Egypt moves to ban alcohol, belly dancing

[somebozo]

I'm also a skeptic of Islam but I disagree with you on the Muhammad part. I do not believe that Muhammad is infallible or something, he was an ordinary human being and has his share of mistakes too. But aggressive warfare and expansionism wasn't undertaken under Muhammad's leadership. The wars were only with enemies (meccans) or conspirators (Banu Qurayza) and Muhammad did what any pragmatic leader would.

However, after Muhammad's death, with the 4 khalifas it's a different story altogether. At this point I would agree with you that jihad and warfare was used by the 4 khalifas and predecessors to spread Islam aggressively.

If you sow a seed it takes time to grow into a tree.
While Muhammed did not take up aggressive warfare to spread islam - he certainly provided the future direction and motivation to do so. There are numerous prophecies about the conquest of Persia, fall of Roman-Arabia and even blessing for the conquer of Constantinople.

Rasul Allah (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said: “Verily, Constantinople shall be conquered, its commander shall be the best commander ever and his army shall be the best army ever.”

It is also very obvious that all the conquest of Roman-Arabia, Persia and Constantinople were motivated and urged due to their material wealth and richness - which makes Islam a doctrine of imperialism rather than a religion.

 

[King Solomon]

If you sow a seed it takes time to grow into a tree.
While Muhammed did not take up aggressive warfare to spread islam - he certainly provided the future direction and motivation to do so. There are numerous prophecies about the conquest of Persia, fall of Roman-Arabia and even blessing for the conquer of Constantinople.

Rasul Allah (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said: “Verily, Constantinople shall be conquered, its commander shall be the best commander ever and his army shall be the best army ever.”

It is also very obvious that all the conquest of Roman-Arabia, Persia and Constantinople were motivated and urged due to their material wealth and richness - which makes Islam a doctrine of imperialism rather than a religion.

You do have a point but consider this: Quran itself says that Muhammad didn't know the future and doesn't make any prophecy for future conquests (except one ambiguous prophecy of the conquest of persia). Could these hadiths have been fabricated by the 4 khalifas, umayyads and abbasids to justify their conquests? At that time, we have to remember that there was no TV or internet and word-of mouth was the only method of transmission. Thus, it would be VERY easy for the rulers to fabricated sayings to religiously motivate people in taking part in their aggressive wars.

I agree with you that most, if not all, Islamic conquests after Muhammad was motivated for gaining material wealth and richness and Islam became a form of imperialism.

 

[somebozo]

You do have a point but consider this: Quran itself says that Muhammad didn't know the future and doesn't make any prophecy for future conquests (except one ambiguous prophecy of the conquest of persia). Could these hadiths have been fabricated by the 4 khalifas, umayyads and abbasids to justify their conquests? At that time, we have to remember that there was no TV or internet and word-of mouth was the only method of transmission. Thus, it would be VERY easy for the rulers to fabricated sayings to religiously motivate people in taking part in their aggressive wars.

I agree with you that most, if not all, Islamic conquests after Muhammad was motivated for gaining material wealth and richness and Islam became a form of imperialism.

Well it is said that the empires made the religion and many of the hadiths have dubious sources of narration often from politically connected people.

 

[Not Sure]

I am a strong skeptic of Islam and all religions and do not necessary agree with mullahs have got to say. For most part, all religions were born at the times of distress - no different than how Nazi party was born at the time when Germany was in distress.

If the message of islam was all that great, Muhammad wouldn't need continuous warfare and cult of jihad to spread it around. All hints indicate that the majority never accepted their submission to Islam and that lead to a massive exodus of talent masses from Arabia leaving only the utter uneducated backward salafi type people in-charge. The three khalifas were murderd on job and by the time the Ummayad seized power, massive massacre of sahaba's occurred in Medina - againt indicating that these people were playing a role in ongoing political nuisance.

Your skepticism might be welcomed by all minds, but I am sure not about the comparison with the Nazis.

While you are right somebozo, that all religions crop up in the times of distress that comes from a crisis - be it financial, or moral. But the crisis culminates into a need for rationing of resources, be they tangible, or intangible.

In the times when there are more people than resources, there always comes a need for rules and for acceptable and organized behavior to curtail the freedom. Those rules graduate into constitution, and the behavior into moral values that need to be implemented against all odds - thus they are called words of God, and form the basis of any religion.

This is the reason that all the religions in the world, be they African, or Dharmic, or Abhrahmic, or any other, the fundamental moral values are common to all of them. While we practice some morality, and appreciate it too, then we should always be respectful toward our respective religions.

And I seriously doubt anyone in the 7th century had any idea about globalization and equal distribution of knowledge and resources, otherwise the religious texts might have been written differently. But they were not, since they were created in the times of distress - as you stated. That is why people of all religions tend to keep only those values and codes that are relevant even in modern times, and tend to discard those that are not (although most often people say the outdated stuff wasn't even part of the religion - a needless face saving measure).

So let us not trivialize the concept of religion - those were the strings that tied people together and kept the societies from falling apart too quickly.

I am a hardcore atheist - if that helps.

 

[Kambojaric]

Is this actually going to work? 10% of the population is christian, they for sure are not going to follow this law. The tourism industry is very important for Egypt, again I highly doubt restaurents, hotels catering for them will get rid of alochol. Further belly dancing is part of their culture as far as I know, So basically this law is just being made to be broken.

 

[Jackdaws]

Arab Spring for Freedom - shame the Freedom did not even last for 2 springs!

 

[third eye]

This is a mistake. You can never ban corruption and sin. That just creates black markets and underground activity and then you have to use law enforcement resources to implement the law which is a losing battle and waste of resources.

Very well put.

I often wonder if those who scream for bans on almost everything because its ' Un Islamic / against Hinduism / Sikhism/ Christianity "etc every stop to wonder if their Dads, Grandads & Great Grand dads who lived with such things and that ' deserve' a ban were any less religious or loved their religion any lesser ?

After all the values the "nouveau- super religious" now profess came from those who enjoyed belly dancing, an odd drink and so many other forbidden sins yet produced off spring like them.

 

[Farhad Hassan]

I am a strong skeptic of Islam and all religions and do not necessary agree with mullahs have got to say. For most part, all religions were born at the times of distress - no different than how Nazi party was born at the time when Germany was in distress.

If the message of islam was all that great, Muhammad wouldn't need continuous warfare and cult of jihad to spread it around. All hints indicate that the majority never accepted their submission to Islam and that lead to a massive exodus of talent masses from Arabia leaving only the utter uneducated backward salafi type people in-charge. The three khalifas were murderd on job and by the time the Ummayad seized power, massive massacre of sahaba's occurred in Medina - againt indicating that these people were playing a role in ongoing political nuisance.

Umm the question what part of my post were you talking about? Because this seemed totally irrelevant to what I was talking about or what the original topic was. However, I would have liked to to comment on what you had said anyways but I guess Not Sure has already said it all in this post:

Your skepticism might be welcomed by all minds, but I am sure not about the comparison with the Nazis.

While you are right somebozo, that all religions crop up in the times of distress that comes from a crisis - be it financial, or moral. But the crisis culminates into a need for rationing of resources, be they tangible, or intangible.

In the times when there are more people than resources, there always comes a need for rules and for acceptable and organized behavior to curtail the freedom. Those rules graduate into constitution, and the behavior into moral values that need to be implemented against all odds - thus they are called words of God, and form the basis of any religion.

This is the reason that all the religions in the world, be they African, or Dharmic, or Abhrahmic, or any other, the fundamental moral values are common to all of them. While we practice some morality, and appreciate it too, then we should always be respectful toward our respective religions.

And I seriously doubt anyone in the 7th century had any idea about globalization and equal distribution of knowledge and resources, otherwise the religious texts might have been written differently. But they were not, since they were created in the times of distress - as you stated. That is why people of all religions tend to keep only those values and codes that are relevant even in modern times, and tend to discard those that are not (although most often people say the outdated stuff wasn't even part of the religion - a needless face saving measure).

So let us not trivialize the concept of religion - those were the strings that tied people together and kept the societies from falling apart too quickly.

I am a hardcore atheist - if that helps.

 

[Ceylal]

If you sow a seed it takes time to grow into a tree.
While Muhammed did not take up aggressive warfare to spread islam - he certainly provided the future direction and motivation to do so. There are numerous prophecies about the conquest of Persia, fall of Roman-Arabia and even blessing for the conquer of Constantinople.


It is also very obvious that all the conquest of Roman-Arabia, Persia and Constantinople were motivated and urged due to their material wealth and richness - which makes Islam a doctrine of imperialism rather than a religion.

What you said is factual, the early invasions for spreading Islam was all but that, it was mainly pilliaging and women trade and it was century after that Moslem religion start taking hold and was mainly spread by locals, that found in it equity and justice... and now we live with this...

 

[Ceylal]

Islamic world moving towards self destruction , ban them for immigration otherwise this cancer will destroy human civilization.

The cancer is known, we just need to fumigate it.., no need to put the whole in the same basket because of a few...

 

[TheJewverine]

sir its actually the other way around you and other indians

"Myself and the other Indians?" That is not a complete statement, myself and the other Indians ___________

What are you trying to say here?

 

[muse]

The cancer is known, we just need to fumigate it.., no need to put the whole in the same basket because of a few...

Ceylal: Why must the rest of the world suffer on behalf of Muslims - shouldn't this be so called Islamic civilization that should be responsible for cleaning up what is their own mess??

If immigration of these so called Muslims is restricted, maybe they will begin to understand that they must clean up their own mess, because they cannot just create a mess for the rest of the world and them escape out the hell holes they created in the first place.

 

[somebozo]

Ceylal: Why must the rest of the world suffer on behalf of Muslims - shouldn't this be so called Islamic civilization that should be responsible for cleaning up what is their own mess??

If immigration of these so called Muslims is restricted, maybe they will begin to understand that they must clean up their own mess, because they cannot just create a mess for the rest of the world and them escape out the hell holes they created in the first place.

The national security and stability of Arab sheikhdoms and its monarchy depends on continuous export of wahabi/salafi propoganda and finance to support to overseas so the royals will be viewed as legitimate rulers by the trials. Burn others house to safe your own. In the long run I see many Islamic countries going secular after bloody civil conflicts and a rise in atheist population.

 

[agentny17]

The result of coming Parliamentary elections would negate your point. Only harden dictators can stop the will of streets to be implemented against their wishes. The choice is in the hand of Egyptian people and i am more than sure that the composition of coming Parliament would be same as the abolished previous Parliament.

Most likely it would because the way the the elections laws are made, it gives no chance to liberals, socials, and non Islamists. Islamist got 58% of people votes in the previous elections, but ended up with 75% of seat in the parliament. This is not fair. The rules, and laws clearly favor them, that is why people are in the street.

 

[Armstrong]

@TheJewverine : Bro, I think I'm gonna get my guys in the Israeli Parliament to follow suit & table a resolution banning the Backlava & Maccabi Haifa - One is too sweet whilst the other plays god awful foobtall !

What do you say ?