Economic Power---Military Power---Or Nuc Power

[MastanKhan]

sending 1/5 of your army to fight a war in a unknown land, which you have no familiarity with or have no business being there in the first place is ridiculous. The army is fighting an insurgency within our own borders and you expect them to send 1/5 of there soldiers to fight someone else's war, Your basically saying the pakistan army is a fucking prostitute we should bend over for these saudi's and get fucked in the arse for a few dollars? who cares what happens in our own country the shia community will start rioting and a bigger sectarian fight will start, the indians and iranians will get involved and Pakistan's totally fucked.
do you know how many shia's are in the pakistan army? don't you think some sentiments will be triggered when there fighting against there own bretheren under a Whahabi banner, are we pak-i's such stooges are we such 3rd class people we should prostatute ourselves for somebody elses war.
the indian conventional threat is real, it's going to take more then just 20 billion dollars to adress, it, no country outside china/turkey is willing to comment to our defence needs. US finds it a hassle to supply surplus F-16s you think things would change if we had money, i seriously respect some of your opinions but this time you are wrong.

Hi,

What it is called is ---- AAaiyen---Baaiyen----Shaaiyen

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Hi,

Since pakistan has exploded its nucs---pakistan feels like it has grown an umbrella that can protect it against any aggression--and that maybe far from the truth.

What pakistan's probem has been that every Gilani---Musharraf and Chaudhry has used the term of using the nucs at every opportunity they got if the enemy attacks---. This term has been used without giving any thought to what the consequences maybe----this term has been used without understanding how the enemy and the world is going to take this threat.

Every politician who had a tongue in his mouth has used the use of nucs---every citizen of pakistan that has a mouth and a voice has used this term indiscriminately. S---now that the sound has reverbretted around the world a million times---the world has started to take notice of it.

The first salvo of curtailing the pakistani nucs has been launched by the U S defence secretary just a few days ago. The drama that has been staged is that the U S had asked the indians to be quiet for sometime---act passive and behave in a low key manner---pakistanis---as they are---out of their in grown stupidity will start to brag about this nuc issue and then we will try to nail them---and that is what has happened.

To have nucs is not enough to protect yourself from a country like the U S---again it was out of sheer stupidity of the pak military and its heirarchy for not understanding the consequences----and not teaching and training the [politicians to that regard as well.

They have thought that the nucs have given them a free reign and the threat would stop any incursion or any attempt to steal the nucs----.

What pak militarty generals don't understand is that it has a different effect in the U S----. The U S has mulitplied its force to a higher number to extract all the pakistani nucs in one massive strike---it has recruited more and more operators---has been training harder over the years and diverted many of its milstar staellites to " sniff out the nuc ".

So---basically---if an american says to me that they have the location of all the pak nucs on map by now---I would say that you are right and I agree.

You pakistani kids were living securely in your daddy's mansions---and were looking down at the banyia to nuc them when you wanted---well to you kids---time is getting closer that you would have to give some of them away or they would be snatched away from you.

The bottom line is---uncle sam does not like it when people play tricks on it and pakistanis have been playing many a tricks---even though some maybe paybacks---but still---uncle sam is like a pathan----a pathan who would mother fck everyone---but if someone retorted back---the pathan would want to kill him---uncle sam does not like to be made fun of and don't like to be used.

For that very reason----pakistan should never had pi-ssed off saudi arabia and emirates---at pi-ssed them off at whose expense---iran---a well hated nation by the americans----.

The yemen war should h ave been used to create alliance with the saudis and emiratis---pak should have received the funds for the military and with a more powerful military at hand---that threat would have dissipated----.

But the threat would have dissipated just because pakistan chose to have joined the saudis and emirates----. American public would have seen it a big big positive for the effort that pakistan is putting against the war on terror----and the nuc issue would have fizzled out----.

But no---you clever pakistani kids and your dads---suddenly found a new God---and from where you guys found it---well you find it when you have a few more dollars in your pocket than before---you kids started looking at all the faults in the saudi military and how imcompetent that they were and so much weapons and money that they have and yours is not a mercenary army and this and that and this and that.

With that 20 billion dollars----you would have had a different picture of your military---but then you wanted to join the company of iran---the nation of iran---whomsoever it has puts its hand on---that nation has been a victim of death and destruction----.

Well---my young pakistanis---enjoy your freedom for the time that you have it---. Seems like that you are on that same road where fate has taken Iraq---Libya and Syria----.

The Egyptian military was far more intelligent than yours---they saw the storm clouds coming and kicked out the regime and brought the country back in control.

People keep forgetting one fact, half of our army and focus is on the western front fighting terrorists - making us very vulnerable from the east - tactical missiles are being used to dissuade any Indian incursion which would try to take this advantage; tactical nukes is a temporary option until our Soldiers get on the ride side of the border and lastly, we do not spend much on our nuclear program; it is being funded by Saudi Arabia.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

With all due respect Sir I do not think that you have a clue about a clue of what you are talking about, at best it can be summarized as pedantic drivel.kudos

Hi,

That is agreeable---I thank you very much for your input.

People keep forgetting one fact, half of our army and focus is on the western front fighting terrorists - making us very vulnerable from the east - tactical missiles are being used to dissuade any Indian incursion which would try to take this advantage; tactical nukes is a temporary option until our Soldiers get on the ride side of the border and lastly, we do not spend much on our nuclear program; it is being funded by Saudi Arabia.

Hi,

If you commit to yemen---there will be no incursion from east----. Because you are fighting the war for the world now----. Secondly----you can ask the saudis to place a sqdrn of F15SA'a---from emirates---a sqdrn of BLK60 and 2 sqdrn's of M2K9's in pakistan.

Thirdly----when you have a 100K troops in GC---you would also have control over their air force----you would also have signed agreement our war your war---your war our war.

And to top that off----you have a lots of say on the jobs that some foreigners have in the that region.

So--overall---your easterm border would be most secure----you recruit soldiers on a fastrak----you recall all your recemnt retd Generals--brigs---Cols---Major----srgnt majors etc---so you already have officers and non comms in place---you start with releasing 4 div strength army---and 4 sqdrn strenght of air force officers.

Now why would pakistani shias have any issues with yemen.

Yemen has been sabotaged by the iranians----it is an iranian insurgency and the fools that the yemenis are---they fell for the deceit of the iranians---and now what a price that they are paying for it.

 

[Alpha BeeTee]

India is continually working on anti nukes attack defence system. Onces it operational in future, Pakistan will be at her place.

Tactical nukes will still do.Provided they are used on our own soil to halt Indian advancement ( if it happens ).
And by the time India may be able to operate anti nuke systems,Pakistan will be a different country.
Too many international stakes are with Pakistan,that too of global players,and this will increase in the future,so it will be nearly impossible for India to go for even a conventional adventure.
So at that time,India too,will be at her place.And that will be good for regional peace as both sides will be at their place.

 

[Alpha BeeTee]

Hi,

Since pakistan has exploded its nucs---pakistan feels like it has grown an umbrella that can protect it against any aggression--and that maybe far from the truth.

What pakistan's probem has been that every Gilani---Musharraf and Chaudhry has used the term of using the nucs at every opportunity they got if the enemy attacks---. This term has been used without giving any thought to what the consequences maybe----this term has been used without understanding how the enemy and the world is going to take this threat.

Every politician who had a tongue in his mouth has used the use of nucs---every citizen of pakistan that has a mouth and a voice has used this term indiscriminately. S---now that the sound has reverbretted around the world a million times---the world has started to take notice of it.

The first salvo of curtailing the pakistani nucs has been launched by the U S defence secretary just a few days ago. The drama that has been staged is that the U S had asked the indians to be quiet for sometime---act passive and behave in a low key manner---pakistanis---as they are---out of their in grown stupidity will start to brag about this nuc issue and then we will try to nail them---and that is what has happened.

To have nucs is not enough to protect yourself from a country like the U S---again it was out of sheer stupidity of the pak military and its heirarchy for not understanding the consequences----and not teaching and training the [politicians to that regard as well.

They have thought that the nucs have given them a free reign and the threat would stop any incursion or any attempt to steal the nucs----.

What pak militarty generals don't understand is that it has a different effect in the U S----. The U S has mulitplied its force to a higher number to extract all the pakistani nucs in one massive strike---it has recruited more and more operators---has been training harder over the years and diverted many of its milstar staellites to " sniff out the nuc ".

So---basically---if an american says to me that they have the location of all the pak nucs on map by now---I would say that you are right and I agree.

You pakistani kids were living securely in your daddy's mansions---and were looking down at the banyia to nuc them when you wanted---well to you kids---time is getting closer that you would have to give some of them away or they would be snatched away from you.

The bottom line is---uncle sam does not like it when people play tricks on it and pakistanis have been playing many a tricks---even though some maybe paybacks---but still---uncle sam is like a pathan----a pathan who would mother fck everyone---but if someone retorted back---the pathan would want to kill him---uncle sam does not like to be made fun of and don't like to be used.

For that very reason----pakistan should never had pi-ssed off saudi arabia and emirates---at pi-ssed them off at whose expense---iran---a well hated nation by the americans----.

The yemen war should h ave been used to create alliance with the saudis and emiratis---pak should have received the funds for the military and with a more powerful military at hand---that threat would have dissipated----.

But the threat would have dissipated just because pakistan chose to have joined the saudis and emirates----. American public would have seen it a big big positive for the effort that pakistan is putting against the war on terror----and the nuc issue would have fizzled out----.

But no---you clever pakistani kids and your dads---suddenly found a new God---and from where you guys found it---well you find it when you have a few more dollars in your pocket than before---you kids started looking at all the faults in the saudi military and how imcompetent that they were and so much weapons and money that they have and yours is not a mercenary army and this and that and this and that.

With that 20 billion dollars----you would have had a different picture of your military---but then you wanted to join the company of iran---the nation of iran---whomsoever it has puts its hand on---that nation has been a victim of death and destruction----.

Well---my young pakistanis---enjoy your freedom for the time that you have it---. Seems like that you are on that same road where fate has taken Iraq---Libya and Syria----.

The Egyptian military was far more intelligent than yours---they saw the storm clouds coming and kicked out the regime and brought the country back in control.

I consider you a senior member of this forum but your analysis is disappointing.
You havent focused on a single thing here.
It's just rude criticism missing facts.
Our generals are evil..our nukes have been spotted...we ditched Saudis and embraced Iranis..etc etc.
Considering you a senior member,we expect a more broader and positive perspective from the likes of you.
Regards.

 

[MastanKhan]

I consider you a senior member of this forum but your analysis is disappointing.
You havent focused on a single thing here.
It's just rude criticism missing facts.
Our generals are evil..our nukes have been spotted...we ditched Saudis and embraced Iranis..etc etc.
Considering you a senior member,we expect a more broader and positive perspective from the likes of you.
Regards.

Hi,

I thank you very much for your comments and welcome to the forum.

As I have discussed similar issues in detail many a times----I just bring them up again to refresh and rehash when certain issues pop up---. You may think that I have not focussed---but I have addressed it in a different manner----like---13 years it took to take charge of the problem----now you can put all sorts of things into that 13 years period---and discuss them.

I am not writing this for a thesis----. So---you have to indulge and participate what your take is----.

 

[sonicboom]

Hi,

For that very reason----pakistan should never had pi-ssed off saudi arabia and emirates---at pi-ssed them off at whose expense---iran---a well hated nation by the americans----.

The yemen war should h ave been used to create alliance with the saudis and emiratis---pak should have received the funds for the military and with a more powerful military at hand---that threat would have dissipated----.

But the threat would have dissipated just because pakistan chose to have joined the saudis and emirates----. American public would have seen it a big big positive for the effort that pakistan is putting against the war on terror----and the nuc issue would have fizzled out----.

But no---you clever pakistani kids and your dads---suddenly found a new God---and from where you guys found it---well you find it when you have a few more dollars in your pocket than before---you kids started looking at all the faults in the saudi military and how imcompetent that they were and so much weapons and money that they have and yours is not a mercenary army and this and that and this and that.

With that 20 billion dollars----you would have had a different picture of your military---but then you wanted to join the company of iran---the nation of iran---whomsoever it has puts its hand on---that nation has been a victim of death and destruction----.

Well---my young pakistanis---enjoy your freedom for the time that you have it---. Seems like that you are on that same road where fate has taken Iraq---Libya and Syria----.

The Egyptian military was far more intelligent than yours---they saw the storm clouds coming and kicked out the regime and brought the country back in control.

Very well said. That was one of the dumbest mistakes Pakistan ever committed. Pakistan had a golden opportunity to acquire modern hardware but she blew it. Ego will take you no where. Time is coming when Pakistan will be all alone in the world.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

C'mon Mastan. Lets give your useless and boring banter a rest.

I'm sure U.S military might have a plan to deal with Pakistan and its nukes--just as it might have plans to deal with almost every single nation on Earth.

But to expect that U.S might be attacking Pak to grab our nukes within next ten years is something completely bonkers. U.S has no interest in attacking Pakistan as long as we don't become a rogue state like N.Korea. And we aren't a rogue state of that caliber.

USA has so many problems that I don't believe they're going to start one. They are cold blooded cost benefit analysts. I don't find any point in trying to grab Pak nukes when she is putting her house in order. If the plan fails, and , May Allah forbid, a nuclear mishap occurs who'd take the responsibility. So constant diplomatic pressure will be put, and Pak isn't any amateur in playing with this tune. Estranging Pak is no option either, for "keep your friends close but your enemies closer". Imperial games aren't easy brothers. We'd been there before!!!

 

[wiseone2]

By living in USA for too long you might have gotten the same germs that affected Hussain haqqani.USA is a not GOD if they were they would have done something about IRAN uptill now.They cant attack IRAN let alone Pakistan.
We are young nation and need time to mature, but that dosent mean someone can just come and bomb us with no consequenses.Even if they bomb Pakistan to stone age then we will make sure there will be not a single day in Euope and USA with no response

you would not survive a first strike from America

 

[LeGenD]

Bhai Jan US is on the run from Afghanistan and you think they can sweep in and take out our nukes? For that to happen the US will have to do about 100-150 simultaneous SF operations aguanst highly secure pakistani bases. I don't think they have the capability to pull this off when they will be facing Pakistan army in all of these locations. Also, they would require complete air suppiriority to pull this off, I don't think they can ground the entire PAF in less than 24-48 hours. That will be our cue for counter attack on US basses everywhere in the region and any aircraft carrier in the Arabian Sea. Believe it or not, we have the kind of strength to decimate US bases in the Central Asia and Middle East.


Even if 10% nukes survive, it will be a failed mission. Even if all nukes are destroyed, we have the resources and knowledge to build them again.

And that's when I haven't taken into account the Chinese reposne to such an attack.

Using Afghanistan as an analogue is incredibly naive. Afghanistan does not have strategic areas and expensive assets to loose in a war.

Taliban is an ideological force that [doesn't] needs military bases to operate, expensive logistics to fuel its war-machine, needs to protect strategic areas, uses expensive weapons and its personnel do not wear a uniform. Taliban is an asymmetric ideological threat which cannot be eradicated unless every Afghan is dead and American politicians are not willing to order a genocide in Afghanistan for this purpose.

Persian Gulf War (1991), Operation Praying Mantis and Operation Opera are valid analogues for our situation.

---

US doesn't have shortage of equipment and other forms of resources; its military might is most resourceful and capable in the world. USAF, alone, packs lot of firepower and can conduct hundreds of sorties [simultaneously].

During the [first day] of Operation Enduring Freedom, 100 aircraft and 50 cruise missiles struck different targets in Afghanistan. These type of assets are most useful against targets of high value.

USAF can wipe out PAF in a span of few hours. And US military bases in the Middle East are protected by state-of-the-art ABM systems (that actually work).

Stop living in the fool's paradise. Pakistan doesn't have an answer for every threat in the world.

---

The above being said, total war against a 'regional nuclear power' is not (advisable) unless that nation becomes a threat to the security of the entire world. Even if such a nation is successfully disarmed, their will be bloodshed and fireworks.

As for Pakistan, it should disclose its intentions about what it aims to achieve with its nuclear arm and decide a CAP for its nuclear arsenal. I don't see the benefit of building hundreds of nukes for a country like Pakistan due to its size, economic and geopolitical scenario; such a development would invite more unwanted attention and may also have unforeseen consequences.

 

[Pindi Boy]

you would not survive a first strike from America

i often wonder when will you get rid of this slavery mindset

 

[django]

As for Pakistan, it should disclose its intentions about what it aims to achieve with its nuclear arm and decide a CAP for its nuclear arsenal. I don't see the benefit of building hundreds of nukes for a country like Pakistan due to its size, economic and geopolitical scenario; such a development would invite more unwanted attention and may also have unforeseen consequences.

We should have enough warheads with enough yield to make the whole of India into mad max territory. That is the minimum.

 

[Indika]

We should have enough warheads with enough yield to make the whole of India into mad max territory. That is the minimum.

and then what is there himalaya between india & pakistan to stop the radiation ? One nuke strike in kashmir/punjab is enuf to spill the radiation into neighboring areas.

 

[django]

and then what is there himalaya between india & pakistan to stop the radiation ? One nuke strike in kashmir/punjab is enuf to spill the radiation into neighboring areas.

I am talking about MAD, proper style.

 

[sathya]

USA have said

Pakistan involved in nuclear black market with Iran , Libya and Iran
Osama bin laden had plans with pak military knowledge

These news are coming out after so many years,
Mastan khan is worried about.

He just wants Pakistan to be a responsible professional nuclear power.
Arm your missiles with nuke, let enemy know by itself, and don't brag excessively to the point it back fires.

-------------------------------

It would have much better for Pakistan , instead of miniature nukes
They procured lots of anti tank missiles and long range missiles for deterrence

Mini nukes have attracted world s attension to itself.