Enough is Enough

[AhsanAmin]

Musharraf should be tried for his military coup of October 1999 and all those who aided and abetted him should also be included as clearly mentioned under article 6 of the Constitution. Only then it will be seen that justice has been done.

We should have a Turkish style trial of "Army heroes" involved in the coup. Army there continued to make fun of public opinion for decades until they were tried en masse and the convicted were sent behind bars. Otherwise musical chairs game between Army and democracy will continue forever and our country and its people will continue to suffer. May be we should act decisively now because this trial would take place in our country sooner or later after more mayhems.

 

[BATMAN]

Otherwise musical chairs game between Army and democracy will continue forever and our country and its people will continue to suffer.

Again Musharraf is not being trialed for toppling the (so called) democratic regime of Mian Nawaz Sharif.
While Pakistan prospered, while PM was around and this is a fact.

 

[RAMPAGE]

^^ What an unlawful mind !!


A billionaire Musharraf paid no tax for years | Pakistan Defence

anyhow, probably the deal is already sealed, the Saudi FM broke the NRO3.

here: In a strong rebuff to former military ruler Pervez Musharraf, Defence Secretary Lt General (retd) Asif Yasin Malik said on Tuesday that the army had no stake in the treason indictment of the former president.

No love lost: Army has no stake in treason trial, says defence aide – The Express Tribune

p.s.

the guy seem to be a TuQ follower

I see you PTIans and all i see is the making of a new generation of Jialaas

It seems that our nation has decided to forever trust our corrupt and beyond repair politicians and political system.

 

[AhsanAmin]

I see you PTIans and all i see is the making of a new generation of Jialaas
It seems that our nation has decided to forever trust our corrupt and beyond repair politicians and political system.

I wrote a few lines on a different forum (Abdalians Facebook) and want to copy here as an answer to your questions

I never defended PPP's any government and they always gave democracy a bad name by their actions. They had worse form of typical third world populist policies that actually hurt most of the citizens in our country.

Democracy (in its ideal form) is about letting people decide their destiny for themselves. However democracy cannot be perfected in a few years. It must remain a process in evolution for the better. It is our responsibility to stress ourselves and take as much control of our decision making as possible. It is also our responsibility to identify what is collectively good for us and what is bad which requires education, knowledge, and wisdom and our discussion of major issues facing us promote this knowledge and wisdom. Democracy is good in principle but we must make efforts to make it better and rid our system of the problems we face towards better government.

Dictatorships are about total authority in a single or a few hands. And such a system has greater possibilities of going wrong.

Democracy could not take hold in our country and many of us fail to appreciate it since we have been ruled by military dictators for most of the time. Those dictators supported their favorite landlords and other politicians and when the dictators were shown the door, the people supported by those military dictators took control of democracy since they had assumed wealth and power. It always took our country a long time to keep good politicians and get rid of the bad ones through a long democratic process after the end of military rule.

We have to discuss national issues to form intelligent opinions and then try to stress ourselves to our governments. It is much easier in a democratic society. And let us find out problems in our democratic system and try to identify ways to solve those problems.

 

[RAMPAGE]

I wrote a few lines on a different forum and want to copy here as an answer to your questions

If you study the Islamic point of view of politics, you'll find out that Islam doesn't give us a specific system for electing the Head of an Islamic State. Thus an Islamic state can have any political system needed to govern the state for example democracy and monarchy. The implementation of Khilafat is not Faradh on muslims but it is necessary for an Islamic State to implement Shariah.

As long as we don't have a true Islamic constitution which can deliver justice to the weak and question the strong, neither democracy nor any other political system can work in Pakistan.

@Azlan Haider

 

[AhsanAmin]

As long as we don't have a true Islamic constitution which can deliver justice to the weak and question the strong, neither democracy nor any other political system can work in Pakistan.

These (Islamic) principles are universally accepted as good among all humans (nations) and in all cultures and religions. We can stress them in our democracy. And it should be easier if we acknowledge ourselves as good Muslims and think this is actually teaching of Islam. Do we need an Islamic system to be Muslims?

 

[Panther 57]

I am against the Ghaddari case because this looks stupid to call your general a Ghaddar but he did dishonor his oath to protect Pakistani constitution for that he should be held accountable,[/quote
There is no Constitution without state. It is responsibility of Armed Forces to defend state. If choice is between constitution or state. AF will always go for state. This is what happened when a sitting PM committed treason by asking pilot of the aircraft carrying sitting COAS to land in a hostile country. Furthermore, he abrogated constitution by endangering life of more then 250 people on board that aircraft; it is the responsibility of government (according to constitution) to ensure safety and security to every citizen of Pakistan. Thus became traitor under Article 6.

Currently Gen PM is being tried for treason for imposing emergency, which is with in constitutional rights of the President.
@batmannow

The implementation of Khilafat is not Faradh on muslims but it is necessary for an Islamic State to implement Shariah.

Incorrect.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Incorrect.

We can debate on the topic.

 

[Panther 57]

We can debate on the topic.

I will look forward for your reason for declaring Khilafat as mandatory. Yes it was adopted by muslims of arab after Holy Prophet, but it is in now way madatory to implement Shariah.

 

[M. Sarmad]

@RAMPAGE
A true Islamic constitution is essentially theocratic . Islamic democracy is unable to comply with UN declaration of human rights .
Interestingly a dictatorship or monarchy is not un Islamic , but a secular democracy is ..........

 

[Zarvan]

Enough is Enough

Dr. Zafar A. Bokhari

Pakistan Army Must Protect Pakistan’s Honest Leaders not Looters

Taking an Army COAS to court as "Ghaddar" is enemy agenda. First Ex CJ’s one sided decision of July 2009, without hearing Musharraf as defendant is absolute wrong.

Biased attitude of courts may not do justice but any strong warning to Nawaz can stop the matter. Constitution was changed by politicians many times specifically keeping Musharraf in mind in 18th amendment and changing wordings of Article 6 are biased.

Civil politicians have changed constitution for personal benefit, personal powers, and for Ex Army General. They have blown Emergency matter out of proportion. Declaring Musharraf as criminal will benefit following forces.

• Indian elements and other enemy forces will be happy.
• Taliban and other extremist forces will be happy.
• Western media influenced by Indian propaganda will go after Pakistani Defense Forces.

Army must bring these issues in court and in media that Constitution was also abrogated by politicians when:

• Politicians used and changed Constitution for personal gains. BA condition was removed to benefit Zardari. It does not happen anywhere in the world. PPPP and PMLN had 2/3rd majority to bring this change.

• Third term PM was added to benefit Nawaz, also brought by politicians.

• 18th amendment is to benefit 5 people with more power in the name of provincial autonomy, those five people are: one PM and 4 CMs. They did not bring changes for the benefit of people.
• Strong City Governments were never created through Baldiati Elections which is part of constitution. All political parties are responsible of violating this clause.
• CJ Iftekhar did not follow Judge’s Reference under 209 and took matters on road which caused economic destruction and destabilization. Compare Musharraf era than 2013 of democrats’ deliverance?
• Musharraf was denied fair election participation while all corrupt, defaulters, and fake degree holders were allowed to contest election. It was biased judiciary who banned Musharraf for no reason rather banning lifetime. a clause does not exist in law. This is clear bias of judiciary against any Army person.
• Constitution was changed and modified many time by politicians and NEVER by Army and Defense Forces.
• By not following Article 38 is also Ghaddari but no politicians has been disqualified.

It was CJ Iftekhar, Judge Ramday, & Aitzaz who destroyed a growing economy in 2007 and did not follow law regarding reference against CJ through Supreme Judicial Council. Instead they brought people on roads.

Pakistan was very democratic having City Governments at Tehsil level under Musharraf. Now Pakistan has civilian dictators without City Governments.

People of Pakistan have to think honestly and objectively. Change Pakistani democracy to modern democracy of 21st century, not this rotten 1850s British system which does not exist even in UK.

Constitution must be changed for 21st century democracy:

• Presidential form of government elected directly by people.
• Must have strong City Government at Tehsil level by transferring DCs & ACs budget to elected Mayors with full Police powers. Musharraf introduced this system which was abolished by so called democrats.
• Creating 35+ provinces with elected governors by replacing commissioners. There is no State or Provincial Government anywhere in modern democracies.
• Abolish CM positions and ministers. Money saved can be spent on development and education. This will be real democracy which has brought economic growth, prosperity, and security in countries that have adopted this system.

Suggestion: Since Musharraf has no corruption charges, neither he has large Bank Loans like Nawaz & Zardari. Therefore all retired Army personnel come under APML and contest elections as Mayors, Governors, and President. I am sure they will run and manage the country far better than these looters.

Pakistanis living in North America and Europe will support that move, In-sha-Allah.

Dr. Zafar A. Bokhari

Chicago State University
@batmannow @Leader @BATMAN @Secur @Alpha1 @Aeronaut @jaibi

Musharraf is the reason Zardari came back Musharraf is the reason for all the bloodshed going on in Pakistan since Army entered Tribal areas this traitor is the reason for MQM mass murdering people in Karachi for past decade load shedding gift was first given by him

 

[RAMPAGE]

I will look forward for your reason for declaring Khilafat as mandatory. Yes it was adopted by muslims of arab after Holy Prophet, but it is in now way mandatory to implement Shariah.

I never declared Khilafat as mandatory. Muslim scholars from all four school of thought agree that implementation of Shariah is mandatory.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Musharraf is the reason for all the bloodshed going on in Pakistan

And we thought that TTP and Mullah`s Islam were the reasons behind all the bloodshed going on in Pakistan

 

[Panther 57]

I never declared Khilafat as mandatory. Muslim scholars from all four school of thought agree that implementation of Shariah is mandatory.

What else is needed to prove that you mentioned it is mandatory to implement Shariah. There are 72 school of thoughts, not 4 and an opinion or idea generated 100s of years after demise of Holy Prophet does not become part of Islam.

 

[M. Sarmad]

an opinion or idea generated 100s of years after demise of Holy Prophet does not become part of Islam.

The day we are able to understand this , will be the day of deliverance .