Economic Power---Military Power---Or Nuc Power

[Srinivas]

Even though the Pakistani politician statements regarding Nukes can be ignored some times, the serious threat is fundamental radicals in Pakistan who will not hesitate to use nukes, if they get hands on them.

Hi,

Since pakistan has exploded its nucs---pakistan feels like it has grown an umbrella that can protect it against any aggression--and that maybe far from the truth.

What pakistan's probem has been that every Gilani---Musharraf and Chaudhry has used the term of using the nucs at every opportunity they got if the enemy attacks---. This term has been used without giving any thought to what the consequences maybe----this term has been used without understanding how the enemy and the world is going to take this threat.

Every politician who had a tongue in his mouth has used the use of nucs---every citizen of pakistan that has a mouth and a voice has used this term indiscriminately. S---now that the sound has reverbretted around the world a million times---the world has started to take notice of it.

The first salvo of curtailing the pakistani nucs has been launched by the U S defence secretary just a few days ago. The drama that has been staged is that the U S had asked the indians to be quiet for sometime---act passive and behave in a low key manner---pakistanis---as they are---out of their in grown stupidity will start to brag about this nuc issue and then we will try to nail them---and that is what has happened.

To have nucs is not enough to protect yourself from a country like the U S---again it was out of sheer stupidity of the pak military and its heirarchy for not understanding the consequences----and not teaching and training the [politicians to that regard as well.

They have thought that the nucs have given them a free reign and the threat would stop any incursion or any attempt to steal the nucs----.

What pak militarty generals don't understand is that it has a different effect in the U S----. The U S has mulitplied its force to a higher number to extract all the pakistani nucs in one massive strike---it has recruited more and more operators---has been training harder over the years and diverted many of its milstar staellites to " sniff out the nuc ".

So---basically---if an american says to me that they have the location of all the pak nucs on map by now---I would say that you are right and I agree.

You pakistani kids were living securely in your daddy's mansions---and were looking down at the banyia to nuc them when you wanted---well to you kids---time is getting closer that you would have to give some of them away or they would be snatched away from you.

The bottom line is---uncle sam does not like it when people play tricks on it and pakistanis have been playing many a tricks---even though some maybe paybacks---but still---uncle sam is like a pathan----a pathan who would mother fck everyone---but if someone retorted back---the pathan would want to kill him---uncle sam does not like to be made fun of and don't like to be used.

For that very reason----pakistan should never had pi-ssed off saudi arabia and emirates---at pi-ssed them off at whose expense---iran---a well hated nation by the americans----.

The yemen war should h ave been used to create alliance with the saudis and emiratis---pak should have received the funds for the military and with a more powerful military at hand---that threat would have dissipated----.

But the threat would have dissipated just because pakistan chose to have joined the saudis and emirates----. American public would have seen it a big big positive for the effort that pakistan is putting against the war on terror----and the nuc issue would have fizzled out----.

But no---you clever pakistani kids and your dads---suddenly found a new God---and from where you guys found it---well you find it when you have a few more dollars in your pocket than before---you kids started looking at all the faults in the saudi military and how imcompetent that they were and so much weapons and money that they have and yours is not a mercenary army and this and that and this and that.

With that 20 billion dollars----you would have had a different picture of your military---but then you wanted to join the company of iran---the nation of iran---whomsoever it has puts its hand on---that nation has been a victim of death and destruction----.

Well---my young pakistanis---enjoy your freedom for the time that you have it---. Seems like that you are on that same road where fate has taken Iraq---Libya and Syria----.

The Egyptian military was far more intelligent than yours---they saw the storm clouds coming and kicked out the regime and brought the country back in control.

 

[CHD]

Even though the Pakistani politician statements regarding Nukes can be ignored some times, the serious threat is fundamental radicals in Pakistan who will not hesitate to use nukes, if they get hands on them.

its not like we are gonna make Hafiz saeed or mualana burka aziz our general or PM unlike India who made Modi thier PM , so their is nothing to worry about

 

[Kal Muah]

its not like we are gonna make Hafiz saeed or mualana burka aziz our general or PM unlike India who made Modi thier PM , so their is nothing to worry about

Sir, Hafiz Saaed is an international terrorist, declared by UN.

Lashkar-e-Taiba -- ADL Terrorist Symbol Database

Modi never went to pakistan to kill Pakistanis, but Hafiz did. You are mistaking Riots with Terrorism, in that sense OBAMA is terrorist too because of black killing, baltimore riots and Nawaz Sharif because of hindu killings.
The more people like you from pakistan talks likes this, the more people starts stereotyping you people as stupid and illogical.

 

[Pulsar]

Hi,

Since pakistan has exploded its nucs---pakistan feels like it has grown an umbrella that can protect it against any aggression--and that maybe far from the truth.

What pakistan's probem has been that every Gilani---Musharraf and Chaudhry has used the term of using the nucs at every opportunity they got if the enemy attacks---. This term has been used without giving any thought to what the consequences maybe----this term has been used without understanding how the enemy and the world is going to take this threat.

Every politician who had a tongue in his mouth has used the use of nucs---every citizen of pakistan that has a mouth and a voice has used this term indiscriminately. S---now that the sound has reverbretted around the world a million times---the world has started to take notice of it.

The first salvo of curtailing the pakistani nucs has been launched by the U S defence secretary just a few days ago. The drama that has been staged is that the U S had asked the indians to be quiet for sometime---act passive and behave in a low key manner---pakistanis---as they are---out of their in grown stupidity will start to brag about this nuc issue and then we will try to nail them---and that is what has happened.

To have nucs is not enough to protect yourself from a country like the U S---again it was out of sheer stupidity of the pak military and its heirarchy for not understanding the consequences----and not teaching and training the [politicians to that regard as well.

They have thought that the nucs have given them a free reign and the threat would stop any incursion or any attempt to steal the nucs----.

What pak militarty generals don't understand is that it has a different effect in the U S----. The U S has mulitplied its force to a higher number to extract all the pakistani nucs in one massive strike---it has recruited more and more operators---has been training harder over the years and diverted many of its milstar staellites to " sniff out the nuc ".

So---basically---if an american says to me that they have the location of all the pak nucs on map by now---I would say that you are right and I agree.

You pakistani kids were living securely in your daddy's mansions---and were looking down at the banyia to nuc them when you wanted---well to you kids---time is getting closer that you would have to give some of them away or they would be snatched away from you.

The bottom line is---uncle sam does not like it when people play tricks on it and pakistanis have been playing many a tricks---even though some maybe paybacks---but still---uncle sam is like a pathan----a pathan who would mother fck everyone---but if someone retorted back---the pathan would want to kill him---uncle sam does not like to be made fun of and don't like to be used.

For that very reason----pakistan should never had pi-ssed off saudi arabia and emirates---at pi-ssed them off at whose expense---iran---a well hated nation by the americans----.

The yemen war should h ave been used to create alliance with the saudis and emiratis---pak should have received the funds for the military and with a more powerful military at hand---that threat would have dissipated----.

But the threat would have dissipated just because pakistan chose to have joined the saudis and emirates----. American public would have seen it a big big positive for the effort that pakistan is putting against the war on terror----and the nuc issue would have fizzled out----.

But no---you clever pakistani kids and your dads---suddenly found a new God---and from where you guys found it---well you find it when you have a few more dollars in your pocket than before---you kids started looking at all the faults in the saudi military and how imcompetent that they were and so much weapons and money that they have and yours is not a mercenary army and this and that and this and that.

With that 20 billion dollars----you would have had a different picture of your military---but then you wanted to join the company of iran---the nation of iran---whomsoever it has puts its hand on---that nation has been a victim of death and destruction----.

Well---my young pakistanis---enjoy your freedom for the time that you have it---. Seems like that you are on that same road where fate has taken Iraq---Libya and Syria----.

The Egyptian military was far more intelligent than yours---they saw the storm clouds coming and kicked out the regime and brought the country back in control.

Wow! You're gonna get yourself nuked for this!!

 

[Neutron]

The United States was the first country to develop nuclear weapons, and is the only country to have used them in warfare, with the separate bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in World War II. Before and during the Cold War, it conducted over a thousand nuclear tests and developed many long-range weapon delivery systems.

Do they possess enough moral grounds to lecture the world?

Pakistan Government is sensible enough. If we can create something we can defend it as well.
Second strike capability of Pakistan is not a joke.
We know when, where , why and how to use it.
And why not.

...............

 

[Chika_Pika]

Hi,

Since pakistan has exploded its nucs---pakistan feels like it has grown an umbrella that can protect it against any aggression--and that maybe far from the truth.

What pakistan's probem has been that every Gilani---Musharraf and Chaudhry has used the term of using the nucs at every opportunity they got if the enemy attacks---. This term has been used without giving any thought to what the consequences maybe----this term has been used without understanding how the enemy and the world is going to take this threat.

Every politician who had a tongue in his mouth has used the use of nucs---every citizen of pakistan that has a mouth and a voice has used this term indiscriminately. S---now that the sound has reverbretted around the world a million times---the world has started to take notice of it.

The first salvo of curtailing the pakistani nucs has been launched by the U S defence secretary just a few days ago. The drama that has been staged is that the U S had asked the indians to be quiet for sometime---act passive and behave in a low key manner---pakistanis---as they are---out of their in grown stupidity will start to brag about this nuc issue and then we will try to nail them---and that is what has happened.

To have nucs is not enough to protect yourself from a country like the U S---again it was out of sheer stupidity of the pak military and its heirarchy for not understanding the consequences----and not teaching and training the [politicians to that regard as well.

They have thought that the nucs have given them a free reign and the threat would stop any incursion or any attempt to steal the nucs----.

What pak militarty generals don't understand is that it has a different effect in the U S----. The U S has mulitplied its force to a higher number to extract all the pakistani nucs in one massive strike---it has recruited more and more operators---has been training harder over the years and diverted many of its milstar staellites to " sniff out the nuc ".

So---basically---if an american says to me that they have the location of all the pak nucs on map by now---I would say that you are right and I agree.

You pakistani kids were living securely in your daddy's mansions---and were looking down at the banyia to nuc them when you wanted---well to you kids---time is getting closer that you would have to give some of them away or they would be snatched away from you.

The bottom line is---uncle sam does not like it when people play tricks on it and pakistanis have been playing many a tricks---even though some maybe paybacks---but still---uncle sam is like a pathan----a pathan who would mother fck everyone---but if someone retorted back---the pathan would want to kill him---uncle sam does not like to be made fun of and don't like to be used.

For that very reason----pakistan should never had pi-ssed off saudi arabia and emirates---at pi-ssed them off at whose expense---iran---a well hated nation by the americans----.

The yemen war should h ave been used to create alliance with the saudis and emiratis---pak should have received the funds for the military and with a more powerful military at hand---that threat would have dissipated----.

But the threat would have dissipated just because pakistan chose to have joined the saudis and emirates----. American public would have seen it a big big positive for the effort that pakistan is putting against the war on terror----and the nuc issue would have fizzled out----.

But no---you clever pakistani kids and your dads---suddenly found a new God---and from where you guys found it---well you find it when you have a few more dollars in your pocket than before---you kids started looking at all the faults in the saudi military and how imcompetent that they were and so much weapons and money that they have and yours is not a mercenary army and this and that and this and that.

With that 20 billion dollars----you would have had a different picture of your military---but then you wanted to join the company of iran---the nation of iran---whomsoever it has puts its hand on---that nation has been a victim of death and destruction----.

Well---my young pakistanis---enjoy your freedom for the time that you have it---. Seems like that you are on that same road where fate has taken Iraq---Libya and Syria----.

The Egyptian military was far more intelligent than yours---they saw the storm clouds coming and kicked out the regime and brought the country back in control.

This fella is going all mad

 

[Abdullah S.]

Bhai Jan US is on the run from Afghanistan and you think they can sweep in and take out our nukes? For that to happen the US will have to do about 100-150 simultaneous SF operations aguanst highly secure pakistani bases. I don't think they have the capability to pull this off when they will be facing Pakistan army in all of these locations. Also, they would require complete air suppiriority to pull this off, I don't think they can ground the entire PAF in less than 24-48 hours. That will be our cue for counter attack on US basses everywhere in the region and any aircraft carrier in the Arabian Sea. Believe it or not, we have the kind of strength to decimate US bases in the Central Asia and Middle East.


Even if 10% nukes survive, it will be a failed mission. Even if all nukes are destroyed, we have the resources and knowledge to build them again.

And that's when I haven't taken into account the Chinese reposne to such an attack.

 

[Ghazwa e Hind]

We have already ample military and nuclear power (but we should always strive for better). Now lets focus on economic power because we are far behind in this field.

Pakistani governments not focusing on betterment of overall economy. We need partial industrialization and partial agriculturalization.

 

[war&peace]

Normally i agree with you but on this i disagree with due respect. I think you have got too much into the pdf that if someone asks you what does pdf stand for? and your answer will be (Pak Defense Forum) while for the rest of the world like 99.99999% the pdf still means portable document format. This preamble is to make my point that you are taking the war on pdf as something real. USA would surely has done each and everything that it can do in its power but believe me it is not that easy and quite a large number of their assets are in Pakistan's declared range and undeclared range may surprise many old timers and surely Israel is not that far and in Pakistan's range, and it will not go unpunished and they are well aware of that despite all the defences, Pakistan needs only one or two H-bombs to get through. USA may be able to take out a few soldiers but still cannot beat physics. They have not been able to wipe out Taliban over 10 years or more of their occupation of Afghanistan

 

[xyxmt]

Iran does not pose any threat to the U S or its allies----. Iran does not have anythig but rhetoric only---pakistan otoh have around 120 nucs----that it has been bragging about using them at every street corner speech that they make.

What you kids cannot comprehend is that U S uses a proportional response to the problem it wants to tackle----and the pakistani nuc problem---it has had enough time to prepare for it---the milstar satelites that it has placed over pakistan for the last 14 years have tagged the location of all the nucs that pak has---so now it is a matter of when---.

ones should get this fact in their minds, If a country has nukes; brag or not; it is for a particular use when time comes.
If you country India is not bragging about its use and has no intention of using it then they should get rid of it, so does US, Russian and China. If you have a car people expect you will drive it when you need to travel, you can say oh my Car is only make my driveway look nicer but no one will believe it.

 

[Sharpshooter12]

To have nucs is not enough to protect yourself from a country like the U S---again it was out of sheer stupidity of the pak military and its heirarchy for not understanding the consequences----and not teaching and training the [politicians to that regard as well.

They have thought that the nucs have given them a free reign and the threat would stop any incursion or any attempt to steal the nucs----.

What pak militarty generals don't understand is that it has a different effect in the U S----. The U S has mulitplied its force to a higher number to extract all the pakistani nucs in one massive strike---it has recruited more and more operators---has been training harder over the years and diverted many of its milstar staellites to " sniff out the nuc ".

So---basically---if an american says to me that they have the location of all the pak nucs on map by now---I would say that you are right and I agree.

You pakistani kids were living securely in your daddy's mansions---and were looking down at the banyia to nuc them when you wanted---well to you kids---time is getting closer that you would have to give some of them away or they would be snatched away from you.

First of all I have to agree that there is no need of every tom dick and harry bragging about Pakistani nuclear muscle. That does not paint the right kind of picture in the world.

But did not we created this nuclear muscle right under the noses of these Americans during the 80's. All right they needed us at that time for Soviets but what was stopping them from snatching or destroying our nuclear capability in the 90's when our relations were at an all time low. Even in the early 2000 they could have used the 9/11 to take us or our nuclear arsenal out. During all these years our nuclear capability had not matured, it was still in the development phase.

Now even if they try, it won't be that easy.

But no---you clever pakistani kids and your dads---suddenly found a new God---and from where you guys found it---well you find it when you have a few more dollars in your pocket than before---you kids started looking at all the faults in the saudi military and how imcompetent that they were and so much weapons and money that they have and yours is not a mercenary army and this and that and this and that.

For that very reason----pakistan should never had pi-ssed off saudi arabia and emirates---at pi-ssed them off at whose expense---iran---a well hated nation by the americans----.

The yemen war should h ave been used to create alliance with the saudis and emiratis---pak should have received the funds for the military and with a more powerful military at hand---that threat would have dissipated----.

I am an advocate of using Saudi-Iran conflict to our interest. Even during the first Gulf War, We could have easily went in and with the help of GCC countries stopped Saddam in his tracks. Kuwait and KSA both would have bankrolled such a campaign (each paid 10 Billion USD to the Americans). And that would have kept the US out of the region, meaning Osama would not have had a justification for creating Al-Qaida (the biggest justification was presence of US forces in Arabian Peninsula). We could have just pushed Iraq out of Kuwait and then a ceasefire that would have kept Iraq as the boogeyman of the region, providing us justification for keeping our troops in the area, that would have been paid by the GCC. These troops would have had the best possible weaponry bought by our Arab friends, and presence of this expeditionary force that could be called back home in case of emergency would have kept India in check as well.

The talk about Pakistani army becoming mercenary by acting this way is absurd, army is there to protect and further the national interest of Pakistan. And if Pakistani interest are furthered by going in and fighting in Timbuktu, well so be it.

But caution is needed. This time around, its not a Sunni vs Sunni conflict like Gulf war 1. We have a significant Shia population, which is actually the largest Shia population outside Iran. By joining the Arab coalition which has a clear sectarian color to it, we might be upsetting a large minority through which Iran can create a lot of troubles for us. And that at a moment, when we are trying to implement CPEC which can actually change the fortunes of the country, is not something that we desire.

 

[rockstar08]

Mastan why so many troll baits for Indian troll these days ?
did you lose your job old man ?

 

[Vapnope]

The thing is that if US wants to take out our nuke he will do it, it doesn't matter if we join KSA alliance or we don't. We know we are not the blue eyed boy for US.

 

[VCheng]

The United States was the first country to develop nuclear weapons, and is the only country to have used them in warfare, with the separate bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in World War II. Before and during the Cold War, it conducted over a thousand nuclear tests and developed many long-range weapon delivery systems.

Do they possess enough moral grounds to lecture the world?

Pakistan Government is sensible enough. If we can create something we can defend it as well.
Second strike capability of Pakistan is not a joke.
We know when, where , why and how to use it.
And why not.

...............

There is no need to get upset at the OP. The point he is trying to make is very simple. Since no nuclear-armed nation can be taken on, or defeated, in a direct military conflict, warfare in the post-nuclear era is usually economic. Does Pakistan have what it takes to succeed in such an environment is the very real question.

 

[MastanKhan]

First of all I have to agree that there is no need of every tom dick and harry bragging about Pakistani nuclear muscle. That does not paint the right kind of picture in the world.

But did not we created this nuclear muscle right under the noses of these Americans during the 80's. All right they needed us at that time for Soviets but what was stopping them from snatching or destroying our nuclear capability in the 90's when our relations were at an all time low. Even in the early 2000 they could have used the 9/11 to take us or our nuclear arsenal out. During all these years our nuclear capability had not matured, it was still in the development phase.
.

Hi,

I have stated it many a times over here that our program had the blessing of the americans---many of our pioneer scientists were educated and trained in the US.

As for pakistani shia's----it is the states responsibility to give them protection and security---. Any anti shia elements need to be wiped out----.

All ethnic groups have as much right over pakistan as the majority group----and the rights of the minority can never be rejected or sacrificed to make SOME in the majority happy---.

This world is not a neutral world anymore----. Nations have already picked their sides----you cannot have your cake and eat it too.

Pakistan needs to decide if it is in the corner of iran or on the side of gulf states. The priviledges given to iran cannot be taken back by the U S if issues start surfacing---and it is not good to be known as an ally of iran---.

Iran is not a good ally to itself----it is own worst enemy so how can it be good to other countries----.

Pakistan must stay away from this tricky and clever game and do the simple stupid----. Stick with the old reliable---the arabs---ie the gulf states.

What saddens me from almost all the responses of the pakistanis is---that none of you want to take charge and accept that this nuc chest thumping is wrong---and yes---I will do my part in stopping it---and we should take a different route.

I would suggest top follow the sunnat-----. Please correct me if I am wrong---after the hijrat--muslims in median starting feeling better about themselves-----and started collecting weapons to prepare themselves for any aggression from those of mecca.

So---supposedly---after collecting 10 swords and 20 fighting sticks or something like that---the muslims of medina started strutting around showing their weapons and started challenging the kuffars---to the Prophet Mohammad stated---" keep low---don't show your weapons to the enemy---don't let the enemy know about your preparations---don't let the enemy know what weapons that you have "----supposedly the Prophet's saying was similar to what I have written above---if it is any different in meaning---please correct.

But even if the Prophet Mohammad had not stated something similar----it has been the traditional course of smaller nations to hide their strengths---or play it at a lower key.

The thing is that if US wants to take out our nuke he will do it, it doesn't matter if we join KSA alliance or we don't. We know we are not the blue eyed boy for US.

Hi,

But at least we need to make changes that decrease the level of threat---that makes the posture less threatening---that aligns us with credible associates and makes us a part of the team that still has some influence over the powers to be---rather than iran---which only brings us to destruction and mayhem.