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Egypt | Army Ousts Mursi govt, violence erupts | News & Discussions
- Thread starter BLACKEAGLE
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Thanks for the good wishes and welcome to the forum.
Serpentine
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Ok calm down buddy,you are getting too hot.
1.Everyone can criticize whatever he likes,as long as he/she doesn't insult.Many agreed with Morsi,many opposed him, so stop handpicking only Iranians here.
2.The same way almost all Turkish member criticize Iran, every Iranian also has the same right, no one can blame any side.
3.I don't blame Turkish government as an Iranian, that's their opinion which is closer to MB, let Turkish people judge their government.
Ahiska
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Iranian Trolls started it like iaji or whatever his name was or Scythian they always look for a way to insult Turks and Turkics.
Ceylal
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Your assessement is wrong..Us policy always backed Islamist since the invasion of Afghanistan by the soviet. What happened in Egypt the last couple of days is 100% Egyptian! The Egyptian street spoke...and that is that...
Serpentine
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lajj is not an Iranian, he is a Chinese who by chance, hates Turks and Indians.Please don't generalize act of one single member to a whole nation.
Ahiska
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Im long in this forum i know that there also was an iranian iaji before he got banned.
BLACKEAGLE
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Egypts armed forces chief told Saudi Arabias King Abdullah on Friday that the situation in Egypt was stable, the Saudi state news agency said, as Islamists demonstrated across the country against the militarys overthrow of President Mohammed Mursi.
King Abdullah was one of the first regional leaders to congratulate the head of the Egyptian Constitutional Court, Adly Mansour, on his appointment as interim head of state after the armed forces deposed Mursi on Wednesday.
In Fridays phone call, armed forces commander General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi informed the king of the latest developments and reassured him of the stability of the situation, SPA said.
King Abdullah told Sisi the events in Egypt called for wisdom and caution, the news agency said.
Most Gulf Arab states have been deeply rattled by the rise of Islamists in the Middle East and have watched with relief as the Egyptian army stepped in to end Muslim Brotherhood rule.
Egypt is
Ceylal
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Egypt doesn't have mountains and forests where they can operate and hide...The only place is SINAI minus the forest, this territory is closed to them by the Egyptian-Israeli peace treaty and even if it isn't it has a little value since its lightly populated. Rebellion , to succeed has to have a local support that they will not find in Sinai. Towns in the area are heavily secured and any attempt to create chaos there will be futile.
Any rebellion, it has to be urbain. There too they will be crushed since the majority of the population are against Morsi, and the Egyptian security apparatus and the army have a great control of every town.
Solomon2
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That's what the "liberal scum" accomplished. But Egyptians are Egyptians first; their religious identity is separate. Furthermore, their sense of nationalism is very strong. They all tend to move together. I can guess that only a few tens of thousands of Egyptians extremists will be willing to act the way you ask - and they are just drops in the ocean compared to the millions the anti-Morsi advocates mobilized.
Indeed, if there is a sustained bout of terror, I'd first believe it would be due to foreign elements, not Egyptians themselves.
Neptune
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Yes its me again... @Deno made me an Honorary Turk as I made her an Honorary Pakistani which means I can butt-in whenever & wherever I want when it comes to Turkey !
I dunno if @Neptune is such a good swimmer; the last time we swam he ended up being taken under the water by a Sealion after it has seen @Neptune 's cute butt & the rest I can't tell otherwise he'd ban me !
Ahahah. Yeah I swim good. It's the first rule of sailing. I mean real sealing. Btw, why would I ban my Fenerbahcean brother...forget it. Let's ban Galatasaray's so-called boys...and don't forget to launch a Shaheen III through their homeland Aslantepe which means Cat Hill in english
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Ceylal
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If liberals are scum...what is the proper qualificatif should you give the one you are defending...?
kalu_miah
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The failure of this Islamist experiment poses a danger far beyond Egypt | Jonathan Freedland | Comment is free | The Guardian
The failure of this Islamist experiment poses a danger far beyond Egypt
Too many in the Muslim world will now conclude that democracy has no place for them – and will be drawn to violence instead
Jonathan Freedland
The Guardian, Friday 5 July 2013 15.30 EDT
Supporters of the ousted president, Mohamed Morsi, in Cairo this week. 'To remove an elected president, to arrest a movement’s leaders and silence its radio and TV stations, is to send a loud message to … Islamists everywhere.' Photograph: Xinhua /Landov / Barcroft Media
Even the most global events, those whose reverberations are felt far beyond their borders, are rooted in the specific and the local. This week's coup d'etat in Egypt, the army stepping in to remove and then arrest the democratically elected president, is no different. The toppling of Mohamed Morsi had a hundred causes, many of them wholly peculiar to Egypt. A choice example: Morsi wanted to close all shops at 10pm, so that Egyptians would be fully rested in time for morning prayers. That didn't go down well in famously nocturnal Cairo where, as the New Yorker put it, "there are still traffic jams at 2am and where internet usage peaks at 12.45am".
Still, what happens in Egypt matters outside Egypt. The country is just too important to keep its upheavals to itself. Consider that one in four Arabs are said to be Egyptian, the ancient nation repeatedly setting the lead the rest of the Arab world follows. One example: within a decade or two of Nasser taking power in the early 50s, similar regimes were in place in Iraq, Libya, Syria and Sudan.
One analyst says that the implications of these latest events will resonate even further, reaching Indonesia, Pakistan and every place where Muslims form the majority. Of course the nearer neighbours are affected most directly. The ambitious Gulf state of Qatar, Morsi's fellow Islamists in Turkey and the Muslim brothers of Hamas are among the initial losers, each having invested heavily in the one-year president only to see that investment evaporate. But the fallout spreads far wider. For this represents a deep blow not just to Morsi and the other Brotherhood leaders rounded up on the generals' orders – some of them jailed in the very same prison that houses Hosni Mubarak and his sons. It strikes at a larger project, namely the creation of a modern and viable form of political Islam, one that aspires not merely to be a movement of protest, but capable of government. Granted a trial run on the biggest possible stage, that show has now closed after just a year.
What to make of this failure of the Islamist experiment? The hostile will give a smug shrug and say this was no surprise. Citing the conduct of the man who before Morsi was most regularly named as the potential model of moderate Islamism, Turkey's Recep Tayyip Erdoğan – who last month crushed a wave of anti-government protests – they will sigh and regret without sincerity that this proves Islam and democracy are simply incompatible. They might repeat that oft-quoted nugget of cynicism, that in the Muslim world democracy means "one man, one vote, one time". In this view, the Egyptian election of 2012 was always bound to be a freak event, never to be repeated.
Defenders of Islamism will say the problem lay not within, but without – that the Morsi brand of political Islam was denied the chance to prove itself, strangled at birth by the forces that took back control this week. In this version, the Brotherhood was cheated of power it had won fair and square.
Less straightforward is the view of those who dream of a secular, liberal democracy flowering in Egypt. Many are cheered by this week's events: the theocrats have been scattered, their power-grabbing constitution suspended. Liberals might concede that, yes, this victory came about in strange fashion, delivered by the very armed forces they were demonstrating against 18 months ago. But there are coping mechanisms available to deal with such contradictions, denial chief among them. Note the message in English on the front of the al-Tahrir newspaper – "It's a revolution … not a coup, Mr Obama!" – or the delicate term chosen by the Egyptian novelist Ahdaf Soueif, who insisted this was not a coup, but a "deposal".
Yet this is to underestimate the danger of what has happened. To remove an elected president, to arrest a movement's leaders and silence its radio and TV stations, is to send a loud message to them and to Islamists everywhere. It says: you have no place in the political system. It says: there is no point trying to forge a version of political Islam compatible with democracy, because democracy will not be available to you.
It is the same message sent in Algeria two decades ago, when Islamists were on course to win an election but were pushed aside in a military coup before they could take power; and similarly in Gaza in 2006, when Hamas won the votes but were internationally shunned. Except this week, the point has been rammed home in one of the largest, historically mightiest Muslim nations. Chatham House's Nadim Shehadi worries that, after this week, "extremists will tell moderates, 'Don't even bother fighting elections. This is what happens to us if we win.'".
In Egypt the peril is very clear, made vivid by Friday's fear, partly realised, that the pro-Morsi forces' "day of rejection" would turn violent. The Muslim Brotherhood could, once again, be driven underground. It renounced violence long ago and few believe it will go back. But more radical jihadist voices – recall that at al-Qaida's helm is Ayman al-Zawahiri, an Egyptian – will now have a powerful rhetorical weapon. You tried the democratic route, they will say. And look where it got you.
The specific challenge for Egypt now is to somehow stop this pendulum swing from secular, military-backed dictatorship to illiberal democracy and back again, in which one set of masters seeks to replace entirely the other – typified by Morsi's winner-takes-all approach to power. A more durable accommodation would surely recognise that Islamist and secular Egypt have to live together and share power. That will require the Muslim Brotherhood not to draw the conclusion that they cannot rule democratically, but that they cannot rule alone.
The west are not detached bystanders in all this. US influence in the region may be diminishing, but in Egypt it retains power of the rawest kind: its $1.3bn in military aid gives it all but a veto over the Egyptian armed forces – aid, incidentally, that under US law will be cut off if Obama dares use the word "coup". The US could have used that muscle to head off this crisis months ago, pressuring the army and Morsi to come to an agreement. (Instead, secretary of state John Kerry seems more excited chasing the dream of an Israeli-Palestinian peace, even though the signs there are hardly encouraging.) That way, says Shehadi, Morsi would have been allowed to serve out his term, eventually be ridiculed as corrupt and incompetent, lose the next election – "and we'd have forgotten political Islamism for a generation". Instead, he and his movement will be martyrs.
Of course, it's hard not to root for the crowds in Tahrir Square, thrilled to be rid of a man apparently bent on becoming a theocratic tyrant. But the manner of his departure could pave the way for something far worse – for Egypt and beyond.
Twitter: @freedland
========================================================================
My personal comment:
I think the Egyptian Army made a serious mistake by removing a democratically elected govt. They simply do not have any legal right to do this, just because there is so many millions demonstrating.
As a result, Egypt will now burn.
My advice to Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood supporters would be to demonstrate peacefully without getting into violence. If a new election is called, participate in this election and try to win again. If the election is fair, accept the results, regardless of who wins. If the election is rigged, only then there is a place for fighting back a corrupt system that will not give fair election.
Enemy's of Muslims are out to prove that Muslims cannot work with and function in a democracy. They are trying to topple AKP in Turkey. Tunisia is hanging on. Recent election in Pakistan was great. Bangladesh is a lost cause, secular thugs are ruling and plan to remain in power with rigged elections. Lets see how things turn out in Egypt.
My call to Egyptian brothers, please give democracy a chance. If democracy is not allowed with rigged election or banning any political party, only then action should be taken against the enemy. They can remove Morsi, but they should not be allowed to take away democracy or rig elections. Lets try to fight with ballot boxes again. Lets not turn away from democracy, not just yet. Lets show to the world that Muslims can and will work with democracy and even will fight for their democratic rights, if it is taken away from them in a rigged election.
The failure of this Islamist experiment poses a danger far beyond Egypt
Too many in the Muslim world will now conclude that democracy has no place for them – and will be drawn to violence instead
Jonathan Freedland
The Guardian, Friday 5 July 2013 15.30 EDT
Supporters of the ousted president, Mohamed Morsi, in Cairo this week. 'To remove an elected president, to arrest a movement’s leaders and silence its radio and TV stations, is to send a loud message to … Islamists everywhere.' Photograph: Xinhua /Landov / Barcroft Media
Even the most global events, those whose reverberations are felt far beyond their borders, are rooted in the specific and the local. This week's coup d'etat in Egypt, the army stepping in to remove and then arrest the democratically elected president, is no different. The toppling of Mohamed Morsi had a hundred causes, many of them wholly peculiar to Egypt. A choice example: Morsi wanted to close all shops at 10pm, so that Egyptians would be fully rested in time for morning prayers. That didn't go down well in famously nocturnal Cairo where, as the New Yorker put it, "there are still traffic jams at 2am and where internet usage peaks at 12.45am".
Still, what happens in Egypt matters outside Egypt. The country is just too important to keep its upheavals to itself. Consider that one in four Arabs are said to be Egyptian, the ancient nation repeatedly setting the lead the rest of the Arab world follows. One example: within a decade or two of Nasser taking power in the early 50s, similar regimes were in place in Iraq, Libya, Syria and Sudan.
One analyst says that the implications of these latest events will resonate even further, reaching Indonesia, Pakistan and every place where Muslims form the majority. Of course the nearer neighbours are affected most directly. The ambitious Gulf state of Qatar, Morsi's fellow Islamists in Turkey and the Muslim brothers of Hamas are among the initial losers, each having invested heavily in the one-year president only to see that investment evaporate. But the fallout spreads far wider. For this represents a deep blow not just to Morsi and the other Brotherhood leaders rounded up on the generals' orders – some of them jailed in the very same prison that houses Hosni Mubarak and his sons. It strikes at a larger project, namely the creation of a modern and viable form of political Islam, one that aspires not merely to be a movement of protest, but capable of government. Granted a trial run on the biggest possible stage, that show has now closed after just a year.
What to make of this failure of the Islamist experiment? The hostile will give a smug shrug and say this was no surprise. Citing the conduct of the man who before Morsi was most regularly named as the potential model of moderate Islamism, Turkey's Recep Tayyip Erdoğan – who last month crushed a wave of anti-government protests – they will sigh and regret without sincerity that this proves Islam and democracy are simply incompatible. They might repeat that oft-quoted nugget of cynicism, that in the Muslim world democracy means "one man, one vote, one time". In this view, the Egyptian election of 2012 was always bound to be a freak event, never to be repeated.
Defenders of Islamism will say the problem lay not within, but without – that the Morsi brand of political Islam was denied the chance to prove itself, strangled at birth by the forces that took back control this week. In this version, the Brotherhood was cheated of power it had won fair and square.
Less straightforward is the view of those who dream of a secular, liberal democracy flowering in Egypt. Many are cheered by this week's events: the theocrats have been scattered, their power-grabbing constitution suspended. Liberals might concede that, yes, this victory came about in strange fashion, delivered by the very armed forces they were demonstrating against 18 months ago. But there are coping mechanisms available to deal with such contradictions, denial chief among them. Note the message in English on the front of the al-Tahrir newspaper – "It's a revolution … not a coup, Mr Obama!" – or the delicate term chosen by the Egyptian novelist Ahdaf Soueif, who insisted this was not a coup, but a "deposal".
Yet this is to underestimate the danger of what has happened. To remove an elected president, to arrest a movement's leaders and silence its radio and TV stations, is to send a loud message to them and to Islamists everywhere. It says: you have no place in the political system. It says: there is no point trying to forge a version of political Islam compatible with democracy, because democracy will not be available to you.
It is the same message sent in Algeria two decades ago, when Islamists were on course to win an election but were pushed aside in a military coup before they could take power; and similarly in Gaza in 2006, when Hamas won the votes but were internationally shunned. Except this week, the point has been rammed home in one of the largest, historically mightiest Muslim nations. Chatham House's Nadim Shehadi worries that, after this week, "extremists will tell moderates, 'Don't even bother fighting elections. This is what happens to us if we win.'".
In Egypt the peril is very clear, made vivid by Friday's fear, partly realised, that the pro-Morsi forces' "day of rejection" would turn violent. The Muslim Brotherhood could, once again, be driven underground. It renounced violence long ago and few believe it will go back. But more radical jihadist voices – recall that at al-Qaida's helm is Ayman al-Zawahiri, an Egyptian – will now have a powerful rhetorical weapon. You tried the democratic route, they will say. And look where it got you.
The specific challenge for Egypt now is to somehow stop this pendulum swing from secular, military-backed dictatorship to illiberal democracy and back again, in which one set of masters seeks to replace entirely the other – typified by Morsi's winner-takes-all approach to power. A more durable accommodation would surely recognise that Islamist and secular Egypt have to live together and share power. That will require the Muslim Brotherhood not to draw the conclusion that they cannot rule democratically, but that they cannot rule alone.
The west are not detached bystanders in all this. US influence in the region may be diminishing, but in Egypt it retains power of the rawest kind: its $1.3bn in military aid gives it all but a veto over the Egyptian armed forces – aid, incidentally, that under US law will be cut off if Obama dares use the word "coup". The US could have used that muscle to head off this crisis months ago, pressuring the army and Morsi to come to an agreement. (Instead, secretary of state John Kerry seems more excited chasing the dream of an Israeli-Palestinian peace, even though the signs there are hardly encouraging.) That way, says Shehadi, Morsi would have been allowed to serve out his term, eventually be ridiculed as corrupt and incompetent, lose the next election – "and we'd have forgotten political Islamism for a generation". Instead, he and his movement will be martyrs.
Of course, it's hard not to root for the crowds in Tahrir Square, thrilled to be rid of a man apparently bent on becoming a theocratic tyrant. But the manner of his departure could pave the way for something far worse – for Egypt and beyond.
Twitter: @freedland
========================================================================
My personal comment:
I think the Egyptian Army made a serious mistake by removing a democratically elected govt. They simply do not have any legal right to do this, just because there is so many millions demonstrating.
As a result, Egypt will now burn.
My advice to Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood supporters would be to demonstrate peacefully without getting into violence. If a new election is called, participate in this election and try to win again. If the election is fair, accept the results, regardless of who wins. If the election is rigged, only then there is a place for fighting back a corrupt system that will not give fair election.
Enemy's of Muslims are out to prove that Muslims cannot work with and function in a democracy. They are trying to topple AKP in Turkey. Tunisia is hanging on. Recent election in Pakistan was great. Bangladesh is a lost cause, secular thugs are ruling and plan to remain in power with rigged elections. Lets see how things turn out in Egypt.
My call to Egyptian brothers, please give democracy a chance. If democracy is not allowed with rigged election or banning any political party, only then action should be taken against the enemy. They can remove Morsi, but they should not be allowed to take away democracy or rig elections. Lets try to fight with ballot boxes again. Lets not turn away from democracy, not just yet. Lets show to the world that Muslims can and will work with democracy and even will fight for their democratic rights, if it is taken away from them in a rigged election.
Yabgu
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Good luck with that... L
Ceylal
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