Efforts increase to prevent interfaith marriage in India

[Joe Shearer]

But Joe, this behaviour happens on a daily basis on multiple threads. Insulting Hindus, their ethnicity, their gods, their practices. I personally don't care because end of the day all these are man made, just like Pizza and contesting on such issues is like saying 'My pizza is better than yours'. I don't care if someone thinks their Pizza is better than mine, as long as they:

1. Do not force me to eat their Pizza
2. Do not try to tell me how to eat my Pizza
3. Do not control where my Pizza comes from

As regards the Creator, there is only one ultimately, if one chooses to believe in a creator. You insult my creator, you are insulting yours.

You are right, but this is the reciprocal of my abhorrence of the dreadful things that Sanghis come and say, that I have opposed from my first day here nearly 13 years ago. The fact that I oppose Hindutvavadi worms does not mean that I have to shut my eyes to bigots of another kind, who spout similar hate speech.

 

[jamahir]

There is this thing going around among the chosen that you are a false-flagging Hindu, unable to quote glibly from the sources that the chosen might have had in mind.

I see. LOL. I got a sense of that day-before-yesterday when MultaniGuy tagged in the management.

About sources, I have quoted once or twice and will do so again as appropriate. Also, it's funny the chosen believe this so despite me being among the very few Muslims here who have project Islam - through article OPs and posts - to be a progressive ideology. Do they think my long membership here is really a deep, strange Hindutvadi campaign to project Islam to be a progressive, older Socialist revolution ?

The fact that I oppose Hindutvavadi worms does not mean that I have to shut my eyes to bigots of another kind, who spout similar hate speech.

This burqa thing in India has made a lot of the forum right-wing Muslim variety.

I meant your country's religion.

To make this all clear, you are a member since 2008 and I since 2014 with almost 24,000 posts. Did you not know that I am a Communist Muslim ?

 

[ApparentRaceTraitor]

But Joe, this behaviour happens on a daily basis on multiple threads. Insulting Hindus, their ethnicity, their gods, their practices. I personally don't care because end of the day all these are man made, just like Pizza and contesting on such issues is like saying 'My pizza is better than yours'. I don't care if someone thinks their Pizza is better than mine, as long as they:

1. Do not force me to eat their Pizza
2. Do not try to tell me how to eat my Pizza
3. Do not control where my Pizza comes from

As regards the Creator, there is only one ultimately, if one chooses to believe in a creator. You insult my creator, you are insulting yours.

All pizzas are equal under the eyes of the Pizza Gods




Except pineapple on pizza...blasphemous monstrosity

 

[Joe Shearer]

All pizzas are equal under the eyes of the Pizza Gods




Except pineapple on pizza...blasphemous monstrosity

I agree with the pineapple being blasphemous, and liable to serious, aah, objections.

I see. LOL. I got a sense of that day-before-yesterday when MultaniGuy tagged in the management.

About sources, I have quoted once or twice and will do so again as appropriate. Also, it's funny the chosen believe this so despite me being among the very few Muslims here who have project Islam - through article OPs and posts - to be a progressive ideology. Do they think my long membership here is really a deep, strange Hindutvadi campaign to project Islam to be a progressive, older Socialist revolution ?




This burqa thing in India has made a lot of the forum right-wing Muslim variety.



To make this all clear, you are a member since 2008 and I since 2014 with almost 24,000 posts. Did you not know that I am a Communist Muslim ?

The problem is that the individual right to wear clothing of her (or his) choice of students has been hijacked by the Sanghi and by trouble-making Islamists for their own purposes.

All that is on another thread, and it is better to confine our discussion on that topic to that thread.

 

[khansaheeb]

I see. LOL. I got a sense of that day-before-yesterday when MultaniGuy tagged in the management.

About sources, I have quoted once or twice and will do so again as appropriate. Also, it's funny the chosen believe this so despite me being among the very few Muslims here who have project Islam - through article OPs and posts - to be a progressive ideology. Do they think my long membership here is really a deep, strange Hindutvadi campaign to project Islam to be a progressive, older Socialist revolution ?




This burqa thing in India has made a lot of the forum right-wing Muslim variety.



To make this all clear, you are a member since 2008 and I since 2014 with almost 24,000 posts. Did you not know that I am a Communist Muslim ?

Communist Muslim-Only an Indian can be that. No I didn't know you were one, I didn't know there are such people in the world, but you are from incredible India.

 

[jamahir]

Communist Muslim-Only an Indian can be that. No I didn't know you were one, I didn't know there are such people in the world, but you are from incredible India.

You are currently uneducated and unsophisticated and hence don't know that. Muslims all over have been modern Communists and Socialists since the early 1900s. The famous landmark called Lal Chowk in Srinagar, capital of current India-administered Kashmir, was named so before Partition by local Muslim and Sikh Communists taking inspiration from the Red Square in Moscow in their agitation against Hari Singh, the raja of the region.

You should read this thread of mine from 2016 whose OP is an article by the Pakistani journalist Nadeem Paracha and is about historic Muslim participation and taking inspiration from Communism and Socialism. I quote a section :

During the same period (1920s-30s), another (though lesser known) Islamic scholar in undivided India got smitten by the 1917 Russian revolution and Marxism.

Hafiz Rahman Sihwarwl saw Islam and Marxism sharing five elements in common: (1) prohibition of the accumulation of wealth in the hands of the privileged classes (2) organisation of the economic structure of the state to ensure social welfare (3) equality of opportunity for all human beings (4) priority of collective social interest over individual privilege and (5) prevention of the permanentising of class structure through social revolution.

The motivations for many of these themes he drew from the Qur’an, which he understood as seeking to create an economic order in which the rich pay excessive, though voluntary taxes (Zakat) to minimise differences in living standards.

In the areas that Sihwarwl saw Islam and communism diverge were Islam’s sanction of private ownership within certain limits, and in its refusal to recognise an absolutely classless basis of society.

He suggested that Islam, with its prohibition of the accumulation of wealth, is able to control the class structure through equality of opportunity.

Basically, both Sindhi and Sihwarwl had stumbled upon an Islamic concept of the social democratic welfare state.

There have been entire Communist and Socialist Muslim movements and countries. See my profile picture. What do you think Libya was before 2011 ?

And you are in Britain. You have the Pakistan-origin Communist Tariq Ali living there and whose parents in undivided India ( before Partition ) and in Pakistan were Communists.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

Humans are born free and must be free to choose who they marry. The people who can have some objection, or say, before marriage are their own family which is a private matter. I believe in the Islamic rules of marriage, but it should not be the state's business to control who marries who. If people decide not to marry by Islamic rule, or by Hindu rule, or marry by one or more ways, whichever they choose, this should be none of the state's business whose role is to register marriage.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

I should add, marriage by definition, at least in the Eastern context, is between male and female.

 

[Chak Bamu]

But Joe, this behaviour happens on a daily basis on multiple threads. Insulting Hindus, their ethnicity, their gods, their practices. I personally don't care because end of the day all these are man made, just like Pizza and contesting on such issues is like saying 'My pizza is better than yours'. I don't care if someone thinks their Pizza is better than mine, as long as they:

1. Do not force me to eat their Pizza
2. Do not try to tell me how to eat my Pizza
3. Do not control where my Pizza comes from

As regards the Creator, there is only one ultimately, if one chooses to believe in a creator. You insult my creator, you are insulting yours.

Sensible post. In fact Muslims are prohibited to insult other religious figures & gods, precisely because when such behavior provokes a reaction, it really is on the Muslim who starts it. One may not believe another's religion to be complete truth, but that is no license to abuse.

If I were moderating, I would delete any post that makes fun of Hindu religion. One may discuss within norms of decency while practicing ethics of civilized disagreement. What Turkish kings did many hundreds of years ago is no reason to have a quarrel over religion.

 

[Longhorn]

You are right, but this is the reciprocal of my abhorrence of the dreadful things that Sanghis come and say, that I have opposed from my first day here nearly 13 years ago. The fact that I oppose Hindutvavadi worms does not mean that I have to shut my eyes to bigots of another kind, who spout similar hate speech.

Bald men fighting over a comb that no one is sure exists in the first place, and if it does, no one knows what it looks like and what it was meant to be used for.
It'd be quite funny if it wasn't so tragic.

But Joe, this behaviour happens on a daily basis on multiple threads. Insulting Hindus, their ethnicity, their gods, their practices. I personally don't care because end of the day all these are man made, just like Pizza and contesting on such issues is like saying 'My pizza is better than yours'. I don't care if someone thinks their Pizza is better than mine, as long as they:

1. Do not force me to eat their Pizza
2. Do not try to tell me how to eat my Pizza
3. Do not control where my Pizza comes from

As regards the Creator, there is only one ultimately, if one chooses to believe in a creator. You insult my creator, you are insulting yours.

What do you think of the pizza the girl students in Karnataka are being forced to eat or are being prevented from eating?

 

[Longhorn]

There is this thing going around among the chosen that you are a false-flagging Hindu, unable to quote glibly from the sources that the chosen might have had in mind.


May I ask that you keep your comments to your own religion, and leave alone that of others of a different persuasion?

If you find a Hindu making unseemly remarks about your religion, please feel free to report that post, rather than descend to trading insults.


You will be amused if you dig a little and find out the background of the Special Marriages Act. A hint: It has to do with the unwillingness of a particular set of believers to be married under the statutes governing Hindu marriages.

Secularism really is the way to go for both India and Pakistan.
It would change the lives of untold millions for the better and usher in an era of stability.
Fundamentalist religion is a millstone around the neck of both countries.

 

[_Nabil_]

Ah, thanks.



That is unfortunate. My commiserations, sir. But didn't you try and convince her family from a legal point of view ? It is wrong that the family and community comes in between two people who want to marry. And I will bring here our Tunisian member, @_Nabil_, for his comments because the Muslim women in his country and their supporting men campaigned for the right of Muslim women to marry non-Muslim men :

Indian Muslims should take lesson from Tunisia. And I will ask Nabil to read my post# 5.

We have our bunch of westerners liberals and "religious" party selling the Religion only to stay in power.

May they rot in hell all of them

Do you expect me to agree on something against my religion, just because the establishment here issued a law against my Religion ???

Also the women that marry a non Muslim are really really rare, at the opposite, Tunisian women bringing non Muslims to Islam via marriage is huge, they become better Muslims than us.

Don't underestimate our womens, they are religious too.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Bald men fighting over a comb that no one is sure exists in the first place, and if it does, no one knows what it looks like and what it was meant to be used for.
It'd be quite funny if it wasn't so tragic.

I'm not quite sure what that was meant to convey, although it did sound funny, especially considering the state of my formerly bushy head of hair.

For the rest, taking a somewhat dense and clueless take on what was said, abhorrent behaviour exists; when people are intimidated, assaulted, injured and killed because of some absolutely trivial factor, such as caste or religion, or, sometimes, language, it is abhorrent.

Secularism exists; it is not the difficult matter that people make it out to be, in their very selfish ways. It consists simply of eliminating religion from all spheres outside personal life. It is not the poor emulation of the multi-cultural model that has been sought to be implemented, with the result being simply that all shades of opinion are offended.

I would be happy to find something funny about the situation, and perhaps, with the unflagging support and dry wit and humour supplied by some observers, it will appear miraculously.

What do you think of the pizza the girl students in Karnataka are being forced to eat or are being prevented from eating?

The question is whether people understand, or fail to understand, that it is about individual liberty. That a student should be allowed to wear whatever she wants to wear within the rules that she accepted right at the outset is a no brainer. Perhaps the precise reason why it has become a controversy.

When in this situation, one segment of society tries to hijack it and make it a religious issue, harassing the students concerned simply because they belong to a religious following that that segment feels hostile towards, it is clearly perverse. Those who then from the other side try to convert it to a matter of religious liberty on very dodgy foundations, foundations that are likely to be struck down by the court hearing the matter, are just as guilty of trying to hijack it for their own ends. It is a pity that the eloquent and articulate lawyer should have taken the tack that he has taken.

So the idea of individual liberty is completely lost, and it becomes a tussle for power between two sets of hijackers. It is not pleasant to equate the two sides, considering that one has consistently been responsible for a very long series of crimes of hate and of religious tolerance against the other, but in this case, it would be less than truthful not to admit that there has been a concerted effort by both sides to win the war of hearts and minds.

That, of course, is another matter; we have the Green Berets dictum on how to handle the winning of hearts and minds, if we wish to re-introduce the coarse humour that some detect in the matter. In a failure to see beyond the headlines and watch with anguish how an ideal was tarnished and defaced by the dregs of society, there are many ironic pieces of humour to be found. Good luck with finding them and having a hearty laugh at everybody else's expense.

 

[Zarvan]

Something Indians are doing which I agree with. At least it would stop Muslim women from marrying Hindus and non Muslims which is forbidden in Islam.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Secularism really is the way to go for both India and Pakistan.
It would change the lives of untold millions for the better and usher in an era of stability.
Fundamentalist religion is a millstone around the neck of both countries.

It is, in fact, the only sane way to go forward. Not even to go forward and progress; simply to go forward.