Egyptian Armed Forces

[vostok]

 

[Ceylal]

From the video and posted pictures, the difference between the Egyptian soldier and the Russian one is appalling....At least with the Russians, the Egyptians were allowed to participate instead of being spectators...

 

[Crocodile]

From the video and posted pictures, the difference between the Egyptian soldier and the Russian one is appalling....At least with the Russians, the Egyptians were allowed to participate instead of being spectators...

Wow, will you look at that. An Algerian trying to teach us how to be proper soldiers. And I thought I'd seen it all.

 

[Ceylal]

Wow, will you look at that. An Algerian trying to teach us how to be proper soldiers. And I thought I'd seen it all.

..we came twice and get your as...ses, out of the Jewish tukhas...I guess we know what we are talking about...To this day Egyptians haven’t learned a freaking thing from 73...

 

[Crocodile]

..we came twice and get your as...ses, out of the Jewish tukhas...I guess we know what we are talking about...To this day Egyptians haven’t learned a freaking thing from 73...

 

[Frogman]

Wow, will you look at that. An Algerian trying to teach us how to be proper soldiers. And I thought I'd seen it all.

Cey is an idiot but he is right on that first point.

 

[HannibalBarca]

@Frogman Any news about that T-90 manufacturing plant for EGY?

 

[Frogman]

@Frogman Any news about that T-90 manufacturing plant for EGY?

Nothing public.

Just going to have to wait and see next year.

 

[Crocodile]

Cey is an idiot but he is right on that first point.

Well, he's not absolutely wrong. I'm just not one to argue with a stupid troll. Oh well, back to my ignore list with him.

From a purely professional point of view. Even though my field of training was engineering (minimal introduction to infantry tactics, definitely no SF training), I could still spot some issues regarding trigger discipline, posture and spacing from our side. And also some assault rifle handling issues from both sides (don't know what you think, but I was taught not to handle an AK by the magazine or any exposed metal parts) . I would like to hear your comments on that.

 

[Frogman]

I would like to hear your comments on that.

I think you're talking about the photo I've attached here plus a couple of things from the videos. There's a couple issues here with skill at arms;

1) Firing positions

The ultimate goal is to build a stable firing position. Building that position is made obvious by the marksmanship principles.

A) The position and hold must be firm enough to support the weapon.

The Para to the far right gripping the magazine is guilty of not having a firm enough hold of the weapon. When he fires the rifle will move in the shoulder and in the front hand, he likely won't reliably hit whatever he's aiming at.

B) The weapon must point naturally at the target without undue physical effort.

The two Paras in the middle are guilty here. Being they're holding the rifle up to the target rather than adopting a more natural position. They may be able to hit whatever they're aiming at initially but the physical effort of doing so will eventually fatigue their arms and torso leading to missed shots.

c ) Sight alignment must be correct.

They're generally alright here.

D ) The shot must be released and followed through without disturbing the position.

This is generally going to be the one all but the two on the left get wrong. Not having a firm enough hold of the weapon and being in a bad position with the rifle not naturally pointing at the target will disturb the firers position after every round, meaning you have to build it up again.

You want to be reliably hitting a target consistently as an infantryman, if you have to build up your position after every round then you wont.

The guys with the most stable firing positions in this photo are the first and second from left. Although the second from left could sit down a bit more into the position.

But don't get too caught up in this, everyone may have their own little quirks. If it works for them that is fine but the issue is when you start seeing a lot of people repeating the same thing, then something isn't quite right with training and coaching.

2) Safety

This is the stuff that's usually part of weapon handling;

A) Trigger discipline

First thing you get taught when handling a weapon is trigger discipline. This one is sort of self explanatory, if you don't touch the trigger a round won't be fired whether on purpose or negligently.

We see a lot of these cases (even by SF dudes) here on this thread so something is definitely amiss.

In one of the videos from the Ex with the Russians you clearly see an Egyptian Para run into a room sort of panic and then negligently discharge into the floor. His safety was off (which is understandable if you're using an AKM to clear a room rather than something with a simple thumb/finger selector that allows you to keep your trigger finger free) and his lack of trigger discipline let him down.

B) Muzzle flagging/discipline

This one is sort of unavoidable, when on patrol or doing any real world firing there are instances where you are going to flag your buddies. Where it starts getting dangerous is if you already have poor safety training standards and are doing things where you're firing while on the move with others in front of you.

Plenty of examples from photos here and in the recent Russian Ex footage you see a fireteam of Egyptian Paras running and gunning in a single file with one and behind the other. A single trip (which is extremely common for any of you who haven't been in the military/LEO/aggressive camping/LARP) and we get an incident.

C) Safety discipline

Plenty of footage with Egyptian soldiers patrolling or on Ex with their safety off whilst not in contact with the enemy. If you're not about to use the rifle then your safety should be on.

D) Pointing the weapon at someone in jest

You just don't do it.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In terms of tactics we have another set of problems;

1) Fire and manoeuvre

Instances where Egyptian Paras are advancing single file over open ground without supporting fire, easy prey for the enemy. You can see from the footage the Russians are doing it properly, bounding in pairs or fireteams, one pair fires while the other pair bound forward and then they repeat till they get to the buildings.

The instance where the Egyptian Paras are running and gunning over open ground towards a building is both dangerous and ineffective.

You won't suppress an enemy with inaccurate fire which is about all you can do while running and you're advancing over open ground against an enemy that has both cover from fire and view.

2) Tactical spacing

You don't want to be bunched up or unduly spread out. 5-20m depending on the situation is usually recommended.

Less than 1m in instances with Egyptian Paras over open ground, against an enemy with mortars, grenade launchers, and machine gunners you're not going to have a pleasant time at all.

3) Room clearing

Examples where they are far too aggressive (Russians are too) and simply look like they're rushing into rooms rather than methodically advancing.

One example of training grenade being thrown into room and Paras from both nations following it in.

No attempt to "cut the cake" or methodically work your way around an entrance before entering a room or building. Also little attention paid to extreme sides of the room, appears some have been conditioned that the enemy will always be in a visible location near the middle of the room or in a convenient side spot.

I can't comment much on the Russians but there are instances where they completely blow past Egyptian Paras into rooms and buildings where they have no idea what is actually happening, sometimes splitting up from their own fireteams to do it. Not exactly a good look during a joint Ex meant to improve interoperability.

 

[Crocodile]

I think you're talking about the photo I've attached here plus a couple of things from the videos. There's a couple issues here with skill at arms;

1) Firing positions

The ultimate goal is to build a stable firing position. Building that position is made obvious by the marksmanship principles.

A) The position and hold must be firm enough to support the weapon.

The Para to the far right gripping the magazine is guilty of not having a firm enough hold of the weapon. When he fires the rifle will move in the shoulder and in the front hand, he likely won't reliably hit whatever he's aiming at.

B) The weapon must point naturally at the target without undue physical effort.

The two Paras in the middle are guilty here. Being they're holding the rifle up to the target rather than adopting a more natural position. They may be able to hit whatever they're aiming at initially but the physical effort of doing so will eventually fatigue their arms and torso leading to missed shots.

c ) Sight alignment must be correct.

They're generally alright here.

D ) The shot must be released and followed through without disturbing the position.

This is generally going to be the one all but the two on the left get wrong. Not having a firm enough hold of the weapon and being in a bad position with the rifle not naturally pointing at the target will disturb the firers position after every round, meaning you have to build it up again.

You want to be reliably hitting a target consistently as an infantryman, if you have to build up your position after every round then you wont.

The guys with the most stable firing positions in this photo are the first and second from left. Although the second from left could sit down a bit more into the position.

But don't get too caught up in this, everyone may have their own little quirks. If it works for them that is fine but the issue is when you start seeing a lot of people repeating the same thing, then something isn't quite right with training and coaching.

2) Safety

This is the stuff that's usually part of weapon handling;

A) Trigger discipline

First thing you get taught when handling a weapon is trigger discipline. This one is sort of self explanatory, if you don't touch the trigger a round won't be fired whether on purpose or negligently.

We see a lot of these cases (even by SF dudes) here on this thread so something is definitely amiss.

In one of the videos from the Ex with the Russians you clearly see an Egyptian Para run into a room sort of panic and then negligently discharge into the floor. His safety was off (which is understandable if you're using an AKM to clear a room rather than something with a simple thumb/finger selector that allows you to keep your trigger finger free) and his lack of trigger discipline let him down.

B) Muzzle flagging/discipline

This one is sort of unavoidable, when on patrol or doing any real world firing there are instances where you are going to flag your buddies. Where it starts getting dangerous is if you already have poor safety training standards and are doing things where you're firing while on the move with others in front of you.

Plenty of examples from photos here and in the recent Russian Ex footage you see a fireteam of Egyptian Paras running and gunning in a single file with one and behind the other. A single trip (which is extremely common for any of you who haven't been in the military/LEO/aggressive camping/LARP) and we get an incident.

C) Safety discipline

Plenty of footage with Egyptian soldiers patrolling or on Ex with their safety off whilst not in contact with the enemy. If you're not about to use the rifle then your safety should be on.

D) Pointing the weapon at someone in jest

You just don't do it.

Can't really add anything to your comments on the tactical part. After all, that was not my specialty. However, I'm really surprised by such basic things as firearms handling and safety being an issue. From my personal training and experience, this is one of the most comprehensively trained and strictly controlled topics in the military. I dealt with conscripts with little to no education who still were showing adequate firearms skills and discipline ,especially trigger discipline and safety which, believe it or not, are taken very very seriously. (Yeah, shocking I know)

All the topics you'd talked about in that first part are already covered by basic training. For such things to keep showing up in the media like that makes us all look bad and honestly I find no explanation for why they are an issue in the first place. Because, from my experience, they shouldn't be.

"When it comes to firing, always hold your firearm as you would a bird, hold it too loosely and it'll fly away, hold it too tight and you'll suffocate it. Always try to find a middle ground where you have a firm grip on your weapon while at the same time your body is in a state where it feels natural and relaxed" One of the lessons I still remember to this day from my training.

 

[The SC]

According to the #Korean Newspaper Global economic, The South Korean-Made K-9 Howitzer will be exported to #Egypt soon ,after the completion of signing both sides the final agreements related to the deal

http://m.g-enews.com/view.php?ud=20


[URL='https://t.co/vezLCQlsEI']K-9 Thunder self-propelled 155 mm Howitzer[/URL]

 

[Malik Alashter]

According to the #Korean Newspaper Global economic, The South Korean-Made K-9 Howitzer will be exported to #Egypt soon ,after the completion of signing both sides the final agreements related to the deal

http://m.g-enews.com/view.php?ud=20


K-9 Thunder self-propelled 155 mm Howitzer

These koreans really rival Japan and Germany

 

[Nile-Tiger]

During, and after, the Egyptian visit to south Korea... I think there were some rumors about assembling this howitzer in Egypt, and how that Egypt may prefer the South Korean option over other options, mainly because of the transfere of technology.

Also... Still waiting to hear any good and confirmed news about our interest inSouth Korean Corvettes and frigates. The same ofcourse goes to our deal with France, for the additional 12 Rafales (Any chance the numbercan be raised to 24 ???) and the GOWINDS, with any NH Hels and A-200 Egypt may be interested in.

I know how long arms dealsmevaluations and negotiations may take... But, I'm just too excited... We still have A LOT more to acquire... Specially in the Air force, and the Navy ofcourse.

Really hole ths Korean Howitzermay be the begining for a huge number of deals between Egypt and South Korea.

 

[Harpcore_lover]

During, and after, the Egyptian visit to south Korea... I think there were some rumors about assembling this howitzer in Egypt, and how that Egypt may prefer the South Korean option over other options, mainly because of the transfere of technology.

Also... Still waiting to hear any good and confirmed news about our interest inSouth Korean Corvettes and frigates. The same ofcourse goes to our deal with France, for the additional 12 Rafales (Any chance the numbercan be raised to 24 ???) and the GOWINDS, with any NH Hels and A-200 Egypt may be interested in.

I know how long arms dealsmevaluations and negotiations may take... But, I'm just too excited... We still have A LOT more to acquire... Specially in the Air force, and the Navy ofcourse.

Really hole ths Korean Howitzermay be the begining for a huge number of deals between Egypt and South Korea.

I think for a long term plan Egypt needs to look into Locally building stuff, jf-17 should be a decent option, but for the navy we are still lagging behind in terms in building and research and development.
Egypt doesn't posses the capabilities to build frigates, and it should have one so it can be self reliant and since our purchases are mostly now European I think egypt throw a lifeline for the German company thyssenkrupp by asking for the patent for the Meko, Egyptian navy should also not just ask for those dwarf subs that they been interested in (from some Eastern European company) but they instead should ask for the patent cause the navy is in serious need of modernisation and a long time viable plan instead of just short term acquisitios or else it 10 years we will be just buying and nor producing, noone knows what's gonna happen in 10 years.