@Zulkarneyn @KediKesenFare @Selim I First of all can I say I find the subject of this thread exciting. The issues you raised are profound and will involve all Muslim's from across the world to face at some stage or another. These are crossroads that I find myself familar with. The answers will decide the destiny of a good chunk of humanity.
As a intro I would like to declare that I have been a 'Kemalist' from young age. Indeed when I read about Kemal Ataturk in my 20s I was bought. However over the years as I have got older and in particular last few years perhaps as a function of age and increasingly conservatism that tends to creap in I have began to feel uncomfortable with some of his legacy.
I reiterate I still think Kemal Ataturk was needed for his time and indeed he is great but like a poster mentioned here no human being is infallible.
The problem I see is
Kemalism is opposite of
Islamism. Both are extremes. The real Gordion knot we need to untangle is how to achieve the balance between the two. I have to admit thus far I have read widely but this goal remain elusive.
Let's move away from the theory and look at something practical. Take for example adultery. This is a example (along with few others) where I have been having my doubts about Western legal concepts. If I drive my car without insurance I commit serious criminal offence. If I park my car for few minutes next to a shop with yellow lines I will be fined. The reason are simple - a crime is
"act harmful not only to some individual or individuals but also to a community, society or the state" and since havimng no insurance might cause damage to others society has legislated that as a crime. In order to improve traffic flow and advance traffic safety we have parking fines. These are countless examples where the state restricts out freedom in order to create a safer, better and pleasant society.
However in the West no state will dare venture into restricting destructive human sexual behaviour. Let's take a test case. A man and women have a affair. Both are married. Both have children. The result of this affair will cause immeasurable pain to the spouses who have been cheated. If the marriage falls apart the children in both familes will suffer enormously. When the affair comes out it will cause internal conflict and possibly lead to violence in the household. A simple affair could lead to broken lives, broken financial structures. Police time might get wasted. Enormous legal bills will rise with the inevitable divorce proceedings.
Yet a person about to commit adultery would be more afraid where he parks his car then where he parks his pen*is. I have a brother who works in the social services and the toughest time he had was when working on the 'frontline' as case social worker. The amount of cyclical suffering he saw was beyond belief. There was one example where a women had left her husband with one child but had taken the other child to live with another guy. The husband was concerned that his one year old daughter was vulnerable to abuse as the guy she was with was dangerous.
Following protocols that require such reports to be investigated he and his colleague went to her address - a council flat. As they went in there was threatening looking Afro-Caribean. They went through the standard questions and all ticked okay. However as they left they felt terrible. When they went next day to the dad to tell him everything was okay, he pleaded for them to do something. He asked if they would like their kid left in the same surroundings. On further checks the women concerned had another child in social services care from a previous relationship. six months down the road the girl was taken off her because of concerns about her safety but the women was pregnent again.
This cost of this to society is enormous - welfare benefits. The council flat. The broken children who will grow to be petty criminals or drug addicts. The cycle of cost and suffering will continue. All data shows most children from droken families are less likely to get their basic education and more prone to crime. Yet the state will not do anything in terms of legislation that might try to restrict such behaviour or try to create more accountability. On the other hand the same state invests lot of energy into restricting my choice to park the car when arguably the negetive consequences of my parking are going to be minor in comparison to social breakdowns.
Another exmple is we have legal rights over our parents inheritance but we have no legal obligation to care for them. I might not see my dad for the next ten years but if goes then I have every right to running and gran his estate. All these are secular failings. I am not certainly advocating Saudi system or even religion like in Pakistan where the mullahs have reduced it to blasphemy, kaffir and beards. I think those countries could do with a dose of Kemalism. However here I am addressing some of the things that concern me about secular societies. How do we
marry the best aspects of Kemalism with conservative religious values and create a new way forward in what might be described as Islamic reformation?
And what
percentage of people think like you guys (Zulkarneyn/Kedikesenfare) in Turkey? A guess would do.
@Baybars Han @xenon54 Your guess also invited please.
Ps. This is great thread and I would ask the mods to please keep it under watch. We could have genuinly interesting discussion here touching some vital contours of life and societies we live in and the role of Islam.
