Emboldened militants set sights on Peshawar

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I am suprised that so many think that decisions announced are go step - in fact the most significant thing in these discussions and decisions is that Mr. gen. Kiyani is to be made a fall guy for this govt.

Its a valid argument, and the thought did cross my mind.

There could be two ways to look at this, as Araz articulated.

1. The politicians have no clue as to what to do, and are more intent on getting even with Musharraf, and therefore in the process making a scapegoat of the Army.

2. The Army and the GoP know what direction this is going in, and the current lawlessness is an attempt to play the dialog card out to satisfy the local constituency of the delusional Awam, while also perhaps extracting concessions and aid from the US.

I am not sure either is a good option, though I would prefer 2 over 1, since it would atleast indicate that those in charge were aware that the problem could not be solved without resorting to politically unpopular actions.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

AFP adds: “Some of the dead were shot and some had their throats slit,” Marwat said, adding they were among some 30 tribesmen kidnapped by the militants a day earlier. The men’s hands were tied behind their backs and the corpses left in a drain by a roadside, security officials said.

A spokesman for the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan, the militant group that Mehsud heads, claimed responsibility for killing the 22 and said they would soon decide the fate of the other eight.

“The men we killed were involved in thefts and robbery and had unleashed a reign of terror on the people. They were being patronised by the government,” spokesman Maulvi Omar told AFP by telephone. “The government should not intervene in the current situation, otherwise peace talks would be seriously undermined,” he said.
Militants kill 28 peace committee members

One has to wonder at the irony of Maulvi Omar's statement - "the peace talks will collapse, if the government acts to maintain peace".

Is such a peace worth anything?

Remember that these people were also demanding that the GoP not meddle in their activities across the entire country! We are already seeing them at the gates of Peshawar, so is the GoP also supposed to "not intervene" when people are kidnapped and slaughtered in Peshawar, Islamabad, Lahore and Karachi?

At least The News (Jang) chose to call the perpetrators Taliban militants in today's edition, and even mentioned B Mehsud, rather than the more generic and anonymous "extremists" it used yesterday.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

As had been mentioned by many on this forum including AM, peace talks with the terrorists always failed to fructify and instead allowed them to regroup, refit and relaunch themselves.

This is audacious.

They have to be stopped at all cost.

 

[maqsad]

Well if anything this thread and the other thread about 22 dead peacebrokers goes to show that the word Taliban does not mean a thing and serves no purpose except to cause confusion. Every tom dick and harry in the world seems to have "their taliban" killing and blowing things up for different reasons. You may as well use the word militant rather than taliban because there are so many different varieties of this elusive taliban breed that mentioning them always causes confusion unless their backers are also mentioned.

If we consider taliban and militant to mean the same thing this thread is still lacking a vital portion because it does not quite address WHO it is backing these militants. Nobody just puts on a tshirt with "militant" or "taliban" and then starts blowing things up and taking places over, they all have very organised, well planned and well financed backers somewhere. It is folly to think these people are just randombly behaving the way they are behaving...who are the puppetmasters?!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Well if anything this thread and the other thread about 22 dead peacebrokers goes to show that the word Taliban does not mean a thing and serves no purpose except to cause confusion. Every tom dick and harry in the world seems to have "their taliban" killing and blowing things up for different reasons. You may as well use the word militant rather than taliban because there are so many different varieties of this elusive taliban breed that mentioning them always causes confusion unless their backers are also mentioned.

If we consider taliban and militant to mean the same thing this thread is still lacking a vital portion because it does not quite address WHO it is backing these militants. Nobody just puts on a tshirt with "militant" or "taliban" and then starts blowing things up and taking places over, they all have very organised, well planned and well financed backers somewhere. It is folly to think these people are just randombly behaving the way they are behaving...who are the puppetmasters?!

Maqsad,

Questions regarding the financing and support of these groups are valid, but that does not take away from the need to deny these groups freedom to operate and havens where they can expand and strengthen.

Pakistan can ask questions about financial support, but whats the point, when we aren't even acting against them?

 

[maqsad]

Maqsad,

Questions regarding the financing and support of these groups are valid, but that does not take away from the need to deny these groups freedom to operate and havens where they can expand and strengthen.

Pakistan can ask questions about financial support, but whats the point, when we aren't even acting against them?

Because it is just as important to know where and why everything originates from. If you know the source then you can determine if you can kill the source along with its spawn, kill the spawn and ignore the source, or kill the source and watch the spawn dissipate and of course wipe both the source and the spawn off the face of the earth if possible.

Knowledge and action are two entirely different spheres of operation. Even if there is military inaction this certainly does not mean the masterminding mischief makers should not be tagged. Ignorance is not bliss here, it's a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Because it is just as important to know where and why everything originates from. If you know the source then you can determine if you can kill the source along with its spawn, kill the spawn and ignore the source, or kill the source and watch the spawn dissipate and of course wipe both the source and the spawn off the face of the earth if possible.

Knowledge and action are two entirely different spheres of operation. Even if there is military inaction this certainly does not mean the masterminding mischief makers should not be tagged. Ignorance is not bliss here, it's a disaster waiting to happen.

I am not saying that the supporters should not be tagged, but the fact of the matter is that the "spawn" will have to be killed now or later, and we can tag the puppeteers far better if we at least act like this is a problem.

At this point, with doing nothing, people might be justified in asking whether we even given a damn about what the Taliban do in Pakistan. The GoP needs to show resolve, go after these thugs and also raise hell about that narco state and its drug lord adminsitration on our Western Border.

The spawn is what is causing direct harm to the State, we cannot wait to build a case against the sponsors, and then wait in the hope that we can convince the world to act against that sponsor and stop its activities. The spawn needs to be addressed now.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Peace had its chance​

STRONG and decisive action is needed without delay for the situation is spiralling out of control. Baitullah Mehsud captured and then withdrew from Jandola at will, setting houses ablaze and killing pro-government tribal leaders by the dozen. After fresh clashes in Swat that left at least 10 dead on Tuesday, the peace deal struck in May with Fazlullah’s Taliban now exists largely in name. Eight drivers who were part of a food convoy were found dead in Kurram Agency on Monday, 17 paramilitary personnel were kidnapped on Sunday night in Khyber Agency, and there are reports too of the Taliban meting out summary justice and executing ‘criminals’ in Orakzai. Even the NWFP capital is no longer safe from the rampaging Taliban and it is feared that threats to shopkeepers in Peshawar and the abduction last week of members of the Christian community may be a sign of far worse things to come.

Besides the death and destruction seen in the past week or so, what is perhaps most chilling is the consummate ease with which militants are going about their business. Their operations have shifted up a gear, possibly to exploit the chaos that passes for governance in Islamabad these days. At the same time, this latest spate of violence in the tribal belt may also be linked to the recent surge in Taliban attacks across the border in Afghanistan. In any case this madness has to stop. Taking on the militants is of course a daunting task, one that has been attempted before without much success, but the state is left with no choice other than to crack down with all the resources at its disposal. An olive branch was held out to and accepted by both Mehsud in Waziristan and Fazlullah in Swat, and that was the right thing to do. Talking peace not only offered another tactical option, it was in keeping with the spirit of democracy because many in the country favoured mediation over military action.

Peace had its chance but the Taliban blew it. True, there was a brief lull in the violence but the storm is now raging out of control. Maybe the militants were just buying time to regroup, as they did in North Waziristan in 2006. How, it may be asked, will the military option succeed where it has failed in the past. One, it is hoped that lessons have been learned from earlier mistakes, in the theatre of conflict as well as the corridors of power, and that the government will close ranks and gets its act together quickly. Two, we now have a full-time army chief who is not distracted by politics and can focus on the job at hand. Three, failure is not an option.

DAWN - Editorial; June 26, 2008

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Daily Times has been running editorials against the folly of negotiating with the Taliban for a while now, but it is interesting that papers like the The News and the Dawn (above) are also joining in the call for "enough is enough".

Does this represent a shift (finally) in the media's thinking? Will they take up the task of molding peoples opinions in support of the tough policy that is necessary to bring peace, that Muse lamented earlier?

Or will this be like the Lal Masjid - when the media were at the forefront of demanding that the State act and when it did, accused the state of murdering innocents.

This will not be a week or two long operation, it will go into months if not years. Will the media keep up that support?

Does the military and the GoP have any plan to get the media on board, explain their overall goals, and perhaps even look at embedding to gain trust and support for their side?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

State of siege​

Thursday, June 26, 2008

The report that the historic town of Peshawar could fall to militants is obviously terrifying. Worse still, it seems that despite meetings between the chief minister, top military officers stationed in the city and the adviser on interior, no one is ready to defend the city against a possible onslaught by the militant militias that stand ranged all around it. The foray by forces who took away 16 Christians recently from a locality in the heart of the city shows just how vulnerable it is. It is believed that militants, who have scored a series of victories in operations across the northern areas, may just make an attempt to seize Peshawar. The fall of the city, analysts believe, will bring other districts across the NWFP toppling down before militants as well. The resurgence of these forces is evident everywhere. After several weeks of calm, conflict between security troops and the local Taliban has been reported from Swat, where ten people have been killed. Indeed, each day stories come in of new aggression and new acts of brutality by these crazed men who wield automatic weapons and believe that Islam means burning down schools, attacking video shops or beheading people they suspect of collusion with the government.

The extent to which Peshawar, the once peaceful entry point to the northern areas, has changed over the last decade or so is also terrifying. Music, once integral to the culture of the city, has been banned. Folk artistes have been forced into penury, shops selling instruments destroyed. Women on some campuses have been forced into veils; many fear leaving their houses unescorted; schools for girls have been threatened and the relaxed traditions of bazaars where people sipped their tea in the many 'chai houses' dotted across them has given way to one of suspicion and anger.

The threat to Peshawar of course exposes the ineptness of government policy. Under Musharraf's 'enlightened moderation', even as the US declared him a key ally against terror, militancy grew everywhere. The new government has failed, despite some efforts, to do very much about it. Things in the FATA areas appear to be tumbling out of control – and the possibility of Taliban forces driving through Peshawar in trucks now stares us in the face. There is, quite obviously, no time to lose. If militancy is to be defeated, the strategies to do so must be put in place now. There is no space left to fumble or to ponder, and as a first step, a plan to defend Peshawar must be devised immediately before it is too late to prevent the frenzied armies of extremists marching in on the city.

State of siege
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

And this one from The News, which takes the expected dig at Musharraf, but nonetheless decries these "these crazed men who wield automatic weapons and believe that Islam means burning down schools, attacking video shops or beheading people they suspect of collusion with the government."

 

[maqsad]

I am not saying that the supporters should not be tagged, but the fact of the matter is that the "spawn" will have to be killed now or later, and we can tag the puppeteers far better if we at least act like this is a problem.

At this point, with doing nothing, people might be justified in asking whether we even given a damn about what the Taliban do in Pakistan. The GoP needs to show resolve, go after these thugs and also raise hell about that narco state and its drug lord adminsitration on our Western Border.

The spawn is what is causing direct harm to the State, we cannot wait to build a case against the sponsors, and then wait in the hope that we can convince the world to act against that sponsor and stop its activities. The spawn needs to be addressed now.

I agree with you that the spawn should not be ignored but you don't seem to appreciate how complex and delicate everything is potentially. Every time you hit at the brainwashed footsoldier grunts you lose public sympathy especially in western pakistan and amongst the more liberal, libertarian population all over include the eastern provinces. Every time you make a peace deal you gain public approval ratings by all but a few right wing militaristic minded people within the pakistani community and of course the right wing in the west.

So going all out on the footsoldiers is akin to playing checkers on a chessboard where the puppetmasters have already planned their moves in order to trap you into a checkmate. The mate in this case is a vertical partition of the state of pakistan where a big chunk of Balochistan, including gawador gets taken away and the GCC/Gawador/China energy and trade corridor is gone. Multiple other scenarios could be played out following this partition. The sponsors of terrorism have to be thought about and dealt with openly or covertly because my suspicion is that there is an almost endless supply of cannon fodder making the PR game much more critical than the actual battles. You cannot ignore either one of the two elements at any given time. Look at vietnam, there was no shortage of flesh and blood ready to die and the same scenario is looming over western pakistan on a smaller and much more complex scale.

 

[khanz]

they know who they are ,they know where they are they are they even meet with the media so do something !
stupid peace deals pakistan never learns these people will take a mile if you give them an inch time to grow some balls gop.

.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

On the issue of puppeteers, it is worth considering if these terrorists can operate without local support.

While the issue of foreign assistance is pertinent, local support also requires consideration to combat these terrorists.

 

[Awesome]

they know who they are ,they know where they are they are they even meet with the media so do something !
stupid peace deals pakistan never learns these people will take a mile if you give them an inch time to grow some balls gop.

.

Only Mushy could've done it. He didn't need votes.

Our public needs to support the government in an all out miltant extermination programme. No BS attached.

 

[kidwaibhai]

it is sad to say this but the public has not realized the menace of these monsters just yet. i think it will take a couple of spectacular attacks by these militants to truly convince the people that they are not someone that you can deal with. the public opinion was changing when attacks were at there highest but now i think because of some relative peace people again think that they think that they can talk to these freaks. unfortunately we have not yet reached that critical mass

 

[Interceptor]

I think this has gone far enough.

The bastards are starving and killing innocent people from a different sect in Kurram, killing peace committee members, abducting SF's again (17 yesterday) and have attacked SF's in Swat as well - and then they have the gall to say that "the peace deals are still intact".

There is nothing Islamic here, nothing pure, nothing worth having a "dialog" about.

What these miscreants did, will only shun them away from the other groups, the losses of innocent lives have been terrible, the GoP must keep its military as its final option, it looks terrible right now with the tribal peace committee being massacred. I fear this work was done by foreign elements lurking in Pakistan, more light should be put on this issue.

Dialogue is a perfect strategy AM, the GoP is separating the sheep from the wolfs, these incursions will happen we took part in the WoT, and our Army was pushed to fight a bloody war with the tribals.

The more we separate from dialogue the more you motivate them to pick up arms, it is important that we establish connections with the tribals, I would not throw "dialog" away when it only benefits miscreants. Dialogue is means of decreasing differences whilst war is not.