, I shall personally not allow my sister, daughter or any girl in my family or friend to marry a Muslim boy because it's a selfish religion & it's a religion enjoyed by men, not women. I have no problem or worries, if they marry any other religion. Just last month my Brother in Law married a Christian girl. We all get along so well. Both families enjoyed the wedding, religious customs & visits to each other's house. The girl still practices Christianity.

It is the sad truth that in India today, inter-religion marriages are difficult to manage. That is because India has regressed socially in the last 15-20 years.

The story in the first and the last vids that you posted, may seem surprising because they are from Kerala, a state ruled by socialists. Fact is that the Tableeghi Jamaat, the movement of Deobandi so-called Muslim reformists, has corrupted young Muslim minds who have become reactionary and regressive. But that is in response to the rise of the Hindutva right-wing among the Hindus.

The third vid ( the Kashmiri couple ), again is not surprising because the right-wing among Kashmiri Muslims has risen in the last 15 or so years. There are groups there like the Dukhtaraan-e-Millat, an all-female group of reactionary women who once threatened to throw acid on Muslim women who didn't cover their faces with a full burqa. You can imagine the reaction to inter-religion marriages in such an environment.

And there is the fact of more young Muslim women in India adopting the burqa and being reactionary than in the previous decades. That explains why there are less number of Muslim-woman-Non-Muslim-man couples.

I support inter-caste and inter-religion marriages in India. This should be through a constitutional amendment and ruling by the Supreme Court.

You cannot assign a time period to Islam and Quran ....... the more we progress the more we are closer to understanding the truth. It is just the matter of better understanding ........

You, sir, are deep within a Islam trance. I can understand that. I ask you to think outside of the box.

Free market principle, as known as capitalism, is the sole reason of all the technological and scientific advancements in the world. Capitalism is just the economics side of natural selection. Do you know about natural selection?

How about the USSR which was not just a military super-power but also a space power??

All countries need capitalism to advance. Or they would just lack behind like Venezuela and North Korea.

Venezuela is target of a CIA plot.

DPRK, despite sanctions, has managed well on the military side, and I would say on other aspects of a welfare state.

Religion Islam comprehensively deals and Chenalizes the human nature and instincts towards positive ways hence, emphasizes on the rules of equity in human affairs . One must get what one has earned!

As for the communist way of life that, all real and personal property belongs to the state is nothing but a sweet delusion to keep the masses contended. It could never be implemented in its true form and would never be unless the angels, who don't have an ego and a family to raise, descend down from the heavens and take control of the govt.

I understand what you say - that humans as a race cannot be expected to be all-good all of the time and that Islam provides for a safe compromise between the non-angelic side of humans and an ideal vision of humanity.

But let us think of a thought experiment of a case where a human society has be built from scratch - like Elon Musk's idea of the settlement of Mars. Say a hundred people. What kind of political, social and economic system should be created for such a society.

 

[Divergent]

You’ve got to be compatible with the current world without deforming phrases. In any case Humans have free will and nothing should be enforced.

 

[El Sidd]

pdf reformin Islman now i see! and Indians have opinion on Islam! amazing world we live in!

Although religious discussions are not allowed in the thread but preachers of deen e ilahi have a seemingly free hand here.

 

[newb3e]

Although religious discussions are not allowed in the thread but preachers of deen e ilahi have a seemingly free hand here.

everyones a preacher on inter forums.

 

[SouI]

How about the USSR which was not just a military super-power but also a space power??

Where is USSR now? Oh..

Venezuela is target of a CIA plot.

AHUAHUAHUA!!! SOO the despair that has taken over that country HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING (!!) to do with the state having taken over private companies and then those state companies having gone bankrupt one by one DURING THE GOLDEN AGE OF VENEZUELA?????

SOOO, according to your genius mind, Venezuela was being targeted by CIA and that is why those companies went bankrupt? But then how do you explain that during that time Venezuela experienced their best EVER economic situation? That was due to CIA too??

DPRK, despite sanctions, has managed well on the military side, and I would say on other aspects of a welfare state.

And THAT is BECAUSE OF CAPITALISM, my friend! The current leader, Kim Jong Un, is a pure capitalist! Before him, his father and grandfather actively applied communism, literally.

PRIVATE PROPERTY WAS, AND STILL IS, FORBIDDEN! DOING PRIVATE BUSINESS, BUYING AND SELLING THINGS, ARE STILL, at least on paper, BANNED!!

The reason economists recently started to calş North Korea "a better place to live for a child than India" is because the current leader stopped the enforcement of laws!

People DIED, MILLIONS OF THEM, DUE TO STARVATION!

THAT IS BLOODY COMMUNISM FOR YOU!

East asians have the highest IQ points all over the world, at about 120 IQ points. To compare the average IQ of my nation, Turkey, is about 90 points.

That means an average North Korean has about 33% (!!!) more intelligence than an average Turk!

Look at Turkey, see it experiencing mass starvation or things like that? No! Even with an average IQ of 90 points and at a university graduation rate of about 10% we still ARE ABLE TO HAVE a GDP per capita of about $12.000!

Now think about what kind of lives North Koreans would have if only they had the chance to compete in free-markets, capitalism!

Capitalism is the only solution.

 

[El Sidd]

everyones a preacher on inter forums.

The deen i ilahi Azadists scums are a cancer to this forum which may lead PTA to ban this forum.

 

[Nalini]

Any injustice Muslim faces or if they feel offended by somebody’s religious remarks or if any Muslim girl marries a Non- Muslim this is what happens in Kerala. They will go on ransacking not only the family who offended them the entire Hindu or Christians around will be targeted. And you expect Non-Muslims not to revolt. See how barbaric these mob is damaging innocent people's property for no mistake of theirs.

No Muslim will voice or come to say anything against these Fatwas & attacks made when a Muslim girl marries a Non-Muslim. Why

It is the sad truth that in India today, inter-religion marriages are difficult to manage. That is because India has regressed socially in the last 15-20 years.

The story in the first and the last vids that you posted, may seem surprising because they are from Kerala, a state ruled by socialists. Fact is that the Tableeghi Jamaat, the movement of Deobandi so-called Muslim reformists, has corrupted young Muslim minds who have become reactionary and regressive. But that is in response to the rise of the Hindutva right-wing among the Hindus.


The third vid ( the Kashmiri couple ), again is not surprising because the right-wing among Kashmiri Muslims has risen in the last 15 or so years. There are groups there like the Dukhtaraan-e-Millat, an all-female group of reactionary women who once threatened to throw acid on Muslim women who didn't cover their faces with a full burqa. You can imagine the reaction to inter-religion marriages in such an environment.


And there is the fact of more young Muslim women in India adopting the burqa and being reactionary than in the previous decades. That explains why there are less number of Muslim-woman-Non-Muslim-man couples.


I support inter-caste and inter-religion marriages in India. This should be through a constitutional amendment and ruling by the Supreme Court.

Kerala Muslims do portray themselves as very liberal, reformers, moderate & respecting others. But then there are Madrassas, Strict Islamic rules for girls in schools, monitoring Muslims especially Girls behavior. You will see the real tolerance when incidents happen. Same tolerant people will all be loud & go haywire, if anything is done to a muslim by others.

And you are wrong, this is not in response to the rise of Hindutva right wing. It’s the other way. Hindutva right wing has taken over due to the selfish oppressive behaviour of Muslims & it’s recent, because we can’t feel terrorised in our own country. Honestly ask anybody – till few years back we used to feel fear when we see Muslims in group or even entering Muslim areas - be it a Hindu, Christian, Buddhist, Jain, Sikh. But these things are changing after the present BJP Government, the same fear they used to inflict on others is coming back to them. Now you see lot of Muslims talking about unity, brotherhood, peace. This is exactly what’s happening across the world. The west especially has been very accommodative of every racial & religious person unlike many Muslim countries who don’t give any freedom or citizenship & grave Human right & Labour law violations & nobody can voice it. So everybody try to put the blame on RSS & BJP. No, the Hindus becoming non-violent is very recent. Leave the west, what do you say of Myanmaar, Sri Lanka, Thailand. And nobody talks of China.

If you want to see peace, respect & Love for Muslims, This is the kind of behaviour we expect from Muslims. BJP MLA celebrated Ganesh Pooja with Muslim women.

But then again you will have same fellow Muslims, who will get a fit & call them Kafirs, an insult to Islam & attack such progressive people in the name of Shirk.

Women are more tolerant, but it’s the men who terrorise these Muslim women. Even they will not put up with oppression for long. The generation is changing. You can’t live in 1700 & 1800’s. This is 21st century. It’s the muslim men & the religious organisations/ leaders worldwide, who need to change the teachings to fit in this century & modern world. It’s an online era, you can suppress people with rules & laws, but you can’t stop people’s thoughts & exposure in this digital world. One day there will be a revolution to voice the oppression. This is truth. Muslims have to accept it without getting offended & attempt for change. Only then there will be peace & prosperity. I have lot of Muslim friends, I have no problem with people but I get angry when they start showing their oppression against their women.

 

[mike2000 is back]

How is 'allowing muslim women to marry nonmuslim men' an 'extreme unislamic law'..?

Huh..... The other guy has a point. Allowing a Muslim woman to marry a non Muslim man is forbidden in Islam if I'm not mistaking. So a Muslim /Islamic country going against that law so blatantly is definitely unislamic if we look at it well, and it can even be considered EXTREMELY unIslamic depending on which religious side you fall under i suppose. You have to know that religion is quite patriarchal in general, so if you accept a religion you also have to accept its teachings I suppose (whether they are fair or not) . That's another fact

If a country wants to make man and woman equal whereby they both abide by the same laws and rules, then that country has to cast religion aside totally from government/state/public life etc like I said before. Since the moment you have a so called Islamic or religious government/country who starts cheery picking some laws suitable to them that goes against their religious scriptures /holy book, then that government /country isn't a religious or Islamic state/country anymore, so why pretend?

Where is USSR now? Oh..


AHUAHUAHUA!!! SOO the despair that has taken over that country HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING (!!) to do with the state having taken over private companies and then those state companies having gone bankrupt one by one DURING THE GOLDEN AGE OF VENEZUELA?????

SOOO, according to your genius mind, Venezuela was being targeted by CIA and that is why those companies went bankrupt? But then how do you explain that during that time Venezuela experienced their best EVER economic situation? That was due to CIA too??


And THAT is BECAUSE OF CAPITALISM, my friend! The current leader, Kim Jong Un, is a pure capitalist! Before him, his father and grandfather actively applied communism, literally.

PRIVATE PROPERTY WAS, AND STILL IS, FORBIDDEN! DOING PRIVATE BUSINESS, BUYING AND SELLING THINGS, ARE STILL, at least on paper, BANNED!!

The reason economists recently started to calş North Korea "a better place to live for a child than India" is because the current leader stopped the enforcement of laws!

People DIED, MILLIONS OF THEM, DUE TO STARVATION!

THAT IS BLOODY COMMUNISM FOR YOU!

East asians have the highest IQ points all over the world, at about 120 IQ points. To compare the average IQ of my nation, Turkey, is about 90 points.

That means an average North Korean has about 33% (!!!) more intelligence than an average Turk!

Look at Turkey, see it experiencing mass starvation or things like that? No! Even with an average IQ of 90 points and at a university graduation rate of about 10% we still ARE ABLE TO HAVE a GDP per capita of about $12.000!

Now think about what kind of lives North Koreans would have if only they had the chance to compete in free-markets, capitalism!

Capitalism is the only solution.

You are wasting your time. To some people anything assovcated with the West is wrong or Evil and shouldsbe despised. This is due to their resentment of the West. They don't know that's the wrong way of looking at things.

 

[xenon54 out]

Huh..... The other guy has a point. Allowing a Muslim woman to marry a non Muslim man is forbidden in Islam if I'm not mistaking. So a Muslim /Islamic country going against that law so blatantly is definitely unislamic if we look at it well, and it can even be considered EXTREMELY unIslamic depending on which religious side you fall under i suppose. You have to know that religion is quite patriarchal in general, so if you accept a religion you also have to accept its teachings I suppose (whether they are fair or not) . That's another fact

If a country wants to make man and woman equal whereby they both abide by the same laws and rules, then that country has to cast religion aside totally from government/state/public life etc like I said before. Since the moment you have a so called Islamic or religious government/country who starts cheery picking some laws suitable to them that goes against their religious scriptures /holy book, then that government /country isn't a religious or Islamic state/country anymore, so why pretend?


You are wasting your time. To some people anything assovcated with the West is wrong or Evil and shouldsbe despised. This is due to their resentment of the West. They don't know that's the wrong way of looking at things.

Dude stop Lawrencing.

 

[I.R.A]

He will also 'study' Quran and 'understand' just like you all do, and then come to this own conclusion /interpretation /version, joining one of the already many views with their own interpretation. Becoming just another statistic. Lol

Approaching Quran with an open blank mind may amaze and surprise people........ What lies beneath the conventional cover....... the original Islam may totally be different than what we Muslims portray and convey to the rest of the world. Understanding Quran with preconceptions and preconceived beliefs will only make one deduce wrong meanings and interpretations. That is why I strictly believe Quran doesn't need anyone's interpretation; it interprets itself.