Egypt | Army Ousts Mursi govt, violence erupts | News & Discussions

[hussain0216]

Good analysis, the idiot secular slime haven't ended political islam in Egypt they've made them into martyrs

The analysis is correct if after 4 years the M.B had been terrible they would have been destroyed in the elections not to be seen again for a generation

Now they are martyrs, the disposed,

They now have righteous indignation on their side, endless fuel for their speeches

They have a Hugh base and the liberals have ensured the M.B will be back stronger than ever

 

[mdcp]

Problem for muslim countries is corrupt militaries and generals, unfortunately what happened in Egypt is very bad, how a genetal can oust elected president, it was all regime and remains of husne mubarak(military, judiciay, gulf, snd west) against honest and lyal muslim leadership

 

[Solomon2]

Problem for muslim countries is corrupt militaries and generals, unfortunately what happened in Egypt is very bad, how a genetal can oust elected president -

It's been pointed out over and over again that the M-B was busy undermining the democratic system that brought them to power as well as doing nothing to alleviate Egypt's economic crisis.

 

[kalu_miah]

How close to a civil war Egypt is right now?

Egyptians would know better. But many here are biased.

My personal take, Muslim Brotherhood supporters will vent their outrage and hopefully will show that they have bigger crowds than the anti-Morsi crowd. They may even try to take over Tahrir square from the anti-Morsi crowd. But after a few months, they will back down and gear up for elections, if there is a quick election. If they are not allowed to take part in election, then the situation may turn dangerous.

 

[Sedqal]

It's been pointed out over and over again that the M-B was busy undermining the democratic system that brought them to power as well as doing nothing to alleviate Egypt's economic crisis.

Well its a hard sell considering Egyptian Army was very silent during the long thirty years of dictatorship. Its funny too Egyptian Army in action to stop an elected govt from undermining democratic system

 

[mdcp]

U can not justify the wrong doing of militay coup, it was better for ppl and world for long run jlto stay and see as the time passes the progress of govt. and result
Unfortunately, the militaries and media create so much propaganda to malign good islamic govt. for their vested interests mind these were holding all resources and power and all these demonstrations were planned by agencies

 

[hussain0216]

That's what the "liberal scum" accomplished. But Egyptians are Egyptians first; their religious identity is separate. Furthermore, their sense of nationalism is very strong. They all tend to move together. I can guess that only a few tens of thousands of Egyptians extremists will be willing to act the way you ask - and they are just drops in the ocean compared to the millions the anti-Morsi advocates mobilized.

Indeed, if there is a sustained bout of terror, I'd first believe it would be due to foreign elements, not Egyptians themselves.

There are millions, not a few thousand

There base is the poor and conservative who care about basics like food and water not the liberal tamarod crowd who want the right to screw around and not be judged as *****

Give it another year combine the Muslim brotherhoods new martyr status with their righteous indignation and another tough economic year where the poor will face more hardship and the only option for the new government is to increase their hardship in order to fix the economic mess then you will have a Muslim brotherhood bigger and stronger than ever

If only egyptian liberals were dumb enough to push through gay marriage or something then their coffins would be ready

 

[hussain0216]

The situation in Egypt is too tough to fix quickly, thats why I hate this coup

Poor morsi was an honest man, but neither he nor any president could fix the egyptian mess in a year not even superman could

The Muslim brothers should NOT give the fake liberal regime any legitimacy
Refuse to take part in elections

Then wait

Let the liberal scum deal with the mess and hard decisions any government in the same position would end up being despised

The Muslim brothers if they plan it right could be stronger than ever in the future

 

[kalu_miah]

The situation in Egypt is too tough to fix quickly, thats why I hate this coup

Poor morsi was an honest man, but neither he nor any president could fix the egyptian mess in a year not even superman could

The Muslim brothers should NOT give the fake liberal regime any legitimacy
Refuse to take part in elections

Then wait

Let the liberal scum deal with the mess and hard decisions any government in the same position would end up being despised

The Muslim brothers if they plan it right could be stronger than ever in the future

So you think in a way it was blessing in disguise for MB? Let the liberals deal with the current economic mess that will make them even more unpopular?

But why not take part in the election and win it again? May be this time they can avoid some of the mistakes they made in the past. They need more MB supporters among Army and police ranks. I think they need to learn more from AKP in Turkey, how to improve the economy and to bring Army and police to their side. May be they can get more Turkish advisers if they get re-elected.

I think MB will try to get re-elected again, if they see a possibility of a fair election and a fair chance at winning. No political party wants to stay out of power, unless they are forced to.

 

[Desertfalcon]

The problem was not that Morsi couldn't fix the mess and the problem with the OP is that people have an incorrect sense of what democracy IS. Democracy is far more than the idea of, "We won the election and so now we can use the power of the state to do what we want.". It's about individual rights and freedom, transparency and accountability, respect for religious and ideological minorities, etc. By it's very nature, true democracy entails belief that government is limited and ought to stay out of people's private lives. A democracy's job is to govern justly and well, not re-make the society into an Islamacist state. Morsi's problem is not that he couldn't fix things. It was that he assumed that by winning an election, he had a mandate to move Egypt toward Islamic authoritarianism. That is not why the Egyptian people elected him to begin with and because of that, they naturally turned on him.

 

[kalu_miah]

The problem was not that Morsi couldn't fix the mess and the problem with the OP is that people have an incorrect sense of what democracy IS. Democracy is far more than the idea of, "We won the election and so now we can use the power of the state to do what we want.". It's about individual rights and freedom, transparency and accountability, respect for religious and ideological minorities, etc. By it's very nature, true democracies entails belief that government is limited and ought to stay out of people's private lives. A democracies job is tro govern justly and well, not re-make the society into an Islamacist state. Morsi's problem is not that he couldn't fix things. It was that he assumed that by winning an election, he had a mandate to move Egypt toward Islamic authoritarianism. That is not why the Egyptian people elected him to begin with and because of that, they naturally turned on him.

That is what anti-Morsi crowd would like you to believe. When you win an election, you do have mandate. And Democracy in any place, even in the West is work in progress and Egypt is starting with democracy, so they need time to evolve on their own terms, not what others would impose on them.

And Egyptian people did not turn on him, it was a few million anti-Morsi crowd and some Egyptian Army generals who turned on him.

When all party's went to election and participated, the deal is that they have to accept the result and wait for the ballot box in 4 years. If there are grievances, they have to be solved within the system in place, not throw away everything with an Army coup.

 

[hussain0216]

Yes, basically Pakistan and Egypt are similar in some ways. In order to fix the economic problems of the country the leader/government needs to take some hard and very very very painful decisions

Increase taxes and tax collection, end subsidies etc etc

The nation needs a decade of pain in order to fix itself so it can grow

Whichever government does this it will be the best for the nation but it will be intensely hated and it and it's leader will need to sacrifice themselves in order to fix the state

It will also require near complete support from the opposition


The M.B should NOT go for power let the liberal deal with the mess, and then place itself as the legitimate party and increase its support

 

[Desertfalcon]

That is what anti-Morsi crowd would like you to believe. When you win an election, you do have mandate. And Democracy in any place, even in the West is work in progress and Egypt is starting with democracy, so they need time to evolve on their own terms, not what others would impose on them.

And Egyptian people did not turn on him, it was a few million anti-Morsi crowd and some Egyptian Army generals who turned on him.

When all party's went to election and participated, the deal is that they have to accept the result and wait for the ballot box in 4 years. If there are grievances, they have to be solved within the system in place, not throw away everything with an Army coup.

Well, again, winning an election does not mean that you have a mandate to begin imposing authoritarian changes as when Morsi granted himself unlimited powers to "protect" the nation and the power to legislate without judicial oversight or review of his acts. That is not how democracies function. That is not what the people elected him to do. As I said, a democracy is not just wining one election and thinking you have a mandate to do what you want or to impose your ideas on society.

As to the protest, had they only been a "few million", that would have been huge in itself but the protests were far bigger than that. Most estimates are that between 12 to 14 million Egyptians took to the streets to demand Morsi and the MB's ouster. That is far larger than the protests against even Mubarak. I mean, what else could have happened? The army could remove one man and his cohorts or they could have launch military action against....12 to 14 million people? Come on! Egypt was paralyzed and the army was the only institution that could have restored order. The army, to it's credit, was not about to use force on 12 or 14 million people. That would have been tragic and would have turned Egypt into another Syria. The army did the only reasonable and humane thing it could do.

 

[Saleem]

The failure of this Islamist experiment poses a danger far beyond Egypt | Jonathan Freedland | Comment is free | The Guardian

The failure of this Islamist experiment poses a danger far beyond Egypt

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and the stink from poop poses a pollution problem for the world.....

 

[kalu_miah]

Well, again, winning an election does not mean that you have a mandate to begin imposing authoritarian changes as when Morsi granted himself unlimited powers to "protect" the nation and the power to legislate without judicial oversight or review of his acts. That is not how democracies function. That is not what the people elected him to do. As I said, a democracy is not just wining one election and thinking you have a mandate to do what you want or to impose your ideas on society.

As to the protest, had they only been a "few million", that would have been huge in itself but the protests were far bigger than that. Most estimates are that between 12 to 14 million Egyptians took to the streets to demand Morsi and the MB's ouster. That is far larger than the protests against even Mubarak. I mean, what else could have happened? The army could remove one man and his cohorts or they could have launch military action against....12 to 14 million people? Come on! Egypt was paralyzed and the army was the only institution that could have restored order. The army, to it's credit, was not about to use force on 12 or 14 million people. That would have been tragic and would have turned Egypt into another Syria. The army did the only reasonable and humane thing it could do.

It is very easy to judge from outside, you and I do not know the situation on the ground well, what prompted Morsi to act the way he did.

As for the protest having 12 to 14 million, some are claiming 33 million in comments from anti-Morsi Egyptians on the web, so it is hard to tell the actual numbers. But protests cannot be a legitimate means to change govt. In a democracy, only ballot box can do that. Democracy ensures the right for protesting peacefully, not taking law into your own hand and remove a elected govt. using their supporters in Armed forces.

In any case, if you read my previous comments, my hope is that Brotherhood will not go for violence even after this illegitimate coup and rather wait for the next election to fight their opponents with ballot box, not in street battles. Let the party with most votes win.