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Edged-out Eurofighter still hopes to bag IAF fighter deal

Yes It is fact, EFT were first deployed to Libya A2A/A2G. Rafales came later on following a few months, only Mirage 2000-5 were deployed to Libya by French before Rafale came into play. I am Janes Defense paid subscriber, you may pay and get information in time.


Hilarious, but far away from reality and paying for the reports is not enough, reading and understanding them is important too! :D

French Air Force Rafales attack Libya

A French Rafale  plane fired the first shot in Libya at 1645 GMT Saturday 19 March 2011 and destroyed its target, a military vehicle. Around 20 French Rafale aircraft from Saint Dizier/Robinson (LFSI) Air Base were involved in today’s operation...

French Air Force Rafales attack Libya | INTERNATIONAL AVIATION NEWS


First combat missions for UK's RAF Eurofighter Typhoons

London, UK, 22 April 2011 — The United Kingdom is further stepping up its contribution to a UN set No-Fly Zone over Libya. After having led long-range Tornado strikes against ground targets in Libya directly from air bases in England during the opening phase of operation "Odissey Dawn", British aircraft have now redeployed to southern Italy while RAF Typhoon fighters have taken part in their first mission to patrol the zone...

First combat missions for UK's RAF Eurofighter Typhoons

LIBYA: RAF chief details UK operation

The UK Royal Air Force gave the Eurofighter Typhoon its first offensive use on 12 April, when one of its aircraft dropped precision-guided bombs on two Libyan targets...

LIBYA: RAF chief details UK operation


:disagree:
 
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Just as an aside, how does the Libyan situation prove anything about a modern plane's capabilities?

Did the Libyans have anything resembling modern technology to counter those planes?
 
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Yes It is fact, EFT were first deployed to Libya A2A/A2G. Rafales came later on following a few months, only Mirage 2000-5 were deployed to Libya by French before Rafale came into play. I am Janes Defense paid subscriber, you may pay and get information in time.

No Kaveri is 52kN, do your research.

Would ask hindustani members to act like sensible members unlike few jugglers, thread is rated with stars don' ruin it will third class posts.

get your facts right. It was not EFT who went there first. It was french AF coupled with the tomahawks from Persian Gulf/Mediterranean.

And I was talking of a future Kaveri Snecma JV to develop a 90KN thrust engine.

U know, don't even know the facts right. My posts may be third class but your knowledge is worst class
 
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MMRCA After Action: What Lessons Should Eurofighter Learn?
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MMRCA After Action: What Lessons Should Eurofighter Learn?
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What lessons should the Eurofighter Typhoon
consortium draw from India's decision to pursue
MMRCA contract negotiations with rival Dassault
Aviation for the Rafale?
The initial reaction in Eurofighter countries has
been a mix of disappointment and disbelief. What
has been notably absent, so far, is any soul
searching on how this massive tender was lost.
Other losses, such as Japan, could be relatively
easily explained away and did not require such an
after-action assessment; but the India situation is
different. The stakes were simply too high.
There has been little indication that the
consortium members are ready to open that can
of worms. But here are just some of the
questions that may need to be raised:
•Was Germany the right country to lead the
campaign?
•Was the absence of a firm contract to develop
the AESA radar a strategic handicap?
•Did the U.K.'s long reluctance to properly discuss
Typhoon operations in Libya mean Rafale got all
the bragging rights for the campaign?
•Is the diverse consortium structure a handicap in
devising complex offset packages, when it should
be an asset because work can be spread across more companies?
 
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EADS Still Waiting in the Wings - The Source - WSJ
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EADS Still Waiting in the Wings

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Executives at Dassault Aviation, Thales and Safran may have cracked open the champagne this week when the Indian government chose Dassault’s Rafale multirole combat aircraft over the Anglo-German-Italian Eurofighter to supply the Indian Air Force with 126 jets. But like Grand Prix racing, one podium finish doesn’t a champion make.
To be sure, the news that Dassault and New Delhi are now in exclusive talks about delivering the Rafale was welcome for the French. Dassault has still to win an export contract for a plane that the company is marketing as a Swiss army knife for the world’s air forces, capable of air-air, air-ground and land and carrier-based roles.
But Dassault has been here before. Over the
years, it has been reported to be in the final
stages of winning contracts with South Korea,
Morocco, Switzerland, Brazil and the United Arab
Emirates only to see these deals disappear like a
desert mirage.
Not only that, the Indian defense ministry says
the proposal by Dassault involving a technology
transfer on an unprecedented scale for the plane
maker was cheaper than the Eurofighter. That
raised some eyebrows in French government
circles where at least one minister has said that,
while the Rafale may be the most sophisticated
combat aircraft on the market, its complexity
comes at a price.
Indeed, in international arms deals of this
magnitude, it’s not clear what the notion of
“price” is.
The tough negotiating on the Indian contract
starts now, and it could take six months to a year
to iron all the details, especially those governing
technology transfer. The deal as it stands calls for
Dassault to supply the first 18 planes out of a total
of 126 off the shelf while India is setting up a
production line for the rest.
The Team Rafale negotiating the finer points of the
deal comprises specialists from Dassault, Thales
(which supplies radars and avionics) and Safran
(which makes the two M88 engines). The issue of
how much technology can be transferred
without risk to the loss of intellectual property will
be central in these talks.
It remains to be seen how much technology
India’s aeronautical industry can absorb,
especially as the three French contractors may be
obliged to offer offsets equivalent to 50% of the
estimated $10 billion to $15 billion value of the
contract.
Indian defense company Hindustan Aeronautics
Ltd, which is likely to get the work, already has its
work cut out managing cooperation programs
with many other aircraft manufacturers, notably
Russia’s Sukhoi with whom it is developing a
new fighter jet.
Meanwhile, local rules in India forbid foreign
companies from owning more than 26% of a
joint-venture. The Rafale contract, even if it
materializes, could also disappoint for other
reasons further down the runway.
Doing business in India is notoriously difficult for
foreign companies. According to a World Bank
survey, India is second only to East Timor in its
poor record for enforcing contracts.
Then there are the losers. Dassault can expect
considerable interference from its competitors as
they try to derail the French bid. U.K. Prime
Minister David Cameron told Parliament this week
that he will do everything he can to get the Indian
government to change its mind and buy the
Eurofighter Typhoon made by BAE Systems,
European Aeronautic Defense & Space Co and
Italy’s Alenia Aeromacchi, a unit of Finmeccanica.
Whatever the outcome, EADS is a winner of sorts
from the Indian competition. It owns 46.3% of
Dassault Aviation, and it has a 46% stake in the
Eurofighter consortium, acting as the prime
bidder for the Indian contract. Still, this is an
expensive way of winning new business.
 
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Just as an aside, how does the Libyan situation prove anything about a modern plane's capabilities?

Did the Libyans have anything resembling modern technology to counter those planes?

It gives an overview (or demo) if you like to show what can it do in a war-like situation,,, ofcourse this situation will vary at different times, but atleast we wud know the capacity of the aircraft
 
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we want those fighters to give us higher number of squadrons and replace Mig-21(respect). If not better than EFT , at least better than Mig-21(respect) in a cheaper price with new technology.
Rona dhona band karo, now we can retire bis and bisons.
 
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It gives an overview (or demo) if you like to show what can it do in a war-like situation,,, ofcourse this situation will vary at different times, but atleast we wud know the capacity of the aircraft

What capability? That it can fly?

What does the Libyan encounter tell you anything about the aircraft's cutting-edge capabilities? How it would perform against its peers?
 
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Its ironical that Britain and French fought couple of centuries ago to decide who will rule India. Today they are still fighting, only to decide who can grab some business with India...Somethings never change! :) lol!
 
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What capability? That it can fly?

What does the Libyan encounter tell you anything about the aircraft's cutting-edge capabilities? How it would perform against its peers?

Ok !!!Here I come ,tell me please in simple,short and up to the point ,what your problem with the selection of Rafale ???
 
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Ok !!!Here I come ,tell me please in simple,short and up to the point ,what your problem with the selection of Rafale ???

Developoreo's question is valid .

Answer is that Developoreo is right . The Libya operation does not tell how capable Rafale actually is because there was no worthy opposition to it . When the Rafale has to battle Pakistani and Chinese fighters , the situation will be very different .

Hence I believe that the plane was chosen on technical evaluation only done by the IAF and not much on the basis of its performance in Libya .

The whole Libya factor has been exaggerated .
 
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What capability? That it can fly?

What does the Libyan encounter tell you anything about the aircraft's cutting-edge capabilities? How it would perform against its peers?

EFT needed Panavia Tornado to perform SEAD role.

Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Whereas Rafale didn't.

In another words , purchasing Rafales means India doesn't need to bother about replacing MIG -27 , which is primary aircraft in the IAF for SEAD role
 
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Folks kindly stop bickering over the rationality of Rafale decision.
On the brighter side understand that Rafale is an excellent bird. Even if its not the very best (and that's a big pressumption), it will fulfill the IAF requirements of a 4+ gen fighter with numerous technological transfers.

Somehow I feel that the fact that Rafale can carry a nuclear payload has a lot to do. No one's talking about it except from one French Journalist who vaguely answered that "If Mirage can carry one, its logical for Rafale to be able to do so"!
 
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No one's talking about it except from one French Journalist who vaguely answered that "If Mirage can carry one, its logical for Rafale to be able to do so"!

on the contrary everyone is talking about it....it is official that rafale will take over the mantle of the nuclear strike aircraft of iaf from mirage....and once nirbhay enters service it will be joined in that by the mki...

---------- Post added at 02:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:04 PM ----------

Just as an aside, how does the Libyan situation prove anything about a modern plane's capabilities?

Did the Libyans have anything resembling modern technology to counter those planes?

exactly...the libyan air campaign had the eft and the rafale perform two complementary roles...eft for the (non existant) air superiority and rafale for the very real ground strike...

and the rafale passed the test with flying colors...the entire libyan campaign was explained to the iaf and they were impressed with its strike capabilities...

---------- Post added at 02:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:06 PM ----------

Developoreo's question is valid .

Answer is that Developoreo is right . The Libya operation does not tell how capable Rafale actually is because there was no worthy opposition to it . When the Rafale has to battle Pakistani and Chinese fighters , the situation will be very different .

Hence I believe that the plane was chosen on technical evaluation only done by the IAF and not much on the basis of its performance in Libya .

The whole Libya factor has been exaggerated .

no infact it is not exxagerated...

the mission profile of the rafale in libya was ground strike and it performed admirably well against qadaffi's numerous armored colums, fuel and ammo depots etc....
 
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