Eid al-Adha: a time for Iraq to remember its war dead

[Malik Alashter]

Well, what is going on in Iraq is a big shame and I hope the responsible people both inside Iraq and outside will be punished in this life or in the hereafter. Most Arabs want to see a peaceful and strong Iraq like it once was. This time I just hope that it will be ruled by good rulers. But I am sure that Iraq will survive all this but I think that Iraq should still be 1 country otherwise if Iraq falls there is great risk of other Arab countries being divided and this will not be good I believe.

Well I'm all hope but what we see on the ground isn't promising for instance just few munites ago my sister told me about my nephew that he is fighting in the jurf alsaghar she said that he told her the residents of jurf alsaghar throw us with a stone and cuss us just imagine the extreme self-control that our soldiers preserve so they don't punish these residents.

the clerics and sunni politicians drove the sunni people to the extreme now they think they fight foreign invaders not iraqi soldiers who try to protect them from getting hurt now do you think with this insanity there is a hope for peace I don't think so.

 

[1000]

Do you agree with Malik.

Not completely, however the biggest decision lies in the hand of the locals where ISIS is, thus Iraq's/Syria's Sunnis, if they don't start against ISIS on a massive scale then no outsider will get rid of them, not even the US military, they worked with locals to oust ISI back 10 years ago. Maliki's fault when it comes to them was to dump the Sahwat by not paying them once he didn't need them anymore, this angered many but how large is Sahwat anyway to make that much of a difference. His other fault was not building a barrier on the Iraq/Syria border as you have on Iraq's border, it would have cut ISIS in 2 and this would never have happened. Still the IA soldiers in Mosul were mostly locals, Sunnis themselves. You can't expect people from Basra/Baghdad to go serve in Mosul daily and go back, it's mostly locals and they didn't put up much of a fight despite betrayal of commanders they can still fight like done elsewhere but I guess they knew ISIS wouldn't massacre them so they were given a choice and took the easy one..

Still you have people like Ali Hatem who will get his own people bombed by ISIS which they do, no one can deny it, Hatem will for his hatred with the government deny the existence of ISIS as he did on camera, same with the self declared Sunni Mufti who was residing in Arbil, Izzat al Douri who plegdged his support for the Islamic state as he said. None of those 3 would survive in ISIS land, they'd be executed, yet they have no problem supporting them because of their hatred against Maliki/Abadi/Baghdad gov. If a large percentage or even 40% of Sunnis have this mentality then it makes sense ISIS survives in those lands. So it's in their hands.

 

[al-Hasani]

Not completely, however the biggest decision lies in the hand of the locals where ISIS is, thus Iraq's/Syria's Sunnis, if they don't start against ISIS on a massive scale then no outsider will get rid of them, not even the US military, they worked with locals to oust ISI back 10 years ago. Maliki's fault when it comes to them was to dump the Sahwat by not paying them once he didn't need them anymore, this angered many but how large is Sahwat anyway to make that much of a difference. His other fault was not building a barrier on the Iraq/Syria border as you have on Iraq's border, it would have cut ISIS in 2 and this would never have happened. Still the IA soldiers in Mosul were mostly locals, Sunnis themselves. You can't expect people from Basra/Baghdad to go serve in Mosul daily and go back, it's mostly locals and they didn't put up much of a fight despite betrayal of commanders they can still fight like done elsewhere but I guess they knew ISIS wouldn't massacre them so they were given a choice and took the easy one..

Still you have people like Ali Hatem who will get his own people bombed by ISIS which they do, no one can deny it, Hatem will for his hatred with the government deny the existence of ISIS as he did on camera, same with the self declared Sunni Mufti who was residing in Arbil, Izzat al Douri who plegdged his support for the Islamic state as he said. None of those 3 would survive in ISIS land, they'd be executed, yet they have no problem supporting them because of their hatred against Maliki/Abadi/Baghdad gov. If a large percentage or even 40% of Sunnis have this mentality then it makes sense ISIS survives in those lands. So it's in their hands.

I actually agree with what you say on this front. But given the experiences in Iraq since 2003 I guess that they are fearful of revenge attacks too or the Iraqi military (which logically is now dominated by the majority - Iraqi Shia Arabs and Shias in general) will turn on them as revenge aided with Shia militias from Baghdad and the South who already fight alongside the national army.

As I see it this is mostly a political problem and power struggle that is caused by mostly political factors and religion (sects) are just used as fuel. All it takes is a powerful and INCLUSIVE Iraqi state and I believe that the radicals on both sides, which are still a small minority, we have to remember this, will be largely silenced.

I also believe that the locals in the ISIS controlled areas get too much blame. I mean they are on the forefront when it comes to fighting ISIS and sacrificing their lives for their region, people, Iraq etc. but on the same hand areas that have been under ISIS control for long are ironically more safer (no bombings etc.) but that is due to ISIS not bombing them anymore now when they are in control but also getting more radical. Anyway they could probably still do more.
Ali Hatem is a village idiot or at least acts like one despite being born in Baghdad and apparently being the Emir (Prince) of the Dulaim tribe. This tribe must be idiotic if they chose leaders like him. No offense to any Dulaimi reading this.

Anyway the danger for Iraq is the thought of Iraq being something of the past and reconciliation being impossible. This way hatred will only grow. Much of it comes down to strong state institutions and a strong leader. Sane clerics. To me it seems that there are many clerics in Iraq that the state do not control at all so they can say all kind of nonsense in public (both sects) without consequences.

For instance if a cleric in KSA started talking about killing all Shias or Sunnis he would lose his job and go to prison or be arrested or at least there would be instistutions. Now due to Iraq having weak state apparatuses every so-called cleric can spread hatred.

The Kurdish question or problem or whatever you will call it are not helping with the stability either. They need to solve it soon and stop paying Tarzani.

 

[1000]

I actually agree with what you say on this front. But given the experiences in Iraq since 2003 I guess that they are fearful of revenge attacks too or the Iraqi military (which logically is now dominated by the majority - Iraqi Shia Arabs and Shias in general) will turn on them as revenge aided with Shia militias from Baghdad and the South who already fight alongside the national army.

As I see it this is mostly a political problem and power struggle that is caused by mostly political factors and religion (sects) are just used as fuel. All it takes is a powerful and INCLUSIVE Iraqi state and I believe that the radicals on both sides, which are still a small minority, we have to remember this, will be largely silenced.

I also believe that the locals in the ISIS controlled areas get too much blame. I mean they are on the forefront when it comes to fighting ISIS and scarfing their lives for Iraq but on the same hand areas that have been under ISIS control for long are ironically more safer (no bombings etc.) but that is due to ISIS not bombing them anymore now when they are in control but also getting more radical. Ali Hatem is a village idiot or at least acts like one despite being born in Baghdad and apparently being the Emir (Prince) of the Dulaim tribe. This tribe must be idiotic if they chose leaders like him. No offense to any Dulaimi reading this.

Anyway the danger for Iraq is the thought of Iraq being something of the past and reconciliation being impossible. This way hatred will only grow. Much of it comes down to strong state institutions and a strong leader. Sane clerics. To me it seems that there are many clerics in Iraq that the state do not control at all so they can say all kind of nonsense in public (both sects) without consequences.

For instance if a cleric in KSA started talking about killing all Shias or Sunnis he would lose his job and go to prison or be arrested or at least there would be instistutions. Now due to Iraq having weak state apparatuses every so-called cleric can spread hatred.

The Kurdish question or problem or whatever you will call it are not helping with the stability either. They need to solve it soon and stop paying Tarazani.

Inclusiveness is the whole problem, the only reason inclusiveness in the Iraqi government keeps being repeated is because the constitution and governmental system was set up to function like that. It's like the Lebanese system. Iraq's president must always be a Kurd, PM Shi'a and parliament speaker Sunni. So you end up with 3 sides in conflict with one another, that's why I doubt there will be a solution until this will be overthrown and either a different system comes or some secular dictator will rule. Of course in this system there can be secular ( Sunnis & Shia's ) who have no problem with one another, but what is the chance of them coming to power when the majority of the large parties are religious parties, no chance. All they can do is sit on the sidelines and talk. Abadi from the Daawa party ( religious party ) seems secular, he lived, studied and worked in the west unlike Maliki so I doubt he still has a political religious agenda. But it takes time for people to realize that, also I barely see him in the news lately.

As for Syria they're in a much worse situation, the locals in the Euphrates region of Syria are weak and have no government supporting them, Al Shtat tribe experienced it first hand so can't blame them for doing nothing.

 

[al-Hasani]

Inclusiveness is the whole problem, the only reason inclusiveness in the Iraqi government keeps being repeated is because the constitution and governmental system was set up to function like that. It's like the Lebanese system. Iraq's president must always be a Kurd, PM Shi'a and parliament speaker Sunni. So you end up with 3 sides in conflict with one another, that's why I doubt there will be a solution until this will be overthrown and either a different system comes or some secular dictator will rule. Of course in this system there can be secular ( Sunnis & Shia's ) who have no problem with one another, but what is the chance of them coming to power when the majority of the large parties are religious parties, no chance. All they can do is sit on the sidelines and talk.

As for Syria they're in a much worse situation, the locals in the Euphrates region of Syria are weak and have no government supporting them, Al Shtat tribe experienced it first hand so can't blame them for doing nothing.

What I mean here with inclusiveness is Iraqi Shia and Sunni Arabs. After all what is the other solution? Total dominance by 1 group? This will lead only to more conflict. This inclusiveness could be arranged by giving greater autonomy to the regions. I am not sure if getting another dictator is the right solution? You need something to unite people with. Now the idea of Iraq is not something all Iraqis believe in anymore. This is a problem.

Well, Lebanon is somewhat more complex because if Iraq says goodbye to Kurdistan there are basically only 2 big groups left. If they can somehow find a common ground then that would be a good thing.

Also what I meant with inclusive was the army but I know that it already has a lot of Sunnis in it from officers to ordinary soldiers.

Most parties, especially Shia parties are religious, true, but many laws in Iraq since it was founded have always derived from Islam or were influenced by it. If they can unite on Iraqi nationalism and religion (Islam) this might work.

I mean what is your realistic solution? Get another strongman? Who? From which party? Which sect? Which ethnicity? How can he convince the one that is "different" from him etc.

Man, I really don't know, maybe what some say, it is better for Iraq to split in 3. On the other hand I doubt that this will solve much if anything. Then greater autonomy would be much better but it is up for the locals to decide that. We can only give our thoughts on this.

What is important is for peace to prevail.

 

[Malik Alashter]

because of their hatred against Maliki/Abadi/Baghdad gov.

Why dont name the things the way they are it's not the hate towards Baghdads gov it's their hate towards shea on top of that government.

See our Hypocrisy our problem.

I didn't mean no offend but that's what it is.

Because we keep flatter the others while that keep them thinking they are right. and that make them wonder why they give up if they are right.

 

[al-Hasani]

Why dont name the things the way they are it's not the hate towards Baghdads gov it's their hate towards shea on top of that government.

See our Hypocrisy our problem.

I didn't mean no offend but that's what it is.

Because we keep flatter the others while that keep them thinking they are right. and that make them wonder why they give up if they are right.

Let's just agree that the hatred is unfortunately mutual among SOME people. You need to find solutions and the crucial thing is to live in peace despite having differences. The problem in the Arab world and the ME as a whole is the logic of it either "being my highway or nothing". There is no tradition of win-win negotiations. One party always wants to trash the other completely and this approach creates extreme thoughts. Whether political or religious.

Malik, what do you tell to the thousands upon thousands of Iraqi Sunni Arabs in Iraq that have given their lives for Iraq? There are more of them than the Iraqi Shia Arabs. What about all those Sunni soldiers in the Iraqi army?

So what is your idea then? To split into 2 and then you will become an Iranian client state or try to become another Dubai or Kuwait? Is that really what you want?

Iraq is already influenced too much by it's neighbors and it is rarely positive influence. Splitting it will just make this job easier. After all you are both Iraqis are you not? Two different sects from the same religion even (!) should not make such a big fuss.

Anyway what is your plan for the Iraqi Sunni Arabs in the South? There are at least 1-2 million of them. Shall they be deported to "Sunnistan" or will they be allowed to stay in "Shiastan"?

 

[ResurgentIran]

Man, I really don't know, maybe what some say, it is better for Iraq to split in 3.

Iraq is already de facto split in 3.
Kurdistan, Shia enclave and an ISIS enclave.

 

[Malik Alashter]

Malik, what do you tell to the thousands upon thousands of Iraqi Sunni Arabs in Iraq that have given their lives for Iraq

All due respect to them absolutely they are pateriotics may Allah mercy their souls.

I don't have any thing about them do you Sunnis are free to enter sheaa cities while they absolutely have no worries of loosing their life we have nothing against them at all all we want is they accept us as we accept them as we share them power of ruling the country.

is that too much.

 

[al-Hasani]

Iraq is already de facto split in 3.
Kurdistan, Shia enclave and an ISIS enclave.

Only Kurdistan which is not Iraq. Rest of Iraq will be united all this is very clear. ISIS cancer cannot remain and will not be allowed to remain. The Kurds can remain in their landlocked, barren and tiny Kurdistan.

All due respect to them absolutely they are pateriotics may Allah mercy their souls.

I don't have any thing about them do you Sunnis are free to enter sheaa cities while they absolutely have no worries of loosing their life we have nothing against them at all all we want is they accept us as we accept them as we share them power of ruling the country.

is that too much.

I hope extremist so-called "Sunnis" and "Shias" learn to live in peace in the Arab and Muslim world so many Arab countries can become peaceful and also better leaders and less corruption, better education and bigger cooperation must happen and if this happens that will be very good.

So-called "clerics" that spread hatred should be punished and be locked in jails and rot there. They destroy the lives of young people, their families and the victims of terrorism. Anyway I believe the current problems in the Muslim and Arab world are a divine punishment.

In the near future I plan to visit Karbala and Najaf but also Samawah and Basra to see Uruk etc. All of those areas are very close to KSA anyway. When things calm down the GCC railway (planned one) should be connected with nearby Iraq so people can visit each other and family or extended family or friends.

@Malik Alashter

 

[1000]

Their plan is to have locals, so Sunnis who will be the main force to fight ISIS, re-establishing the national guard recruiting locals.

Sunni Reawakening in Iraq Hinges on National Guard - Bloomberg

Unlike the ad hoc Sunni Awakening militias, this time the U.S. envisions a structured National Guard that wouldn’t be fielded until members go through training.

Finally they realised training is more important then anything.

 

[al-Hasani]

Their plan is to have locals, so Sunnis who will be the main force to fight ISIS, re-establishing the national guard recruiting locals.

Sunni Reawakening in Iraq Hinges on National Guard - Bloomberg



Finally they realised training is more important then anything.

The locals have always been involved and at the forefront of the fight. Around 1800 "tribals" have after all lost their lives fighting ISIS this year alone.

I have always said that without the local support nothing can be done. Why Maliki was not paying the Sahwat etc. is a mystery for all.

Reestablishing the national guard would be good IMO. They can follow KSA's model with the SANG.

 

[1000]

The locals have always been involved and at the forefront of the fight. Around 1800 "tribals" have after all lost their lives fighting ISIS this year alone.

I have always said that without the local support nothing can be done. Why Maliki was not paying the Sahwat etc. is a mystery for all.

Reestablishing the national guard would be good IMO. They can follow KSA's model with the SANG.

Currently all known high commanders of Iraq have been dismissed.

The 4 highest

Ali Ghaidan
Abbud Qanbar
Muhammad Al Askari
Qasim Atta

Along with ~150 other high level commanders

I think the American advisers in Baghdad are currently doing the work of those above ( commanding IA ), they should introduce a new training program given by Arabic speaking coaches otherwise it won't work, then with capable soldiers they will have breathing room for other things as they'll be able to fight IS effectively.

 

[al-Hasani]

@1000

Another Fedayeen solely loyal to the state must see its light in Iraq once again.

Make it 30.000-40.000 big initially and upgrade as time progresses if necessary. ISOF is an elite unit anyway. Can't make those too big.

 

[1000]

@1000

Another Fedayeen solely loyal to the state must see its light in Iraq once again.

Make it 30.000-40.000 big initially and upgrade as time progresses if necessary. ISOF is an elite unit anyway. Can't make those too big.

Seems like it's true the locals are victims of this, they aren't welcoming IS, the only thing I don't understand is how they can roll into Sunni area's that easily whilst Shi'a areas have a lot of resistance to ISIS when both are against IS as the link shows, none of them are waiting to live under IS.

BBC News - Iraq crisis: 180,000 flee IS advance in Anbar, UN says