Early delivery of 3 Chinese Z-10s to Pakistan an attempt to outperform Russia

[Zhukov]

Or maybe a flying saucer from Ancient Bharat

 

[Zibago]

Dont laugh it had lazer gun and antimatter cannons

 

[Path-Finder]

Or maybe a flying saucer from Ancient Bharat

Vedic flying saucer

 

[Zibago]

Vedic flying saucer

With lazer guns,anti matter cannon and gravity defying engines

 

[tahir195]

With lazer guns,anti matter cannon and gravity defying engines

bus kar de Pagle Rulae ga kia

 

[tarrar]

Since Russians are ready to sell defence hardware to Pakistan, then Pakistan's first preference should be Russia then China. As Russians are more advance than China.

 

[rockstar08]

Dil Behlane ko Galib yeh Khayal bhi acha hai

 

[HAIDER]

There is reason why production of JF17 is slow and why hundreds of modification are done at PAC. When comes to quality China rely on Russia, its front line fighter is Russian SU27/J11,SU30 and recently China sign contract of Russian state of the art S400 defence system. China navel defense system HQ1 based on Russia missile system. Even Chinese J31 is using Russian RD93 smokey engine. Pakistan is working hard to either replace with Chinese WS series engine(still under develop) or RD33 Russian engine , where they controlled the smoke issue. China using AL31fn for its top of line stealth fighters. Z10 is developed by Russian. They did many modification in this helicopter.
Also FT2000 was copy of Russian S200, which has accuracy issue and later left in the middle for further modification and never seen on military stage again.

A recent post on Aviation Week revealed that China's cutting edge Z-10 helicopter is actually Russian.

That's right, China's premier attack helicopter, a first for the fledgling super power, was a product of the Russian company Kamov, Guy Norris of Aviation Week reports.

"Sergei Mikheyev, General Designer of the Kamov Design Bureau ... dropped the proverbial bombshell at Heli-Expo here in Las Vegas this afternoon," Norris writes, "Mikheyev told an astonished crowd that China’s Z-10/WZ-10 attack helicopter was actually designed in great secrecy under contract for China by Kamov."

Kamov is a Russian "rotary wing" helicopter manufacturing company which has seen great success building attack and transport helicopters for the Russian Air Force.

China played it off the whole time as if its company Changhe Aircraft Industries Corporation was spearheading the lead on development. Maybe Kamov and the Russian felt bad for rejecting China's bids to buy MiG jets and attack helicopters in the late 90s early 200s.

It's important to note that Kamov was not the only entity that gave China a hand. Pratt and Whitney, and Canadian defense company, paid a hefty $75 million dollar fine for delivering helicopter engine hardware for the Z-10 to China.

Dave Majumdar of Flight Global write:

After Kamov completed the design, the Russian design bureau verified the design via testing. Kamov then delivered the design to China and the Project 941 concept was accepted by that country's government for further development, [Mikheyev] says. Kamov did not participate in any further developmental work on the WZ-10, [Mikheyev] insists.

Majumdar explained that the Russian company kept the whole thing under wraps, "for obvious reasons," Mikheyev said.

China has poured money into its slow-moving defense manufacturing and fabrication industry in an attempt to shock it to life — the sector has been plagued with inefficiencies and corruption. China has made concerted efforts to curtail it's import of arms from Russia in the hopes of saving money and making a buck or two providing exports


Read more: Russia Built Chinese Z10 Helicopter - Business Insider

 

[shah1398]

We would love to buy F-35s but can we afford it now? Its just like wishing to have Champagne dreams with Pepsi budget. I really wish if we could soon convert these wishlists into reality.

Pakistan is working hard to either replace with Chinese WS series engine(still under develop) or RD33 Russian engine , where they controlled the smoke issue

Can anyone please inform the house if the smoke issue of any engine esp like RD-93 has any impact on performance of any jet engine?Would love to hear some good facts on this.

 

[Arsalan]

Can anyone please inform the house if the smoke issue of any engine esp like RD-93 has any impact on performance of any jet engine?Would love to hear some good facts on this.

Smoke is an indication of working issues, most commonly extra fuel consumption. So you cannot say that smoke is impacting the performance as it is the other way around, the performance effecting problems, (extra fuel consumption) is generating the smoke.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The helicopters have been moved to advance positions around east coast beware terrorist

 

[aamerjamal]

We were also briefed about Rafale and Euro Fighters @Zarvan , getting briefed and showing interest in procurement are two entirely different things. PA wont go for Mi-28, specially considering the ongoing deals of Zulus and Z-10 development, do you think PA is going to operate a different attack helicopter for every province? Buying 20 20 of each!! PA do have some interest in some Mi-35s, though we are initially going for only 4 for ANF but more MAY follow as an assault helicopter platform. A few Mi-17 for transport role may be but saying that we are buying Buk and Pantsir, buying Mi-28 and other goodies is a bit too much of exaggeration. AGAIN, the claim in this same article about PN getting Chines Nuclear Sub is enough to prove its authenticity.

dont u think the writer miss quoted the 'QING Class- test bed' abale to launch nuclear missiles with nuclear sub, just replace this and you might start to find some if not all authenticity in it

 

[shah1398]

Smoke is an indication of working issues, most commonly extra fuel consumption. So you cannot say that smoke is impacting the performance as it is the other way around, the performance effecting problems, (extra fuel consumption) is generating the smoke.

Thank U Sir.I can understand that part that smoke especially the black one is usually generated due to unburned fuel which are exhausted out of engine in shape of carbon particles but as long as it does not affect the performance of the engine and hence the thrust for aircraft then i think we can live with it till get some suitable replacement. It would be another issue of this smoke is actually reducing the total life of the engine in long term.

 

[HAIDER]

While true that engine efficiency is the over arching issue when talking about "smoke" it is also worth keeping in mind that as engine throttle/power reaches its higher limits say above 85% power it starts to produce the "smoke" in a visible way. The type of engine and how the mixture is achieved all impact "smoke". When a afterburner is engaged on a plane it burns off this smoke which is basically carbon and oil/fuel mixture that is expelled at high power settings. But they are older engines and RD33 is doing well. Hope Pakistan get that engine soon.

 

[Arsalan]

Thank U Sir.I can understand that part that smoke especially the black one is usually generated due to unburned fuel which are exhausted out of engine in shape of carbon particles but as long as it does not affect the performance of the engine and hence the thrust for aircraft then i think we can live with it till get some suitable replacement. It would be another issue of this smoke is actually reducing the total life of the engine in long term.

PAC/PAF are looking forward for the suitable replacement in form of WS-13. The engine is undergoing trails in China and as reported by Chinese officials at the Paris Show that it have completed lab trials and is now in flight testing with the JF-17. Once it is proven to be good for the plane, we will induct it and it seems that the Block-III will be flying with WS-13 judging by the speed of events.

AS for smoke effecting performance, the unburned fuel that cause smoke is itself a performance effecting phenomena. If the engine is not bringing all the fuel properly it is not generating required power and is also consuming more fuel. In a fighter jet both these count as the plane carries a limited fuel supply.

ANYWAY, BETTER TAKE THIS QUESTION AND DISCUSSION TO THE RELEVANT THREAD ABOUT JF-17 PLEASE

JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 6] | Page 181