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Egyptian Armed Forces

The weapon system is controlled from the turret, there doesn't seem to be much equipment in the cab of the HUMVEE at all.

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See hi-res pics here http://www.primeportal.net/hummers/dan_rowbottom/avenger/

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http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/cv/ada/Avenger.html

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http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/44-44/Ch1.htm

The system can take cues from external radar. Specifically via JTIDS:

Joint Tactical Information Distribution System

6-32. Joint Tactical Information Distribution System (JTIDS) is a jam resistant, secure data and voice communications system used for command, control, and identification. JTIDS provides FAAD C2I with a TADIL-J (link 16) capability to participate on the JDN. JTIDS class 2M radios are located at the divisional level in the Army Airspace Command and Control (A2C2) and at the battalion level in the ABMOC in support of FAAD C2I. The ABMOC and A2C2 use JTIDS to receive long range early warning, classification and identification from the JDN (i.e. AWACS). That data is then correlated with other external sources (i.e. Patriot) and organic sensors, and is then broadcast to the sensor C2 nodes in the battalion. JTIDS provides the ABMOC and A2C2 the means to transmit specific organic SHORAD air tracks (i.e. CM, UAV) to the JDN.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-01-11/ch6.htm

With a but of tweaking, it may be possible to have the Avenger turrets communicate with the ship's CMS.

On the regular Mistral's of the French navy:
Information from the ship's sensors is centralised in the SENIT system (Système d'Exploitation Navale des Informations Tactiques, "System for Naval Usage of Tactical Information"), a derivative of the US Navy's Naval Tactical Data System (NTDS). Problems in the development of the SENIT 9 revision contributed to the one-year delay in the delivery of the two ships. SENIT 9 is based around Thales' tri-dimensional MRR3D-NG Multi Role Radar, which operates on the C band and incorporates IFF capabilities. SENIT 9 can also be connected to NATO data exchange formats through Link 11, Link 16 and Link 22.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mistral-class_amphibious_assault_ship#Command_and_communications

The principal stumbling block in the Mistral negotiations—which formally began in October 2009—has been the inclusion of certain technological components and their potential production under license in Russia.

The components in question are the SENIT-9 combat management system and the SIC-21 command information system. In reality, however, the negotiations are centered on the SENIT-9. The aging SIC-21 doesn’t raise the same strategic concerns as the SENIT-9. But because of its use on France’s sole aircraft carrier, the Charles De Gaulle, the SIC-21 is a matter of prestige for the French. Many in the French military oppose its transfer to the Russians for reasons of national pride. The SENIT-9, however, would provide Russia with real advantages. Its operating modes are intended for coastal warfare and are designed to employ sophisticated anti-surface weapons and address “pop-up” air threats. Analogous systems have the capacity to track up to 1,000 targets simultaneously.

According to one of Russia’s foremost conventional arms experts, Ruslan Pukhov, the Mistral would be “blind” without the SENIT-9. He believes that Russia’s acquisition of SENIT-9-equipped Mistrals would give Moscow the capacity to receive “a mass of information.”
https://www.aei.org/publication/why-is-russia-buying-mistral-assault-ships-from-france/print/

France will transfer a number of sensitive technologies to Russia along with Mistral ships to be purchased by Russia, including the SENIT-9 tactical combat information system installed on the helicopter carriers.
http://tass.com/russia/724458

Avenger Mobile Air Defense System
Avenger air defense system is an automated, short-range very low level short range air defense (VSHORAD) system, capable of shoot-on-the-move air defense weapon. Avenger uses a turret equipped with eight ready to fire Stinger missiles in two missile pods.

The Avenger acquires, identifies, tracks and engages targets such as low-flying helicopters and fixed-wing aircraft, from a stationery or moving position. Avenger is capable of operation in day, night and adverse weather conditions. It can shoot on the move and be operated by remote control, up to 50 meters from the firing unit. Avenger uses passive sensors, it employs a turret mounted on a tactical vehicle (Hummer), consisting of a gunner position, two missile launcher pods containing four Stinger missiles each, a forward-looking infrared receiver (FLIR), a laser range finder, an identification friend or foe (IFF) system and a high rate of fire .50-caliber machine gun (1,100 rpm).

The Avenger A2 has network the system with external radars and the Forward Area Air Defense (FAAD) C3 system. Upon selection of a specific track for engagement, the Avenger turret will automatically slew to bring the target within the FLIR's field of view.

http://defense-update.com/products/a/avenger.htm
http://www.armyrecognition.com/unit...hnical_data_sheet_specifications_picture.html

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http://picssr.com/tags/antwq1

Just for size comparison
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Forward Area Air Defense Command and Control (FAAD C2)
The Forward Area Air Defense (FAAD) Command and Control (C2) system was developed by Northrop Grumman to provide command and control (C2) for the U.S. Army Short Range Air Defense (SHORAD) Systems. FAAD C2 receives air track data from multiple local sensors as well as multiple external track and C2 sources. All track data is correlated, and a single integrated air picture (SIAP) is distributed to all SHORAD weapons, along with engagement orders and weapon control status to provide complete situational awareness (SA). FAAD C2 also provides both its local air picture and the status of SHORAD weapons to higher echelon air defense and maneuver elements.

Not only does FAAD C2 currently interface with many sensors, weapons and external track/C2 sources, it can also be expanded to interface with other new or legacy systems.
http://www.northropgrumman.com/MediaResources/MediaKits/Avalon/Documents/C-RAM-FAAD_Datasheet.pdf

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The Avenger comes mainly in three configurations, the Basic, Slew-to-Cue, and the Up-Gun.

The Basic configuration consists of a gyro-stabilized air defense turret mounted on a modified heavy Humvee. The turret has two Stinger missile launcher pods, each capable of firing up to 4 fire-and-forget infrared/ultraviolet guided missiles in rapid succession. The Avenger can be linked to the Forward Area Air Defense Command, Control, Communications and Intelligence (FAAD C3I) system, which permits external radar tracks and messages to be passed to the fire unit to alert and cue the gunner.

The Slew-to-Cue (STC) subsystem allows the commander or gunner to select a FAAD C3I reported target for engagement from a display on a Targeting Console developed from VT Miltope's Pony PCU. Once the target has been selected, the turret can be automatically slewed directly to the target with limited interaction by the gunner.

The Up-Gun Avenger was developed specifically for the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment for the Regiment's 2005 deployment to Iraq. The modification was designed to allow the Avenger to perform unit and asset defense in addition to its air defense mission. The right missile pod was removed and the M3P .50 cal machine gun was moved to the pod's former position. This allowed for the removal of the turret's cab safety limits which enabled the gun to be fired directly in front of the HMMWV. Eight of the unit's Avengers were modified to this configuration. With the 3rd ACR's redeployment from Iraq, the Up-Gun Avenger completed its role in Operation Iraqi Freedom and the Avengers have been scheduled to be converted back to STC systems.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/TWQ-1_Avenger#Overview

AN/TWQ-1 Avenger
Egypt originally ordered 50 units, but in 2006 it chose to order a further 25 units which all were delivered by September 2008. AA Range = 8 km, AA Ceiling = 8 km, Speed = Mach 2.2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_Air_Defense_Forces#Egyptian_Air_Defense_equipment

Egypt also operates 80 MIM-72 Chaparral. (AA Range = 9 km, AA Ceiling = 4 km, Speed = Mach 1.5) Possibly these could be adopted for use aboard ship by dismounting from the track cargo carrier of the M113 family.
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See Taiwanese navy.
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Likewide maybe the towed M167 VADS (20mm Vulcan Gatling), of which Egypt has 72
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_Air_Defense_Forces#Egyptian_Air_Defense_equipment

Still, I think Avenger offers best solution of these three.
 
Gomig-21, friend that is a very good list of equipment you are citing there..In a few day I am going to list exactly what Egypt is getting with the MIG's she ordered..
 
The weapon system is controlled from the turret, there doesn't seem to be much equipment in the cab of the HUMVEE at all.

You're right, looks that way. Still seems like it would be a pain in the behind to pull just one of those things off and install it on the ship temporarily.

With a but of tweaking, it may be possible to have the Avenger turrets communicate with the ship's CMS.

That's where I think it would be a royal pain in the bumbooshka. Trying to rig it with the ship's onboard systems? Oooof lol.

Egypt also operates 80 MIM-72 Chaparral. (AA Range = 9 km, AA Ceiling = 4 km, Speed = Mach 1.5) Possibly these could be adopted for use aboard ship by dismounting from the track cargo carrier of the M113 family.

I've always thought the Chaparral looke like a toy. Those missile (while probably inert in many of the pics) look ridiculously similar to plastic scale model missiles. But 9km range and mach 1.5 is probably a last resort system. Maybe it's time for the Egyptian AD to replace these.

Likewide maybe the towed M167 VADS (20mm Vulcan Gatling), of which Egypt has 72

This is an absolute. The Egyptian Navy operates the Phalanx on several ships. They need gradual defensive layers on the Mistrals like any carrier (as you probably know better than I do.) A complete CIWS with missiles, automated Gatling guns and even manned MG's. If I had it my way, I'd have 4 Kashtan complete CIWS with missiles and their pair of automated guns per unit. 2 on the designated bow locations and 2 on the stern ones, if they can fit! lol. Then I would put 2, manned 50 cal guns at midship on port and starboard for protection against approaching small ships and even as a last defensive line. I'd arm the living daylights out of those 2 carriers and make any enemy pay the biggest price possible.

It will be interesting to see what they end up using for escorts, the Ambassadors or the Buyans if they get them? Will they get new replenishing ships? I think there's only 1 right now. They need at least 2 for fuel and supplies. How they'll use the Ka-52k's when they show up? Should be fun to see.

Still, I think Avenger offers best solution of these three.

Contrary to popular belief, as evidenced by all the billions of $ Egypt has spent in the last 4 years on new arms, it has plenty of cash and will end up buying a new Russian CIWS for the two carriers. They looked at the Chinese FL-3000N last year but apparently weren't interested. It's a decent CIWS but there's better.


Should be fun to see how things develop in the next few years.
 
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You're right, looks that way. Still seems like it would be a pain in the behind to pull just one of those things off and install it on the ship temporarily.
No, I don't think dismounting is involves much more that unbolting the turret-unit from the HUMVEE and lifting it to the desired location with a crane.

That's where I think it would be a royal pain in the bumbooshka. Trying to rig it with the ship's onboard systems? Oooof lol.
All that is needed is getting cueing information to the firing units, which are otherwise autonomous. And feeding back results information (info from the firing units) to the CMS of the ship. As I have indicated, there do seem to be compatibilities with the FAAD C3I system used with the Avenger batteries and the ships' SENIT-9 CMS. Specifically in terms of the tactical data system and data link.

I've always thought the Chaparral looke like a toy. Those missile (while probably inert in many of the pics) look ridiculously similar to plastic scale model missiles. But 9km range and mach 1.5 is probably a last resort system. Maybe it's time for the Egyptian AD to replace these.
In US-service, the Chapparal was replaced by Avenger.

This is an absolute. The Egyptian Navy operates the Phalanx on several ships. They need gradual defensive layers on the Mistrals like any carrier (as you probably know better than I do.) A complete CIWS with missiles, automated Gatling guns and even manned MG's.
VADS is not at all the same as Phalanx CIWS, although both use the same 20mm gatling gun. VADS is much simpler. In US-service, VADS (both in towed version and M113-mounted version) was replaced by Avenger. The Israeli's still use the M113-mounted version, refitted with a pod of 4 Stinger MANPADs and equipped upgraded tracking system and the ability to share information with local high-power radar (Machbet).

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If I had it my way, I'd have 4 Kashtan complete CIWS with missiles and their pair of automated guns per unit. 2 on the designated bow locations and 2 on the stern ones, if they can fit! lol. Then I would put 2, manned 50 cal guns at midship on port and starboard for protection against approaching small ships and even as a last defensive line. I'd arm the living daylights out of those 2 carriers and make any enemy pay the biggest price possible.

This may seem nice, but pics like the one below do not show the (fairly big) underdeck portion of the system.
Pantsir-M_KBP_IMDS_2015_2.jpg


You'ld need to have 1 deck deep space available below the gun
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Even the pic like the one above does not show another (fairly big) underdeck portion of the system, namely the housings containing the reloading mechnism and 2 missile magazines (total 2x16=32 missile reloads).

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What you really want on these ships is something without any deck penetration!

Let's look as ENS Anwar El Sadat for a moment...
Note the there is a deckhouse for penetrating armament at starboard front (intended for AK630) and an open space on port front (intended for Gibka pedestal mounted MANPADS). This layout is mirrored at the stern. In addition, there appears to be a mounting for a gun in the forward deckhouse (in fron of bridg/island), something we don't find in the deckhousing to the rear.

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You have to consider that, with few exceptions, Egyptian navy's main units either are US sourced (ex-USN Knox, ex-USN Perry) or European sourced (French FREMM & GOWIND, ex-Spanish Descubierta). From a logistics point of view, that means Russian or Chinese systems are less desirable, as not used on most ships.

'Cheap and cheerfull' options would be to dismount two Avenger firing units from their HUMVEEs and install one portside bow and one starboard side stern. Next, take turrets from two M163 VADS and install in starboard side bow and port side stern deckhousings. You could install either a 76mm Oto Melara cannon or a Phalanx CIWS forward of the bridge and put 2x4 Harpoon on the deckhouse behind the bridge and stack. This would require the least investment in arms, assure a good degree of weapons commonality though could involve some challenges integrating the weapons with the CMS.

Alternatively you could also put Phalanx on port bow and starboard stern position and use the other 2 positions either to put e.g. decoy/chaff/flare launchers, or - if you have money to burn - a 21 round RAM launcher. Have a 76mm forward of the bridge and 2x4 Harpoon behind it, using those superstructures. I think this would be my preferred option.

But how about a French oriented version: a 6-round SANDRAL launcher port front and starboard rear and a Narwhal 20mm on starboard front and port rear, 16 VL Mica forward of the Bridge and 2x4 MM40 Block 3 behind the bridge in/on the respective deckhouses. This would be most compatible with the newest surface ships of EN.

Russian oriented version: a GIBKA launcher port front and starboard rear and a AK630 on starboard front and port rear, a Naval Tor M2 forward and behind the Bridge and, room permitting, 2x4 AShM e.g. Uran or Club behind the bridge in/on the respective deckhouses.
 
Looking at the deckhouse in front of the bridge, I wonder if the Russians intended to fit a 100mm gun or maybe even 130mm on their Mistrals, for firesupport. Like in their own Lavina design:

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On the regular Mistral's of the French navy:
Information from the ship's sensors is centralised in the SENIT system (Système d'Exploitation Navale des Informations Tactiques, "System for Naval Usage of Tactical Information"), a derivative of the US Navy's Naval Tactical Data System (NTDS). Problems in the development of the SENIT 9 revision contributed to the one-year delay in the delivery of the two ships. SENIT 9 is based around Thales' tri-dimensional MRR3D-NG Multi Role Radar, which operates on the C band and incorporates IFF capabilities. SENIT 9 can also be connected to NATO data exchange formats through Link 11, Link 16 and Link 22.

I find it fascinating that the French were willing to give the Russians the SENIT-9 with data ink 11, 22 & 16! You would think that American and NATO based data links would not be shared with the Russians.

France will transfer a number of sensitive technologies to Russia along with Mistral ships to be purchased by Russia, including the SENIT-9 tactical combat information system installed on the helicopter carriers.

So it's safe to assume SENIT-9 is still in the 2 Egyptian Mistrals. Very interesting as to how the Ka-52K's will works with SENIT-9? They must've been planning to integrate the helos to work within that system.

You'ld need to have 1 deck deep space available below the gun

Indeed. That was why I said "if it fits!" :-)

Even the pic like the one above does not show another (fairly big) underdeck portion of the system, namely the housings containing the reloading mechnism and 2 missile magazines (total 2x16=32 missile reloads).

There still might be enough room below, even without the elevated deckhouse, no?

Let's look as ENS Anwar El Sadat for a moment...
Note the there is a deckhouse for penetrating armament at starboard front (intended for AK630) and an open space on port front (intended for Gibka pedestal mounted MANPADS).

I did notice the difference in the starboard and port locations. Since the starboard one has the elevated deckhouse, that might be suitable for the Kashtan, while the port location doesn't. Not having the elevated deck looks like it would restrict field of view a little bit. You'd want something that can turn at least 130 degrees to stern. This might be a challenge for that spot. Hard to tell, though.

Looking at the deckhouse in front of the bridge, I wonder if the Russians intended to fit a 100mm gun or maybe even 130mm on their Mistrals, for firesupport. Like in their own Lavina design:This layout is mirrored at the stern. In addition, there appears to be a mounting for a gun in the forward deckhouse (in fron of bridg/island), something we don't find in the deckhousing to the rear.

Are you talking about that circular platform on top of the deck?
 
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I find it fascinating that the French were willing to give the Russians the SENIT-9 with data ink 11, 12 & 16! You would think that American and NATO based data links would not be shared with the Russians.

So it's safe to assume SENIT-9 is still in the 2 Egyptian Mistrals. Very interesting as to how the Ka-52K's will works with SENIT-9? They must've been planning to integrate the helos to work within that system.
I don't know. All I said is IF ... THEN.


Indeed. That was why I said "if it fits!" :-)
Yeah but Ak630 just needs half a deck while Palma a full deck's worth of depth.

There still might be enough room below, even without the elevated deckhouse, no?
In principle, every space but the elevated deckhouse will alrady have some function. Question is whether that can be moved or missed.

I did notice the difference in the starboard and port locations. Since the starboard one has the elevated deckhouse, that might be suitable for the Kashtan, while the port location doesn't.
Kashtan or similar ONLY WITHOUT MISSILE RELOADING DEVICE. Missiles would be stored vertically in a caroussel. Missiles alone are 2560 mm in length.

Are you talking about that circular platform on top of the deck?
On the island structure, forward of the bridge, there is what appears to be a circular gunbase visible.
 
Gomig-21, friend that is a very good list of equipment you are citing there..In a few day I am going to list exactly what Egypt is getting with the MIG's she ordered..

Why wait a few days? Bring it, habibi. This is much better to argue technical details instead of the animosity! :-)
BTW, just FYI, don't include TVC as missing on the Egyptian MiG-35s. TVC is offered as an option for export models and isn't standard. Not even sure if the RuAF will be getting it on theirs.

In principle, every space but the elevated deckhouse will alrady have some function. Question is whether that can be moved or missed

Agreed. If it's empty space then it's needed for other things and if not, there's pipes, conduits, wiring, welded framing, things of that sort would certainly be in the way.

On the island structure, forward of the bridge, there is what appears to be a circular gunbase visible.

I did notice that and your guess seems correct. As long as whatever gun ends up there doesn't rotate 180 deg. and take the bridge & island out. :-)

The beauty looks fantastic..

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PS: the Russians said on many occasions that they can integrate any western system with theirs and vis-versa..On Demand (meaning if you're ready to pay for it)..

At first I thought it was very strange that the French were selling the Mistrals to the Russians with SENIT-9, but then they would still need the actual data links to connect to NATO or American systems. So maybe they weren't necessarily handing them access. Whether the Russians can access and integrate NATO or American data links...not sure. You believe them?
 
Why wait a few days? Bring it, habibi. This is much better to argue technical details instead of the animosity! :-)
BTW, just FYI, don't include TVC as missing on the Egyptian MiG-35s. TVC is offered as an option for export models and isn't standard. Not even sure if the RuAF will be getting it on theirs.




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At first I thought it was very strange that the French were selling the Mistrals to the Russians with SENIT-9, but then they would still need the actual data links to connect to NATO or American systems. So maybe they weren't necessarily handing them access. Whether the Russians can access and integrate NATO or American data links...not sure. You believe them?
The full list was already provided on a thread posted in the Arab defense section.. nothing new up till now, only that the AESA radar will be ready this summer and go through tests instead of being ready in 2019..

i think they were talking about weapons integration, avionics...etc
If one can get western tech, the Russians can integrate it on their platforms.. the data links, well, the customers can get them on their own after the delivery, depending on how close they are to the West..
 
Al-Sisi will open the military base "Mohammed Najib" the largest in the Middle East tomorrow .. Built on 18 thousand acres .. Including 1155 vital facilities and 72 fields of training and dozens of fields for shooting of all kinds .. And securing the Dabaa project and the oil fields are the most important objectives..

Mohammed Najib military base
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طفرة حقيقية تشهدها القوات المسلحة في إطار الإستراتيجية الحالية للتحديث والتطوير الشامل

_______________________________________________________________

ثُعد قاعدة " محمد نجيب " أضخم قاعدة عسكرية في الشرق الأوسط وإفريقيا والمقامة على مساحة 18 ألف فدان، نظرا لما تُمثّله من أهمية استراتيجية قصوى لتأمين مناطق " غرب الإسكندرية " - " الساحل اشمالي " التي تشمل " محطة الضبعة النووية " ( تتسع إلى 32 مقاعلاً نووياً ) وحقول البترول وميناء مرسى الحمراء ( مركز رئيسي للتصدير ) ومدينة العلمين الجديدة ( مدينة مليونية سياحية بها مقر حكم مُصغّر صيفي ) وغيرها من المناطق شديدة الحيوية، الداخلة في نطاق اختصاص المنطقة الشمالية العسكرية، وذلك بالتعاون مع الأسطول الشمالي المصري والقوات الجوية وقوات الدفاع الجوي.

تساعد القاعدة فى الحد من التحركات العسكرية وإجراءات الفتح الاستراتيجى فى ظل التكدسات المرورية داخل مدينة الإسكندرية فضلا عن كونها تمثل قاعدة للتدريب المشترك مع الدول الشقيقة والصديقة ( مناورة حُماة الصداقة مع القوات الروسية - مناورات التجم الساطع مع القوات الأمريكية وعدد من الدول الصديقة والشقيقة )، يتوافر بها كافة الإمكانيات بشكل حضارى متطور.

أما المنطقة الغربية العسكرية فقد كان من نصيبها قاعدة " براني " لحماية مصالج الدولة المصرية والأمن القومي في الاتجاه الاستراتيجي الغربي من كافة أعمال التسرّب للعناصر الإرهابية وتهريب الأسلحة والمخدرات، وكذا حماية وتأمين المصالح الحيوية في تلك المنطقة وعلى رأسها مدينة وميناء جرجوب بغرب مطروح التي ستتحول إلى مركز إقتصادي متكامل يحوي منطقة صناعية ومنطقة خدمات لوجيستية ومراكز للسياحة العالمية.

أعمال التطوير والإنشاءات الإدراية ومناطق الإيواء امتدت كذلك لتشمل تشكيلات الجيشين الثاني والثالث الميدانيين :

- في الجيش الثالث الميدانى تم إنشاء مدينة سكنية جديدة للفرقة الرابعة المدرعة ، تضم العديد من المنشآت الإدارية والمرافق والتى تم تصميمها وتجهيزها هندسيا وإداريا وفقا لاعلى المستويات مع الاهتمام بالجانب المعنوى والبدني للفرد المقاتل من خلال الملاعب وصالات الإعداد البدني وأعمال التنسيق الحضاري.

- في نطاق الجيش الثاني الميداني تضمن التطوير أعمال الإنشاء والتحديث الشامل لجميع منشآت الفرقة السابعة مشاة ميكانيكي ، وامتد ليشمل بناء المئات من المنشآت الجديدة من المبانى التخصصية والإدارية وأماكن الإيواء ومناطق تمركز الأسلحة والمعدات لحمايتها من العوامل الجوية، وكذلك ميادين التدريب والمنشآت الرياضية والترفيهية للوحدات الفرعية والصغرى، التابعة للفرقة.

أعمال التطوير والتحديث الجارية على قدم وساق بالقوات المسلحة، لا تقتصر فقط على انظمة التسليح والقتال والتدريب ، بل وتمتد إلى إنشاء القواعد العسكرية وتطوير وتوسعة القواعد الحالية ، وإنشاء وإقامة المباني الإدارية ومراكز التدريب وأماكن الإيواء وغيرها من الإنشاءات الحيوية للقوات المسلحة ، والتي تخدم استراتيجية التحديث والتطوير التي تخدم الأمن القومي المصري طبقا للتهديدات المحيطة على مختلف الاتجاهات الاستراتيحية للدولة.

صفحة :بوابة الدفاع المصرية


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