Economic Power---Military Power---Or Nuc Power

[Trisonics]

Mastan, good read. Here is why I think the so called tactical missile nassar is useless for Pakistan. India does not ride on false bravado, so if a nassar was fired, India will simply step back and end it's mission while exerting tremendous international pressure on Pak. Any sanctions will only set Pakistan back by another 10 - 15 years, which is far greater pain that also includes answering its own citizens on why it nuked its own land.

Pakistan should know by now how India rules. Pre Mumbai attacks, Pakistan had a far better reputation that it did after 26-11, the diplomatic assault by India has reduced the terror attacks from Pakistan to a great extent. Pakistan will only be left to eat grass if it gets lunatic enough to fire nassar, India will not even need to respond.

 

[war&peace]

India does not ride on false bravado

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

China has a lots at stake over here---but the issue is not china but the behaviour of pakistan---. There is absolutely no reason for every sindhi, punjabi, balochi in pakistani to make a nuc threat all the time.

A conventional increase in armed forces weaponery in the tune of 5---10 billion dollars for the right items will create an automatic deterent---then pakistan can design its own Cold Start doctrine---which basically is more suitable for pakistan than india.

The first issue for you people is to agree that just using empty rhetorical nuc threats are a waste of time---and energy and it does more damage to the image of the country in front of the world----.

What do you people gain out of it! This he simplest and easiest thing to do---but you have to brag---because it is the cultural thing to do---it is in the genes----it is a habit----you cannot do without it----

Because---after you have raised the slogans---you grow an illusion that the problem has gone away and you have conquered he enemy---and as you feel good about it and feel secure---you keep on repeating it over and over again---without understanding the consequences.

 

[war&peace]

Hi,

China has a lots at stake over here---but the issue is not china but the behaviour of pakistan---. There is absolutely no reason for every sindhi, punjabi, balochi in pakistani to make a nuc threat all the time.

A conventional increase in armed forces weaponery in the tune of 5---10 billion dollars for the right items will create an automatic deterent---then pakistan can design its own Cold Start doctrine---which basically is more suitable for pakistan than india.

The first issue for you people is to agree that just using empty rhetorical nuc threats are a waste of time---and energy and it does more damage to the image of the country in front of the world----.

What do you people gain out of it! This he simplest and easiest thing to do---but you have to brag---because it is the cultural thing to do---it is in the genes----it is a habit----you cannot do without it----

Because---after you have raised the slogans---you grow an illusion that the problem has gone away and you have conquered he enemy---and as you feel good about it and feel secure---you keep on repeating it over and over again---without understanding the consequences.

I think the reason is the failure of political govts. Since after Musharraf we have incompetent and vile caterpillars sticking parasitically to the state of Pakistan. For example, right now we have no Foreign Minister and the whole cabinet is busy in robbing the country while rest of Patwaris are intoxicated with little peanuts of corruption or the promises of corruption they get on daily basis like laptop scheme, so such senseless statements are issues through their stubby and loose mouths. But Raheel Sharif for example never used the nuke word himself or any statement of ISPR but that does not mean they will not use it but I totally agree with you that we need to tone down on it actually I would say we should totally stop issuing any statements and follow Turkey. Turkey did not issue any statements before they downed Russian Su-24 and then it was Russia doing the most talking but as of now Turkey 1 - Russia 0. We should rather take pre-emptive approach towards the smallest violation from enemy side instead of vile statements, like the recent crashing of a car by an indian terrorist into wagah gate was a serious offence and should have been taken to international forum but the spineless and incompetent govt became silent on it.

 

[django]

Hi,
I wrote about this issue a couple of months ago on this board somewhere.

Hussein Haqqani is a traitor and a sell out---and your post is not very intelligent---but full of useless bravado. You have been shown a scenario----this scenario I talked about on this board a few months ago---and suddenly---the U S --- out of nowhere has popped up this question.

Iran does not pose any threat to the U S or its allies----. Iran does not have anythig but rhetoric only---pakistan otoh have around 120 nucs----that it has been bragging about using them at every street corner speech that they make.

What you kids cannot comprehend is that U S uses a proportional response to the problem it wants to tackle----and the pakistani nuc problem---it has had enough time to prepare for it---the milstar satelites that it has placed over pakistan for the last 14 years have tagged the location of all the nucs that pak has---so now it is a matter of when---.

If the US intelligence was so good, why were they not able to foresee the Indian tests in 98. As for the US knowing where everyone of our nukes is, well my dear chap to quote Gen Kidwai "even the people (Pak Generals) that think they know where the nukes even they do not know", besides warheads are not mated with the fissile material, and are being moved around all the time. So I highly doubt the US could grab even a single nuke let alone the 100+ warheads we posses, this would not be like the Bin Laden raid, I am pretty certain that the appropriate people have set up extensive defences so that if the US was foolish enough to launch a suicidal mission they would meet an extremely robust and appropriate response.kudos

 

[MastanKhan]

If the US intelligence was so good, why were they not able to foresee the Indian tests in 98. As for the US knowing where everyone of our nukes is, well my dear chap to quote Gen Kidwai "even the people (Pak Generals) that think they know where the nukes even they do not know", besides warheads are not mated with the fissile material, and are being moved around all the time. So I highly doubt the US could grab even a single nuke let alone the 100+ warheads we posses, this would not be like the Bin Laden raid, I am pretty certain that the appropriate people have set up extensive defences so that if the US was foolish enough to launch a suicidal mission they would meet an extremely robust and appropriate response.kudos

Hi,

98---there was no interest in the region---. Since 2001----there are about 2-4 milstar ( military star satellites ) satellites hovering over pakistan permanently now.

You are a brilliant poster and strategist----we don't need anyone else but the likes of you to ruin pakistan further----.

Just look at you postr---you are talking about a 18 years old analysis---.

The salala checkpost incidence made the pak army feel the hot breath of the dragon.

 

[django]

The salala checkpost incidence made the pak army feel the hot breath of the dragon.

And when we decided to cut off their supply line they had to backtrack and apologise, You see Mastan bhai the door swings both ways, we also have our own cards, As for the US satellites ohhhh are you talking about the ones that our Iranian neighbours blinded with a laser. My dear chap their technology is not infallible.kudos

 

[Jacob Martin]

Hi,

Since pakistan has exploded its nucs---pakistan feels like it has grown an umbrella that can protect it against any aggression--and that maybe far from the truth.

What pakistan's probem has been that every Gilani---Musharraf and Chaudhry has used the term of using the nucs at every opportunity they got if the enemy attacks---. This term has been used without giving any thought to what the consequences maybe----this term has been used without understanding how the enemy and the world is going to take this threat.

Every politician who had a tongue in his mouth has used the use of nucs---every citizen of pakistan that has a mouth and a voice has used this term indiscriminately. S---now that the sound has reverbretted around the world a million times---the world has started to take notice of it.

The first salvo of curtailing the pakistani nucs has been launched by the U S defence secretary just a few days ago. The drama that has been staged is that the U S had asked the indians to be quiet for sometime---act passive and behave in a low key manner---pakistanis---as they are---out of their in grown stupidity will start to brag about this nuc issue and then we will try to nail them---and that is what has happened.

To have nucs is not enough to protect yourself from a country like the U S---again it was out of sheer stupidity of the pak military and its heirarchy for not understanding the consequences----and not teaching and training the [politicians to that regard as well.

They have thought that the nucs have given them a free reign and the threat would stop any incursion or any attempt to steal the nucs----.

What pak militarty generals don't understand is that it has a different effect in the U S----. The U S has mulitplied its force to a higher number to extract all the pakistani nucs in one massive strike---it has recruited more and more operators---has been training harder over the years and diverted many of its milstar staellites to " sniff out the nuc ".

So---basically---if an american says to me that they have the location of all the pak nucs on map by now---I would say that you are right and I agree.

You pakistani kids were living securely in your daddy's mansions---and were looking down at the banyia to nuc them when you wanted---well to you kids---time is getting closer that you would have to give some of them away or they would be snatched away from you.

The bottom line is---uncle sam does not like it when people play tricks on it and pakistanis have been playing many a tricks---even though some maybe paybacks---but still---uncle sam is like a pathan----a pathan who would mother fck everyone---but if someone retorted back---the pathan would want to kill him---uncle sam does not like to be made fun of and don't like to be used.

For that very reason----pakistan should never had pi-ssed off saudi arabia and emirates---at pi-ssed them off at whose expense---iran---a well hated nation by the americans----.

The yemen war should h ave been used to create alliance with the saudis and emiratis---pak should have received the funds for the military and with a more powerful military at hand---that threat would have dissipated----.

But the threat would have dissipated just because pakistan chose to have joined the saudis and emirates----. American public would have seen it a big big positive for the effort that pakistan is putting against the war on terror----and the nuc issue would have fizzled out----.

But no---you clever pakistani kids and your dads---suddenly found a new God---and from where you guys found it---well you find it when you have a few more dollars in your pocket than before---you kids started looking at all the faults in the saudi military and how imcompetent that they were and so much weapons and money that they have and yours is not a mercenary army and this and that and this and that.

With that 20 billion dollars----you would have had a different picture of your military---but then you wanted to join the company of iran---the nation of iran---whomsoever it has puts its hand on---that nation has been a victim of death and destruction----.

Well---my young pakistanis---enjoy your freedom for the time that you have it---. Seems like that you are on that same road where fate has taken Iraq---Libya and Syria----.

The Egyptian military was far more intelligent than yours---they saw the storm clouds coming and kicked out the regime and brought the country back in control.

Are you trying to drive good sense into belligerent, nuclear-blackmailing Pakistanis or trying to enlist support for yet another Saazish against the world at large? If it is the former, then I am afraid that PDF is the WRONG FORUM for your message. If it is the latter then I am all ears....

 

[thrilainmanila]

Hi,

Since pakistan has exploded its nucs---pakistan feels like it has grown an umbrella that can protect it against any aggression--and that maybe far from the truth.

What pakistan's probem has been that every Gilani---Musharraf and Chaudhry has used the term of using the nucs at every opportunity they got if the enemy attacks---. This term has been used without giving any thought to what the consequences maybe----this term has been used without understanding how the enemy and the world is going to take this threat.

Every politician who had a tongue in his mouth has used the use of nucs---every citizen of pakistan that has a mouth and a voice has used this term indiscriminately. S---now that the sound has reverbretted around the world a million times---the world has started to take notice of it.

The first salvo of curtailing the pakistani nucs has been launched by the U S defence secretary just a few days ago. The drama that has been staged is that the U S had asked the indians to be quiet for sometime---act passive and behave in a low key manner---pakistanis---as they are---out of their in grown stupidity will start to brag about this nuc issue and then we will try to nail them---and that is what has happened.

To have nucs is not enough to protect yourself from a country like the U S---again it was out of sheer stupidity of the pak military and its heirarchy for not understanding the consequences----and not teaching and training the [politicians to that regard as well.

They have thought that the nucs have given them a free reign and the threat would stop any incursion or any attempt to steal the nucs----.

What pak militarty generals don't understand is that it has a different effect in the U S----. The U S has mulitplied its force to a higher number to extract all the pakistani nucs in one massive strike---it has recruited more and more operators---has been training harder over the years and diverted many of its milstar staellites to " sniff out the nuc ".

So---basically---if an american says to me that they have the location of all the pak nucs on map by now---I would say that you are right and I agree.

You pakistani kids were living securely in your daddy's mansions---and were looking down at the banyia to nuc them when you wanted---well to you kids---time is getting closer that you would have to give some of them away or they would be snatched away from you.

The bottom line is---uncle sam does not like it when people play tricks on it and pakistanis have been playing many a tricks---even though some maybe paybacks---but still---uncle sam is like a pathan----a pathan who would mother fck everyone---but if someone retorted back---the pathan would want to kill him---uncle sam does not like to be made fun of and don't like to be used.

For that very reason----pakistan should never had pi-ssed off saudi arabia and emirates---at pi-ssed them off at whose expense---iran---a well hated nation by the americans----.

The yemen war should h ave been used to create alliance with the saudis and emiratis---pak should have received the funds for the military and with a more powerful military at hand---that threat would have dissipated----.

But the threat would have dissipated just because pakistan chose to have joined the saudis and emirates----. American public would have seen it a big big positive for the effort that pakistan is putting against the war on terror----and the nuc issue would have fizzled out----.

But no---you clever pakistani kids and your dads---suddenly found a new God---and from where you guys found it---well you find it when you have a few more dollars in your pocket than before---you kids started looking at all the faults in the saudi military and how imcompetent that they were and so much weapons and money that they have and yours is not a mercenary army and this and that and this and that.

With that 20 billion dollars----you would have had a different picture of your military---but then you wanted to join the company of iran---the nation of iran---whomsoever it has puts its hand on---that nation has been a victim of death and destruction----.

Well---my young pakistanis---enjoy your freedom for the time that you have it---. Seems like that you are on that same road where fate has taken Iraq---Libya and Syria----.

The Egyptian military was far more intelligent than yours---they saw the storm clouds coming and kicked out the regime and brought the country back in control.

You are an old fool aren't you. any kind of involvement in there war, would have made the sectarian violence in pakistan a hell of allot of worse, and whatever small improvements have been made would have become undone. who cares about having conventional military strength when religeous violence would have been at an all time high. 20 billion dollars would have still not made the difference viza vi the US/india. its idiotic of you to suggest we can match either of these bastards. nukes are the only solution.

Hi,

China has a lots at stake over here---but the issue is not china but the behaviour of pakistan---. There is absolutely no reason for every sindhi, punjabi, balochi in pakistani to make a nuc threat all the time.

A conventional increase in armed forces weaponery in the tune of 5---10 billion dollars for the right items will create an automatic deterent---then pakistan can design its own Cold Start doctrine---which basically is more suitable for pakistan than india.

The first issue for you people is to agree that just using empty rhetorical nuc threats are a waste of time---and energy and it does more damage to the image of the country in front of the world----.

What do you people gain out of it! This he simplest and easiest thing to do---but you have to brag---because it is the cultural thing to do---it is in the genes----it is a habit----you cannot do without it----

Because---after you have raised the slogans---you grow an illusion that the problem has gone away and you have conquered he enemy---and as you feel good about it and feel secure---you keep on repeating it over and over again---without understanding the consequences.

who the **** is going to give the pak military 5-10 billion? you? are you in your right senses? 5-10 billion won't do anything. a fucking NATO army would lose a conventional fight against India. spending and developing a conventional hand means nothing, you're right about the military leaders bragging about nukes and empty threats, but there is no fucking way pakistan can match india conventionally, it will never happen.

 

[thrilainmanila]

Bhai Jan US is on the run from Afghanistan and you think they can sweep in and take out our nukes? For that to happen the US will have to do about 100-150 simultaneous SF operations aguanst highly secure pakistani bases. I don't think they have the capability to pull this off when they will be facing Pakistan army in all of these locations. Also, they would require complete air suppiriority to pull this off, I don't think they can ground the entire PAF in less than 24-48 hours. That will be our cue for counter attack on US basses everywhere in the region and any aircraft carrier in the Arabian Sea. Believe it or not, we have the kind of strength to decimate US bases in the Central Asia and Middle East.


Even if 10% nukes survive, it will be a failed mission. Even if all nukes are destroyed, we have the resources and knowledge to build them again.

And that's when I haven't taken into account the Chinese reposne to such an attack.

According to this guy, China will just sit there and watch there 50 billion dollar investment and access/trade route to africa and europe go up in flames?

 

[911]

US invading Pakistan will provoke China to invade nearby small countries.

 

[MastanKhan]

You are an old fool aren't you. any kind of involvement in there war, would have made the sectarian violence in pakistan a hell of allot of worse, and whatever small improvements have been made would have become undone. who cares about having conventional military strength when religeous violence would have been at an all time high. 20 billion dollars would have still not made the difference viza vi the US/india. its idiotic of you to suggest we can match either of these bastards. nukes are the only solution.


who the **** is going to give the pak military 5-10 billion? you? are you in your right senses? 5-10 billion won't do anything. a fucking NATO army would lose a conventional fight against India. spending and developing a conventional hand means nothing, you're right about the military leaders bragging about nukes and empty threats, but there is no fucking way pakistan can match india conventionally, it will never happen.

Hi,

Please just check your tone of voice----hehn.

That would be Saudi arabia---emirate---Qatar---Bahrain---Oman---

For a fully equipped 100 k troops---that 20 billion was for the first years expense---just to load up on major weapons and goodies---and in the viccinity of 5 billion dollars a year later.

We are not a nato army----we have our own Cold Start planned----. If india had a way to knock us off---they had their chances in 2002 and 2008----.

You are in too much awe of indian army----we are not.

You have been on this forum for what 8 years now---is there any one pakistani over here that is in awe of the india military.

According to this guy, China will just sit there and watch there 50 billion dollar investment and access/trade route to africa and europe go up in flames?

@Irfan Baloch @ebmaster an 8 years member---please request to enforce the flag rule---thank you.
Plz---put on your flag---so i know who you are---

Are you trying to drive good sense into belligerent, nuclear-blackmailing Pakistanis or trying to enlist support for yet another Saazish against the world at large? If it is the former, then I am afraid that PDF is the WRONG FORUM for your message. If it is the latter then I am all ears....

Hi,

Pakistanis are not doing a nuc blackmail---they are just being real. A little too real at times----.

 

[thrilainmanila]

Hi,

For a fully equipped 100 k troops---that 20 billion was for the first years expense---just to load up on major weapons and goodies---and in the viccinity of 5 billion dollars a year later.

We are not a nato army----we have our own Cold Start planned----. If india had a way to knock us off---they had their chances in 2002 and 2008----.

You are in too much awe of indian army----we are not.

You have been on this forum for what 8 years now---is there any one pakistani over here that is in awe of the india military.

sending 1/5 of your army to fight a war in a unknown land, which you have no familiarity with or have no business being there in the first place is ridiculous. The army is fighting an insurgency within our own borders and you expect them to send 1/5 of there soldiers to fight someone else's war, Your basically saying the pakistan army is a fucking prostitute we should bend over for these saudi's and get fucked in the arse for a few dollars? who cares what happens in our own country the shia community will start rioting and a bigger sectarian fight will start, the indians and iranians will get involved and Pakistan's totally fucked.
do you know how many shia's are in the pakistan army? don't you think some sentiments will be triggered when there fighting against there own bretheren under a Whahabi banner, are we pak-i's such stooges are we such 3rd class people we should prostatute ourselves for somebody elses war.
the indian conventional threat is real, it's going to take more then just 20 billion dollars to adress, it, no country outside china/turkey is willing to comment to our defence needs. US finds it a hassle to supply surplus F-16s you think things would change if we had money, i seriously respect some of your opinions but this time you are wrong.

 

[MastanKhan]

And when we decided to cut off their supply line they had to backtrack and apologise, You see Mastan bhai the door swings both ways, we also have our own cards, As for the US satellites ohhhh are you talking about the ones that our Iranian neighbours blinded with a laser. My dear chap their technology is not infallible.kudos

Hi,

You can only be happy with the information that you have---and I am concerned because you have no clue of what I am talking about.

For a pi-s poor third world country pakistan---the door only swings one way--and that is the american way.

See---when death comes singing the star spangled banner---the victim does not even know when it ceased to exist.

The part about the blinding that you may know----but what other functions it had---you will not understand just like that.

Mastan, good read. Here is why I think the so called tactical missile nassar is useless for Pakistan. India does not ride on false bravado, so if a nassar was fired, India will simply step back and end it's mission while exerting tremendous international pressure on Pak. Any sanctions will only set Pakistan back by another 10 - 15 years, which is far greater pain that also includes answering its own citizens on why it nuked its own land.

Pakistan should know by now how India rules. Pre Mumbai attacks, Pakistan had a far better reputation that it did after 26-11, the diplomatic assault by India has reduced the terror attacks from Pakistan to a great extent. Pakistan will only be left to eat grass if it gets lunatic enough to fire nassar, India will not even need to respond.

Once it started---it won't end by india stepping back----.

 

[django]

Hi,

You can only be happy with the information that you have---and I am concerned because you have no clue of what I am talking about.

For a pi-s poor third world country pakistan---the door only swings one way--and that is the american way.

See---when death comes singing the star spangled banner---the victim does not even know when it ceased to exist.

The part about the blinding that you may know----but what other functions it had---you will not understand just like that.



Once it started---it won't end by india stepping back----.

Hi,

With all due respect Sir I do not think that you have a clue about a clue of what you are talking about, at best it can be summarized as pedantic drivel.kudos