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Egypt | Army Ousts Mursi govt, violence erupts | News & Discussions

Sorry, not to agree with you, I think the Egyptian military was hand cuffed by Sadat, and the key was given to Israel.

The modern Egyptian military after Mohammed Ali Pasha has always been handcuffed. It was handcuffed under the monarchy and under militarily rule, the soviets weren't as cooperative as some believe. What has really handcuffed the Egyptian military is the sate of Egypt itself, without a powerful economy the Egyptian military has to rely on US aid as its primary source of procurement while generating cash independent of state funding to purchase weapons from other sources but never quite reaching parity with Israel. We have put ourselves in this position and not Sadat. We have put ourselves in this position. If there's one thing the Egyptian military can do though, its make do with what they have.
 
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So, nothing much has changed. No one wants to target Israeli citizens, the only legit targets are Israeli military bases or personnel. Using Grad missiles to indiscriminately kill is not going to solve the Palestinian-Israeli crisis. It will only serve Israel as they will appear to be vindicated in their actions against the Palestinian people. Cooperation to eradicate a threat to both nations may be advantageous but it doesn't change the fact that both nations see each other as enemies.

By the way, the relationship between Israel and Egypt improved under Morsi especially in the diplomatic and military channels.
I still believe that coordinated military action between both countries is stretching it a little. If theres solid proof of this strike then I have no problem believing it but with the way this is being reported and the continuous citation of "military sources" and contradictory reports of who carried out the strike leaves me suspicious (especially with the propaganda campaign going on in Egypt).



The military is working on the security situation and is moderately successful in its job. You have to realise that the Egyptian military is primarily focused on conventional threats with only a small number of special forces trained in counter-terrorist operations.



As long as the Egyptian military doesn't lose sight of who the enemy is then I have nothing to worry about.

No brought up the Palestinain cause and neither was it in their intent to advance the cause. And yes a lot has changed and I just gave a general specification to what the military exists for today.

No the relationship didn't improve, what your mentioning are members in the Egyptian military command who don't rely on Morsi whatsoever on having channels to Israeli military sources.

Who's this enemy you're speaking of? Do you really expect us to believe that today Egypt considers Israel an enemy state?
 
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No brought up the Palestinain cause and neither was it in their intent to advance the cause. And yes a lot has changed and I just gave a general specification to what the military exists for today.

No the relationship didn't improve, what your mentioning are members in the Egyptian military command who don't rely on Morsi whatsoever on having channels to Israeli military sources.

Who's this enemy you're speaking of? Do you really expect us to believe that today Egypt considers Israel an enemy state?

Firstly,

Ya'alon: Sinai rumors will not affect peace with Egypt

Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon addressed the attack in Egyptian Rafah Friday that was attributed to IDF, in which at least four jihadists were killed, and said: "The State of Israel respects the sovereignty of Egypt and is aware of the increased activity against terror in the Sinai Peninsula. We will not allow rumors and speculations, which have developed in the past 24 hours, to harm the peace treaty between the two countries." (Yoav Zitun)

Ya'alon: Sinai rumors will not affect peace with Egypt - Israel News, Ynetnews

Ya'alon: Israel respects Egypt's sovereignty | JPost | Israel News

That's over.

Actually it did. Regardless of military channels the diplomatic channels did improve after Morsi brought about the longest ceasefire yet and started the policy of tunnel demolition.

Who's this enemy you're speaking of? Do you really expect us to believe that today Egypt considers Israel an enemy state?

Walk on the streets of Egypt and ask, listen to the TV in which both sides accuse Israel of conspiracy and view it as the enemy, look at why Egypt's request for F-15s was turned down, sit in military student lessons/lectures and see who's weaponry and tactics they are analysing...

It may come as a shock to you but Israel is still considered the enemy even if no one screams it at the top of their lungs and those who did seized power and did absolutely nothing about it.
 
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No he didn't start the policy, the military proposed it after Israel demanded as a condition for the ceasefire even though they haven't respected a single condition they were supposed to apply to themselves regarding the ceasefire. They've already conducted an assassination like targeted killing, and since the beginning of the ceasefire didn't respect the border agreements regarding the fishing distance or the border fence agreements.

Israeli minister will act on behalf of what his government tells him to say. Same with Egyptian spokesmen. They seem to have increased cooperation over the past few months.

The funeral occurred for the members today and the scene has been inspected yet the Egyptian military offered no conclusion to the cause of the explosion besides denying Israel had been involved.

Israel is considered an enemy by every day general Egyptians, as for people holding high positions in the military some have other interests. Egypt doesn't really prepare for a scenario with Israel and they seem like they can't make up their mind over Sinai, whether to end the peace accords and take control of their territory or to let it happen both ways and let Israel exploit and exercise it's rights it can exploit in the future as well.
 
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No he didn't start the policy, the military proposed it after Israel demanded as a condition for the ceasefire even though they haven't respected a single condition they were supposed to apply to themselves regarding the ceasefire.

Who signed on the dotted line and thus gave the green light?

They've already conducted an assassination like targeted killing, and since the beginning of the ceasefire didn't respect the border agreements regarding the fishing distance or the border fence agreements.

In reality the ceasefire wasn't adhered to by either side.

Israeli minister will act on behalf of what his government tells him to say. Same with Egyptian spokesmen. They seem to have increased cooperation over the past few months.

Again, if you have evidence provide it, if you don't have evidence then you have no leg to stand on. Cooperation may have increased but that's due to security operations in the Sinai and nothing else.

The funeral occurred for the members today and the scene has been inspected yet the Egyptian military offered no conclusion to the cause of the explosion besides denying Israel had been involved.

A statement will probably be released later today.

Egypt is considered an enemy by every general Egyptians, as for people holding high positions in the military some have other interests. Egypt doesn't really prepare for a scenario with Israel and they seem like they can't make up their mind over Sinai, whether to end the peace accords and take control of their territory or to let it happen both ways and let Israel exploit and exercise it's rights it can exploit in the future as well.

Merkava mocks used to familiarize tank crews and anti-tank teams with its features. There's more but I'm not in the mood to slave through forums to find pictures.

544339_417897958302657_1930421521_n.jpg
 
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He had no other choice due to increased pressure from the military.

The ceasfire is complicated and I won't get into it right now.

Merkava mock ups don't prove much. And I doubt another statement will be released unless there is still speculation and interest. But, you slowly have come to realize it's better to admit the reality between the two nations that you first denied.

And tomorow you'll admit more.
 
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But, you slowly have come to realize it's better to admit the reality between the two nations that you first denied.

And tomorow you'll admit more.

Admit what?

There's well known diplomatic and (military) intelligence channels, but, there's nothing more than that.
 
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Attention!

This is what the Egyptian authority and the armed forces says in Arabic.

For those of you who are interested in knowing exactly what they said, you will want to Google translate this article

http://www.alarabiya.net/ar/arab-an...1604;مصرية.html

In short, every single military action has never been taken by none other forces except the Egyptian armed forces under the command of Al-Sisi.
 
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Attention!

This is what the Egyptian authority and the armed forces says in Arabic.

For those of you who are interested in knowing exactly what they said, you will want to Google translate this article

http://www.alarabiya.net/ar/arab-an...1604;مصرية.html

In short, every single military action has never been taken by none other forces except the Egyptian armed forces under the command of Al-Sisi.

I would wait for the official statement from the spokesman and then make assertions or conclusions because for the past few weeks 'senior military officials' beywadona feh dahya.
 
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I would wait for the official statement from the spokesman and then make assertions or conclusions because for the past few weeks 'senior military officials' beywadona feh dahya.

Hah! Ya pasha, this is AlArabyia, not Al-Alam. They mean with they say and say what they mean.
 
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Are you going to post pictures of the 50+ service men killed in the Sinai or the civilians that were killed by militants?

The drone strike didn't happen, even the dude that started the rumor talked to a tv channel and said an Egyptian Apache carried out the attack.
 
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Are you going to post pictures of the 50+ service men killed in the Sinai or the civilians that were killed by militants?

The drone strike didn't happen, even the dude that started the rumor talked to a tv channel and said an Egyptian Apache carried out the attack.
I don't trust El Sisi anymore. Egypt army was once favourite to all but now they lost support but as far as I know the army is divided.
 
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CAIRO, Aug 10 2013 (IPS) - Divisions are opening up within the Egyptian military over the controversial takeover from the ousted government of Muslim Brotherhood leader Mohammed Morsi, a senior party leader says.

“It is clear that there is disagreement within the armed forces, whose members have begun to realise the mistakes of Gen. Abdelfattah el-Sisi,” Dr Hamza Zoba’a, senior spokesperson for the Alhuria wal Adala (Freedom and Justice) party formed from the Muslim Brotherhood told IPS.

“El-Sisi seems to be losing support of his military partners as a result of his misconduct.”

Zoba’a says the army sits across a red line and should not be dragged into politics. “We do not wish to see a split within the army but we are sure that we will regain our rights.”

Party supporters will press for their rights peacefully, he said. “If the coup leaders want to kill more of us, we will not mind at all.” But while protesting peacefully, Zoba’a said, “the crimes against unarmed protesters who rejected the military coup will not be tolerated.”

Bloody clashes have become a daily scene in Egypt. Alhuria wal Adala members see themselves as victims of political genocide. “We are suffering from persecution now more than the blacks of America in the past,” Zoba’a said.

Alhuria wal Adala have meanwhile backed two political offers made to the military. The first was launched by former prime minister Hisham Qandil proposing release of Morsi on one side, and an end to demonstrations on the other. The second was a five-step plan presented by Islamist thinker and former presidential candidate Mohamed Selim El-Awa.

The first of these steps would be for Morsi to delegate powers to a new interim cabinet. The cabinet would hold parliamentary elections within the following 60 days, leading to a proper cabinet. The fourth step would be a presidential election and finally then a review of the constitution.

The Brotherhood claims come across a deep political divide. Other leaders deny a split within the army, and see the change as a step towards democracy that would take Egypt past what were emerging as Morsi’s increasingly autocratic ways. “The Egyptian people rescued themselves at the proper time,” Abdel Ghaffar Shukr, head of the Socialist People’s Alliance Party tells IPS.

The solution to the crisis, he says, lies in implementation of the roadmap announced by the army, with a new constitution eliminating the articles that would turn Egypt into a religious state. “The Muslim Brotherhood should recognise the fait accompli. They isolate themselves and refuse to sit at the negotiations table and reconciliation sessions, then complain to the west of persecution.”

The Muslim Brotherhood, Shukr said, was “sacrificing their supporters” in armed clashes to gain the sympathy of the West. Party members are also attacking military installations and cutting off roads, he said.

“The spectre of civil war is not far from Egypt. If the security vacuum in Sinai is not handled wisely and quickly, terrorism hotbeds and Jihadists would move to Cairo, which would lead to infighting and public division.”

Human rights activist Amr Hamzawy says the Muslim Brotherhood failed to bring the transition to democracy in its year in power. It sought to control the state and to dominate political life, he said. “The Muslim Brotherhood group must move completely away from political action.”

The Brotherhood and its allies to the religious right were condemning human rights violations against them, but refusing to apologise for violations from their side. “They must submit the instigators of such violence to trial. It is the only way to make people trust their intentions.”

On the other hand, he said, the liberal parties were now turning a blind eye to human rights abuses against supporters of the ousted president. “Liberals seem tight-lipped in front of the fascist exclusion of the Muslim Brotherhood. The double standards of these political powers are now exposed. Liberals must restore their belief in democracy and cease immediately the absolute support of the army, so long as the Muslim Brotherhood leaders can acknowledge their mistakes.”

IPS – Egypt Military

That's why we have seen soldiers lifting Morsi's banners. I don't trust the generals because they aready exposed themselves to be hypocrites like denying but 100% true. Well, the non-elected govts kept warning them but we now know the real reason why Pro Morsi supporters repeadtly pushed for more protest, look like someone is backing them :azn:
 
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