Elective Quran course approved for military schools

[TheCommander]

If not Ataturk, we would be mandate of either USA or Britain, thats the reality, has nothing with political stances, Ataturk still had strong opposition from the intellectual class who were thinking state should be under mandate of a super power there is no other way to protect territorial integrity, he barely gathered/influenced some people supporting him and managed that, majority of the intellectual class was hesitant.

What reality are you talking about? You are repeating whatever you were taught in the schools. I am giving the FACT, okay? I am giving you the examples of our history. I am telling you that OUR NATION IS NOT "ACiZ" TO REVEAL A LEADER WHEN THE NATION FACES SERIOUS PROBLEM AND A NEW STATE BECOMES NECESSARY. For example, look at the Seljuk Empire. When she collapsed how many new leaders and "beylik" revealed: Osmanogullari, Karamanogullari, Germiyanogullari, Saruhanogullari, Aydinogulari, Karesiogullari, Mentesogullari, Hamitogullari, Sahibataogullari, Esrefogullari, Alaiye Beyligi etc. In our history there are thousand example. Ataturk was a great leader he does not need to be deified. For you, our nation can be "aciz" it is your problem, but the reality is different. About history we were/are never taught how successful soldiers/leaders Marshal Fevzi Cakmak, Kazim Karabekir, Ali Fuat Pasha, Cerkez Ethem (you were taught he was a traitor, right? He fought against Greek and British invaders, but suddenly he became a traitor!!!), Refet Bele Pasha were. Listen to me kid, instead of playing game (it is you choice, I respect and don`t care as well), read and study a little bit history and see how glorious nation we are.

P.s: The discussion is already gone off the rails. So, try to stay on the topic.

 

[atatwolf]

What reality are you talking about? You are repeating whatever you were taught in the schools. I am giving the FACT, okay? I am giving you the examples of our history. I am telling you that OUR NATION IS NOT "ACiZ" TO REVEAL A LEADER WHEN THE NATION FACES SERIOUS PROBLEM AND A NEW STATE BECOMES NECESSARY. For example, look at the Seljuk Empire. When she collapsed how many new leaders and "beylik" revealed: Osmanogullari, Karamanogullari, Germiyanogullari, Saruhanogullari, Aydinogulari, Karesiogullari, Mentesogullari, Hamitogullari, Sahibataogullari, Esrefogullari, Alaiye Beyligi etc. In our history there are thousand example. Ataturk was a great leader he does not need to be deified. For you, our nation can be "aciz" it is your problem, but the reality is different. About history we were/are never taught how successful soldiers/leaders Marshal Fevzi Cakmak, Kazim Karabekir, Ali Fuat Pasha, Cerkez Ethem (you were taught he was a traitor, right? He fought against Greek and British invaders, but suddenly he became a traitor!!!), Refet Bele Pasha were. Listen to me kid, instead of playing game (it is you choice, I respect and don`t care as well), read and study a little bit history and see how glorious nation we are.

P.s: The discussion is already gone off the rails. So, try to stay on the topic.

In Turkey they would burn your tongue. Ataturk saved Turkey, nobody knows how other commander would have done, but people like Ataturk is not easy to find, he was an educated military man, if a religious freak took his place, I doubt we would won all the wars Ataturk won.

 

[TheCommander]

In Turkey they would burn your tongue.

Get lost, if you are not gonna make a serious discussion.

 

[A1Kaid]

No need to compare: how does religion improve anything for these soldiers? Will they have suprerior tactics?

The answer is: Nothing. Its just another step towards theocracy.

Who knows maybe religion can improve their fanaticism in battle, if a soldier believes he is fighting for God there is nothing he won't do.

 

[atatwolf]

Who knows maybe religion can improve their fanaticism in battle, if a soldier believes he is fighting for God there is nothing he won't do.

Not in the modern world. Tech, calmness and being determined is what matters.

Instead of giving Quran course they should give something that stimulates that. Quaran is something personal and what they should learn at home.

 

[TheCommander]

Who knows maybe religion can improve their fanaticism in battle, if a soldier believes he is fighting for God there is nothing he won't do.

I do not know for other religion, but in Islam, there are certain rules in which case you can kill the enemy and can`t kill the enemy. We have lots of example. for instance, during the battle of Dardanelles, our soldiers carried the enemies who tried to kill them.

A Turkish soldier carries an Anzac. It is also confirmed by commanders dairies that how our soldiers treated enemies.

 

[A1Kaid]

Not in the modern world. Tech, calmness and being determined is what matters.

Instead of giving Quran course they should give something that stimulates that. Quaran is something personal and what they should learn at home.

Well the course is elective so soldiers are not required to take it only at their choosing, they don't have to learn it if they don't want to.

To Turkish brothers like TheCommander.

Please do not waste your time arguing with these brainwashed Kemalists.

They live in their own deluded world and follow the CHP Kemal-Inonu ideology of the 1920s-30s, and are stuck in a time warp.

The democratically elected government of Turkey, the representatives of the Turkish people (whom around 50% of Turks voted for not including the other Islamic parties such as Saadet or BBP which makes it even more than 50%) are passing this law and there is nothing that the barkings of some frustrated and angry brainwashed Kemalists can do to change that.

Turkey is for Turks, and not for Kemalists.

Get used to that, if you can't then hard cheese.

Bengali be quiet you don't know anything about Mustafa Kemal and the vast respect nearly every Turk holds for him. He is considered the savior and founder of Turkiye.

 

[TurAr]

@Hammer-fist So according to you, we are not Turkish? As for the other BS you dropped here, i expect a harsh answer, but i won't bother

Btw, @TheCommander i very much like to see your answer to Hammer-fist.

Well the course is elective so soldiers are not required to take it only at their choosing, they don't have to learn it if they don't want to.

Please read the post #22

 

[TheCommander]

@TurAr

My friend I already articulated what I think at #154

Unfortunately, thread turned to flame war again and the topic again hit secularism/kemalism and religion. I really wonder when we really truly understand each other? Why for some extreme secular or extreme kemalist there is no place for religious people in the army or police or judiciary system? Likewise, why for the extreme religious people there should be no place in the same institutes for not religious or secularist etc.? If we continue to ignore each other or try be dominant in every place or cannot stand those who think different than us, how could next generations live together in peace and harmony?

For those who do not know our country well, let me tell you something. In our country there are some minority groups in both side who are extremist okay. For them, they must dominate the society or everyone must think, live as they wish or believe.

And I agree with @TurAr

There are many different types of Kemalists, and loving and respecting Ataturk does not necessarily make one a Kemalist. I believe vast majority of AKP voters are loving and respecting, or just respecting Ataturk.

And once again, this country belongs to everyone. Our grandparents fought together and beat the enemies shoulder to shoulder. But, no need any foreign invader today, we already fell out with each other and ready to expel one another. It seems we need a hundred year to learn how to live together.

 

[TurAr]

@TurAr

My friend I already articulated what I think at #154

I know bro, and i agreed with you on that, although it is the exact opposite what AKP trying to do and this is the reason why many of us opposing this regulation, as BronzePlaque said.

I was just expecting you to say you are disagreeing with this retard so that he would know he shouldn't stick his nose into other's business without knowing anything.

 

[TheCommander]

Bro, I am writing a paper at the same time I check the forum. I do not wanna repeat myself again and again. For those before write something, first read overall what was going on the thread.

 

[TurAr]

^

The good thing about Turks is the fact that, when its needed, we are putting our differences aside and being like them.

We just need to learn that it is always needed

 

[LegionnairE]

Enver Pasha also had a vision, a different one. He also had an army at his disposal. We can sit here and argue what would happen if Enver succeeded but the history is written. And in that history it was Mustafa Kemal who succeeded and made his visions come true. And Enver have failed.

Perhaps Enver should focus on his fvcking job and do not let his soldiers die in vein. Most people has dreams and ideas, not everybody is capable of making them the reality.

Shameful as it is the Turkish elite saw tha mandate as a way to salvation. Kemal had the balls to look at the strongest armada of the world and say "Geldikleri gibi giderler." Trans. "They go the way did they come."

A sane person would say "We are doomed" I personally think i would. The situation was indeed grim.

 

[atatwolf]

Enver Pasha also had a vision, a different one. He also had an army at his disposal. We can sit here and argue what would happen if Enver succeeded but the history is written. And in that history it was Mustafa Kemal who succeeded and made his visions come true.

Perhaps Enver should focus on his fvcking job and do not let his soldiers die in vein. Most people has dreams and ideas, not everybody is capable of making them the reality.

Shameful as it is the Turkish elite saw tha mandate as a way to salvation. Kemal had the balls to look at the strongest armada of the world and say "Geldikleri gibi giderler." Trans. "They go the way did they come."

Enver Pasha let himself and 90 000 strong Turkish youth into death for dreams that he could never achieved. I'm glad he died, because without his death, Enver Pasha would also be obstacle for Ataturk.

A sane person would say "We are doomed" I personally think i would.

That is shameful that you think that.

 

[LegionnairE]

That is shameful that you think that.

Oh please... like it was an easy thing.

Keyboard warrior.