Egypt | Army Ousts Mursi govt, violence erupts | News & Discussions

[hussain0216]

The MB had no intentions of building a democratic process in Egypt. To them democracy is an event that happens every four years not a continuous process.

The result still stands above ten-twenty percent of the Egyptian electorate, however, the constitution was illegitimate even before being put to a referendum.

The army did not act out of its own accord. It accepted the call of over 17+ million protesters calling for presidential elections and using their only standing democratic institution to call for this, the street. If the elected house of parliament was still standing then that could have been used to influence the government and the presidency, however, it isn't so what else did protesters have that they could use for their voices to be heard except the street.



A combination of voter fatigue and apathy as well as wide boycotts. The opposition in the streets over the past week were not only those who opposed the MB since Morsi was elected. The ordinary Egyptian man and woman who had no ideological beliefs or affiliations were what made these protests so big (many of whom voted for Morsi and were sympathetic to the MB). The presidency rejected any amendments(to the constitution) until the day before Morsi was removed (that in itself says something doesn't it).

Democracy is more than a ballot in plastic box.

Pathetic, simply pathetic

You should be ashamed of yourself

Democracy isn't one man one vote, it is one man (or women) one chance to vote

It is pathetic watching you and your liberal ilk trying to legitimise the illegitimate

The bottom line is ovrr 60 percent of egyptian voters voted for the constitution in a referendum and over 50 percent voted for the president
That's it, everyone got a chance to vote and those were the results the same in every other democracy in the world,

You the losers don't then get to play funny maths with the results afterwards

If your too lazy to vote that's your problem
If your too stupid to not understand the consequences of not voting then that's your problem

You don't sit at home not vote then complain about and play funny maths with the results

THIS IS A COUP
THE LIBERAL TAMAROD SLIME ARE TRAITORS

the military had plans for a takeover in their minds since the beginning, they just needed the right chance

The reality is not just a lack of respect for democracy or the democratic results, it is lntolerence of someone else's views

The liberal slime hate Muslims, hate the brotherhood so hell to democracy or fairness or respect for people vote, lets just create chaos and let the same army who has ruled and caused this mess from the beginning to instigate a coup, who cares as long as muslims are out and the liberals can implement their desires

Pathetic, you people are a joke and I hope the Muslim brothers keep fighting they have the support of every true Muslim and lover of democracy in the world

 

[Frogman]

1. Bring together all political parties and groups to write a new constitution, and make sure that constitution has a clause that referendum must have a minimum participation rate of lets say 67% (2/3) of the electorate

It will be the Interim governments job to draft an assembly to amend the current constitution (it has only been dissolved temporarily). The military contacted the MB in order to involve them in the transitional phase, the MB declined favouring confrontation to bring Morsi back into power. The normal Egyptian man and woman will not sacrifice their rights again(hopefully).

2. Another clause could be that of impeaching non-performing Presidents in a referendum, and according to this clause, a referendum could be held to impeach Morsi. If impeachment fails then Morsi would be reinstated

I agree, adequate checks and balances must be placed on governmental powers.

More than anything else, the basic fundamental covenant in a democracy is the constitution that at least 67% or two thirds majority (or higher) agree on and the Armed forces are duty bound to protect this constitution as their first loyalty, not any particular political party or religion.

Correct. The armed forces only intervened because of the masses and not a particular party or religion. It enjoyed the same position it did under Mubarak under the MB. It must be brought under civilian oversight but this may take decades.

Thanks for the debate. Peace. If you wish to debate further I will be more than happy to.

 

[hussain0216]

Some of these liberal excuses are hilarious

"The only reason the Muslim brotherhood won was because they were too organised"

??????????? So what that's your friken problem get more organised

It's like saying the only reason the Muslim brotherhood won was because they got more votes, if they didn't get more votes they would have lost

 

[Luffy 500]

The bottom line is liberal suckular scumbags couldn't ever hoped to go to power the legal way and hence opted for a back door coup to get a taste of power. Well Egypt is not the only muslim state that is suffering from these suckular parasites. Fanatic Suckular liberal scums are the biggest problem in the muslim world and they don't technically even fit the western defination secularsim but are outright anti-islamic bigots hell bent to destroy a country from inside. El baradie, Army, Copts and their suckular ilk would do well to remember that 80 years fanatic kelamism, frequent coups, Hanging of PM Adnan Menderes couldn't forment their grip on power in turkey and stop the rise of Islamic and other non-suckular parties. MB won't just vanish but if they play their cards right they can put these zionist suckular filths in their place.

 

[scherz]

Alexandria:
A mob pushing two of the surrounded group from 5m on the roof.
And attacked repeatly with a stick.

 

[hussain0216]

I have a feeling the copts are going to get hit hard for their treachery

 

[flamer84]

Thanks for the great videos.

What is the role of Coptic Christians in the recent protest and Army coup?

Allready trying to find the conveniant scapegoats aren't you?

 

[Frogman]

Pathetic, simply pathetic

You should be ashamed of yourself

Ok.

Democracy isn't one man one vote, it is one man (or women) one chance to vote

Which translate to one man one vote. What is your point in regards to this sentence because its beyond me.

It is pathetic watching you and your liberal ilk trying to legitimise the illegitimate

I haven't been disrespectful or rude to any who support Morsi or hold a different view than mine, I ask of you to do the same.

The bottom line is ovrr 60 percent of egyptian voters voted for the constitution in a referendum and over 50 percent voted for the president
That's it, everyone got a chance to vote and those were the results the same in every other democracy in the world,

The problem with the Egyptian constitution is that it was illegitimate to begin with. With multiple parties and religious figures pulling out of the constitutional assembly it was no longer a constitution drafted and supported by all parties and sects/religions that are present in current day Egyptian society and so it was illegitimate before being put to referendum. Referendums are not legally binding and so can be ignored for example Scottish devolution referendum, 1979 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is universally accepted that if a constitution does not receive major support in a referendum or otherwise then it must go back to the drawing board.

Again, democracy is a continuous process and not just a ballot in a box.

You the losers don't then get to play funny maths with the results afterwards

......

If your too lazy to vote that's your problem
If your too stupid to not understand the consequences of not voting then that's your problem

Because of the consecutive elections and referendums there was major voter apathy and fatigue plus boycotts from the opposition as to how this constitution was drafted and put to a referendum, however, I do agree with the general point you are making.

You don't sit at home not vote then complain about and play funny maths with the results

If that's aimed at me then I will not reply simply out of respect.

THIS IS A COUP
THE LIBERAL TAMAROD SLIME ARE TRAITORS

Tamarod gained 22 million signatures. Are you seriously accusing 22 million Egyptians of treason?

the military had plans for a takeover in their minds since the beginning, they just needed the right chance

And who provided this chance on a silver platter. The military also made deals with the MB or don't they remember gathering in Tahrir Sq. supporting military rule in response to those who were against it (and now chant for it, there is hypocrisy on both sides).

The military had been trying to hold reconciliation talks for the past six months and provided a week before the 30th of June, the presidency refused to hold talks and so sealed its own fate. This move certainly wasn't a surprise.

This may be a coup, but, its a coup as a result of mass protests withdrawing the presidents legitimacy and as the (illegitimate) Egyptian constitution doesn't provide a constitutional process to transition or compromise the military had to step in.

The reality is not just a lack of respect for democracy or the democratic results, it is lntolerence of someone else's views

The MB and the presidency had no intention of setting up a democratic process in Egypt and its plainly obvious as he acted beyond his mandate and didn't keep his pre-election promises (Didnt carry out what was in his manifesto, also undemocratic). Everyone has the right to free speech as long as it doesn't incite hatred or violence, something the presidency and some today from both sides seem to understand.

The liberal slime hate Muslims, hate the brotherhood so hell to democracy or fairness or respect for people vote, lets just create chaos and let the same army who has ruled and caused this mess from the beginning to instigate a coup, who cares as long as muslims are out and the liberals can implement their desires

Over 85% of Egypt is Muslim. It was a religious nation before Morsi and will be after him.

The first chant "Allahu Akbar"

The Egyptian people will no longer tolerate any political or religious agenda which suppresses their rights or threatens their revolution.

Pathetic, you people are a joke and I hope the Muslim brothers keep fighting they have the support of every true Muslim and lover of democracy in the world

I seriously have no comment to make about this.

I have a feeling the copts are going to get hit hard for their treachery

Freedom of speech is allowed as long it doesn't incite hatred or violence....

For someone who talks of democracy and tolerance of other views you do not practice what you preach.

Some of these liberal excuses are hilarious

"The only reason the Muslim brotherhood won was because they were too organised"

??????????? So what that's your friken problem get more organised

It's like saying the only reason the Muslim brotherhood won was because they got more votes, if they didn't get more votes they would have lost

Its an explanation of one of the reasons not the only reason.

 

[Jihad_]

Israel is very happy with the coup and gives the army a warm pat on the back.

Egypt closes Gaza border crossing indefinitely

Egyptian army demolishes tunnels with Gaza

IDF on Sinai border: Security coordination with Egypt continues despite political upheaval

It's in the interest of both sides to fight terror cells, says liaison officer; 'Egyptians are doing good work.'

 

[Frogman]

Israel is very happy with the coup and gives the army a warm pat on the back.

Four reasons why Israel may miss Egypt's Mohammed Morsi after all - Diplomacy & Defense - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper

The relationship didn't change under Morsi and may not change under a future regime. However, if a true representational regime is elected after the transitional phase (or phases) then the relationship will ultimately change.

 

[Jihad_]

An army officer joins a pro morsi demostration

 

[Frogman]

An army officer joins a pro morsi demostration

I would advise you to change that statement to:- Alleged armed forces "officer" seen participating in Pro-Morsi rally.

For two reasons:

1- There isn't any conformation that he is an officer or member of the armed forces (No pictures or videos of him showing his military ID). Impersonating a military figure is also illegal.

2- At this current time there are those who want to divide the Egyptian military and its people.

Peace.

 

[Jihad_]

I would advise you to change that statement to:- Alleged armed forces "officer" seen participating in Pro-Morsi rally.

For two reasons:

1- There isn't any conformation that he is an officer or member of the armed forces (No pictures or videos of him showing his military ID). Impersonating a military figure is also illegal.

2- At this current time there are those who want to divide the Egyptian military and its people.

Peace.

But they are divided... The army is also divided on the coup... That's what I heard, this is the first real confirmation... Hope many will follow suit...

 

[Frogman]

But they are divided... The army is also divided on the coup... That's what I heard, this is the first real confirmation... Hope many will follow suit...

True to an extent in terms of its peoples. However, the military is not divided nor can it nor will it be.

One thing that is surprising to me is that this "officer" is in his formal uniform and not his BDU and there arent any Conscripts or soldiers with him especially at a time when there is major military presence in Egypt. This makes me suspicious.

Please edit your posts title until there is either confirmation (by way of his ID or statement from the military) that he is indeed an officer or an arrest made with the charge of impersonating a military figure (as many have been over the past few days).

 

[Jihad_]

It is important to understand Washington’s role, which is carried out by the Pentagon and US intelligence.

While the Armed Forces have cracked down on the Muslim Brotherhood, the Coup d’Etat is ultimately intended to manipulate the protest movement and prevent the accession of a “real people’s government”.
The overthrow of President Mohamed Morsi by the Egyptian Armed forces was not carried out against US interests, it was instigated to ensure “continuity” on behalf of Washington.

Defense Minister General Abdul Fatah Al-Sisi who was behind the Coup d’Etat directed against President Morsi was in permanent liaison by telephone with US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel from the very outset of the protest movement. Press reports confirm that he consulted him several times in the days leading up to the Coup d’Etat. It is highly unlikely that General Al Sisi would have acted without a ‘green light” from the Pentagon.


The Muslim Brotherhood government was supported by the US from the outset. At the same time important sectors of the protest movement directed against the Brotherhood were also supported by the US, through US foundations, including the National Endowment for Democracy and Freedom House. The Kifaya movement, which organized one of the first protests directed against the Mubarak regime in late 2004, and which is currently involved in the movement against the Brotherhood is supported by the US based International Center for Non-Violent Conflict.


These actions by US foundations linked to the US State Department ensure that the US funded civil society opposition will not address the broader issue of foreign interference in the affairs of a sovereign state.

The US supports both sides with a view to creating divisions within Egyptian society as well political chaos.

The puppet masters so to speak support the protest movement against their own puppets. Its called “political leveraging”: support the Muslim Brotherhood as well as the opponents of the Morsi government, as a means to manipulating the mass movement, creating social and sectarian divisions and preventing the emergence of a sovereign national government.


Meanwhile the Western media has skillfully portrayed the Egyptian military as anti-American, following the recall of the US ambassador to Egypt Ann Patterson. This action is a useful smokescreen which obfuscates Washington’s role in the Coup d’Etat: the instigators of the Coup d’Etat are not “anti-American, they take their orders directly from the Pentagon.

Michel Chossudovsky, July 6, 2013