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EADS Eurofighter in the MRCA competition Thread

Rafale - No orders yet on plate. They have to make a sale or face oblivion.

I thought rafale was the winner in the Brazilian competition. Here's a quote from a thread titled "Rafael wins Brazil MMRCA competition":

Brazil, France in advanced talks on fighter jet deal: Lula

Sun Sep 6, 2:44 PM
PARIS (AFP) - Talks between Brazil and France on a major deal to buy Rafale combat jets are at a "very advanced" stage and headed toward agreement, Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva said Sunday.Made by France's Dassault Systems, the Rafale fighter is in competition with the Swedish-made Gripen and Boeing's F/A-18 Super Hornet for a contract worth four billion dollars (2.8 billion euros) to supply Brazil with 36 fighter aircraft.
Lula told RFI radio and TV5Monde that negotiations were showing progress, as French President Nicolas Sarkozy traveled to Brasilia for a two-day state visit starting Monday.
"What I can say is that our discussions are at a very advanced stages and I think that we will reach a good understanding with France," said the Brazilian president.
"The talks with President Sarkozy are progressing very rapidly. We are on the right course, the right path. We have a relationship of trust," he added.
If France's Dassault does sell its Rafales to Brazil, it would be the first time the jets have been sold abroad.
Analysts said France's offer to give Brazil the technology behind the multi-role combat aircraft as part of the sale of 36 planes could give it the edge over the rival bids from the United States and Sweden.
France is also holding talks with the United Arab Emirates for the sale of 60 Rafale fighters jets in a bigger deal that could be worth between six and eight billion euros.

See? Now UAE is also a possible customer.

Mig corp is in doldrums ..even though it has merged with Sukhoi , it is still a company.

I think you are wrong here. Here's something I found on wikipedia:

The Russian government merged 100% of Mikoyan shares with Ilyushin, Irkut, Sukhoi, Tupolev, and Yakovlev as a new company named United Aircraft Corporation. Specifically, Mikoyan and Sukhoi were placed within the same operating unit.

MiG hasn't merged with sukhoi. Both MiG and Sukhoi are part of the United Aircraft Corporation.
 
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I thought rafale was the winner in the Brazilian competition.

Not yet. It is a political battle happening in Brazil. Lula and Jobim are backing Rafale - also Sarkozy is heaving advertizing for it including deal sweetners. However general public opinion including Brazilian AF's opinion is towards Gripen.

Its battle between Gripen and Rafale in Brazilian tender.

Its costing Brazil more than $4 Billion dollars for 36 plane deal. I doubt if it includes ToT.

See? Now UAE is also a possible customer.

Its a possible customer. Nothing has been signed yet. So you see if Brazil and UAE deal doesnt happen then Rafale is in a huge problem. Rafale's future is unclear.

This brings me to another interesting fact which is UAE --- UAE has demanded Rafale make significant changes to thrust power from 7.5 KTto 9 KT. This involves good amount of R&D, negotiations are happening between French and UAE to see if this deal can materialize. However UAE never had a problem with Money...they loads of it.

MiG hasn't merged woth sukhoi. Both MiG and Sukhoi are part of the United Aircraft Corporation.

Sukhoi was the sole and the only company in United Aircraft Corporation, i belive YAK to was there but its now defunct. Hence i said Mig merged with Sukhoi , in other words Mig merged with UAC.

This was to help MiG with its financial troubles and also to assist the bleeding aircraft maker.
 
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No dream plzz

J-10B which is nt known yet bt i think it will nt be better then EF,Rafale or f-18
yes it will be better then gripen,Mig 35 and f-16.
:woot::woot::woot::woot:
what mig 35??????????????????????????:cheesy:
think its time to wake up:lazy: . ur having some strange dreams lately..:P
 
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Second that. Eurofighter is the future of European air forces. It has several technologies only second to PAK FA and F-22. It has bright future as well.
It is also my fav but all the NATO allies are waiting for f-35 and in the same time the economic crisis in EU and most of backing in this project comes from Germany only, if Ger withdraw from the eft project I don't see any good future of it, in due course it can survive only if India join the project as a partner. But India has its own project like LCA, MCA
 
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Never ever discount Americans like that. They are master salesman and in all probability will make a deal which we will find hard to refuse. Our politicians might just suck it up considering the fact that all planes have cleared our flight evaluation tests (as far as i know). I personally wouldnt like F16 or F18 to be selected but...


Why F16.................Reports indicate that the Indian Air Force is not too interested in buying the F-16, since the Pakistan Air Force already operates the same type, and, having had exercises along with F-16s of the USAF, RSAF and other air forces. The capabilities of the F-16 appear to be similar to the Mirage 2000s that the IAF currently operates. The F-16 is also more prone to pilot errors than the Mirage 2000H, which would also work against the F-16. Lockheed Martin may be removed from the competition due to its willingness to provide advanced F-16s to Pakistan.

Alos old design.



F18.................Good Plane, but uncle SAM is not a reliable partner to trust upon.


Practically Gripen seems to be the best over all choice ...low operating costs , low cost of the plane , NG seems to have evolved quite nicely, etc... It would be a great plane in IAF colors if inducted.

Gripen..................As per my knowledge (which is not too good, but still........), this is the smallest and most inferior plane in most aspects of the competition.


I adore Rafale (My favourite) but is too expensive and way less power compared to other aircrafts.. I am not sure how India can afford 120+ rafale or EF.

Is that word afford

You are not sure how the fourth largest by purchasing power parity (PPP) and now second fastest growing economy can afford 120 Rafale. No Offence, but can't control my laugh. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Leave the economy, please read below.


India to buy $ 100 billion weapons, defence equipment
Updated at: 1144 PST, Sunday, September 27, 2009
NEW DELHI: India plans to spend an estimated $100 billion on defence over the next decade to modernize its Soviet-era arsenal and is pushing the Obama administration to ease the acquisition of US weapons and technology, according to a US Newspaper.

“With its growing military footprint, India is steering away from traditional ally Russia, its main weapons supplier, and looking toward the United States to help upgrade its weapons systems and troop gear,” the newspaper reported.

India’s expanding military ambitions, and the US role in selling this nuclear-armed nation more firepower, is starting to worry Pakistan, the report said. India also has ongoing border disputes with another Asian giant, China, which defeated it in a short 1962 war.

“This increase in India’s military spending is seen with rising anxiety here in Pakistan,” said Hasan-Askari Rizvi, a leading defence analyst in Pakistan.

“As long as India builds pressure on Pakistan militarily, Pakistan won’t move troops to fight the Taliban, period. In the future, there could potentially be a situation like the 1965 war between India and Pakistan, where both used American weapons against each other.”

“India is pushing the Obama administration to ease the acquisition of US weapons and technology. Already this year, a high-level US government group cleared the way for Lockheed and Boeing to offer India cutting-edge radar technology for fighter jets. At the US Embassy in New Delhi, defence contractors such as Northrop Grumman are sponsoring little league baseball teams, the companies’ names stitched onto the uniforms.”

About 70 percent of India’s military equipment comes from Russia, said Sitanshu Kar, a spokesman for the Indian Defense Ministry. But some Indian military officials have complained about the quality and cost of Russian equipment and have advocated a shift to US suppliers.

“We’ve had a long-standing relationship with Russia. But that’s changing now,” Kar said.

The country that spawned the Gandhian principles of non-violence now has a shopping list that includes 126 fighter jets, 155mm howitzers, long-range maritime reconnaissance aircraft, vast cargo planes used in long-distance conflicts, high-tech helicopters and deep-water submarines. Boeing is vying with Lockheed—along with French, Russian and Swedish companies and a European consortium—for a fighter jet deal worth about $10 billion.

India is holding flight tests for the fighter jets. Lockheed and Boeing have conducted demonstration flights for Indian celebrities and defense experts. Irrespective of who wins the deal, New Delhi is requiring that at least 50 percent of the contract value be farmed out to Indian companies for goods, labour and material.

After terrorist attacks in Mumbai, India’s financial capital, in November, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh vowed to overhaul the country’s intelligence service and weaponry. And he has since reiterated the pledge.

“We will do all that is necessary to modernize the security and intelligence services, and that’s a commitment which is essential,” Singh said after a budget announcement this summer.



ALSO:


Order value for MRCA: (from wikipedia)
The Order is for 126 aircraft with the option to buy another 64 - 74 more. While there were reports of the direct order being increased to 200, or split between two vendors, Former Chief of Air Staff of the IAF, Air Marshal S.P. Tyagi stated during Aero India 2007 that the number would remain the same, and would be sourced from a single vendor. The first squadron would be directly supplied by the vendor, while the rest would be manufactured under license in India by HAL. He stated however, that as the bidding progressed, this could change.

The Government of India has sanctioned approximately US$10 billion (Rs. 42,000 crore), with reports that another US$2 billion might be added to this. This is indicative of the high importance of the order to the respective vendors.


LAST ONE (also from wikipedia)

European fighters have become 25% cheaper. CEO of Eurofighter consortorium says that he now has more than 50% chance in the competition.


My WISH:
1. Rafale.
2. Typhoon.
3. F/A-18E/F
 
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Why F16.................Reports indicate that the Indian Air Force is not too interested in buying the F-16, since the Pakistan Air Force already operates the same type, and, having had exercises along with F-16s of the USAF, RSAF and other air forces. The capabilities of the F-16 appear to be similar to the Mirage 2000s that the IAF currently operates. The F-16 is also more prone to pilot errors than the Mirage 2000H, which would also work against the F-16. Lockheed Martin may be removed from the competition due to its willingness to provide advanced F-16s to Pakistan.

Alos old design.



F18.................Good Plane, but uncle SAM is not a reliable partner to trust upon.




Gripen..................As per my knowledge (which is not too good, but still........), this is the smallest and most inferior plane in most aspects of the competition.




Is that word afford

You are not sure how the fourth largest by purchasing power parity (PPP) and now second fastest growing economy can afford 120 Rafale. No Offence, but can't control my laugh. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Leave the economy, please read below.


India to buy $ 100 billion weapons, defence equipment
Updated at: 1144 PST, Sunday, September 27, 2009
NEW DELHI: India plans to spend an estimated $100 billion on defence over the next decade to modernize its Soviet-era arsenal and is pushing the Obama administration to ease the acquisition of US weapons and technology, according to a US Newspaper.

“With its growing military footprint, India is steering away from traditional ally Russia, its main weapons supplier, and looking toward the United States to help upgrade its weapons systems and troop gear,” the newspaper reported.

India’s expanding military ambitions, and the US role in selling this nuclear-armed nation more firepower, is starting to worry Pakistan, the report said. India also has ongoing border disputes with another Asian giant, China, which defeated it in a short 1962 war.

“This increase in India’s military spending is seen with rising anxiety here in Pakistan,” said Hasan-Askari Rizvi, a leading defence analyst in Pakistan.

“As long as India builds pressure on Pakistan militarily, Pakistan won’t move troops to fight the Taliban, period. In the future, there could potentially be a situation like the 1965 war between India and Pakistan, where both used American weapons against each other.”

“India is pushing the Obama administration to ease the acquisition of US weapons and technology. Already this year, a high-level US government group cleared the way for Lockheed and Boeing to offer India cutting-edge radar technology for fighter jets. At the US Embassy in New Delhi, defence contractors such as Northrop Grumman are sponsoring little league baseball teams, the companies’ names stitched onto the uniforms.”

About 70 percent of India’s military equipment comes from Russia, said Sitanshu Kar, a spokesman for the Indian Defense Ministry. But some Indian military officials have complained about the quality and cost of Russian equipment and have advocated a shift to US suppliers.

“We’ve had a long-standing relationship with Russia. But that’s changing now,” Kar said.

The country that spawned the Gandhian principles of non-violence now has a shopping list that includes 126 fighter jets, 155mm howitzers, long-range maritime reconnaissance aircraft, vast cargo planes used in long-distance conflicts, high-tech helicopters and deep-water submarines. Boeing is vying with Lockheed—along with French, Russian and Swedish companies and a European consortium—for a fighter jet deal worth about $10 billion.

India is holding flight tests for the fighter jets. Lockheed and Boeing have conducted demonstration flights for Indian celebrities and defense experts. Irrespective of who wins the deal, New Delhi is requiring that at least 50 percent of the contract value be farmed out to Indian companies for goods, labour and material.

After terrorist attacks in Mumbai, India’s financial capital, in November, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh vowed to overhaul the country’s intelligence service and weaponry. And he has since reiterated the pledge.

“We will do all that is necessary to modernize the security and intelligence services, and that’s a commitment which is essential,” Singh said after a budget announcement this summer.



ALSO:


Order value for MRCA: (from wikipedia)
The Order is for 126 aircraft with the option to buy another 64 - 74 more. While there were reports of the direct order being increased to 200, or split between two vendors, Former Chief of Air Staff of the IAF, Air Marshal S.P. Tyagi stated during Aero India 2007 that the number would remain the same, and would be sourced from a single vendor. The first squadron would be directly supplied by the vendor, while the rest would be manufactured under license in India by HAL. He stated however, that as the bidding progressed, this could change.

The Government of India has sanctioned approximately US$10 billion (Rs. 42,000 crore), with reports that another US$2 billion might be added to this. This is indicative of the high importance of the order to the respective vendors.


LAST ONE (also from wikipedia)

European fighters have become 25% cheaper. CEO of Eurofighter consortorium says that he now has more than 50% chance in the competition.


My WISH:
1. Rafale.
2. Typhoon.
3. F/A-18E/F

I would say very thoughtful analysis .
I have read it twice - simply loved those reasons to reject US hardware , and Gripen being inferior of all .
:toast_sign:
 
. . . .
I would say very thoughtful analysis .
I have read it twice - simply loved those reasons to reject US hardware , and Gripen being inferior of all .
:toast_sign:


:undecided: Maliko...........tussi ta naraaz ho gaye lagde ho....I believe u hv soft corner in your heart for Gripen.

I ment (by inferior) that Gripen is not fit for the role.

We have a very good HeavyWeight Sumo fighter...........Sukhoi Su-30MKI.

We will have our own LightWeight Fighter soon...........Tejas LCA, which is quite similar to Gripen. Plz chk...

JAS 39 Gripen - Specifications

COST: US$40-61 million (export price VAT excluded) (Offered at US$48 million to India according to Wikipedia)


General characteristics

• Crew: 1 (2 for JAS 39B/D)
• Length: 14.1 m (46 ft 3 in)
• Wingspan: 8.4 m (27 ft 7 in)
• Height: 4.5 m (14 ft 9 in)
• Wing area: 30.0 m² (323 ft²)
• Empty weight: 5,700 kg (12,600 lb)
• Loaded weight: 8,500 kg (18,700 lb)
• Max takeoff weight: 14,000 kg

• Powerplant: 1× Volvo Aero RM12 afterburning turbofan
o Dry thrust: 54 kN (12,100 lbf)
o Thrust with afterburner: 80.5 kN (18,100 lbf)

• Wheel track: 2.4 m (7 ft 10 in)
• Length (two-seater): 14.8 m (48 ft 5 in)


Performance

• Maximum speed:
o At altitude: Mach 2 (2,470 km/h, 1,372 mph)

• Combat radius: 800 km (500 mi, 432 nmi)
• Ferry range: 3,200 km (2,000 mi) with drop tanks
• Service ceiling: 15,240 m (50,000 ft)
• Wing loading: 336 kg/m² (68.8 lb/ft²)
• Thrust/weight: 0.97


Armament

• 1× 27 mm Mauser BK-27 cannon 120 rounds
• 6× Rb.74 (AIM-9) or Rb 98 (IRIS-T)
• 4× Rb.99 (AIM-120) or MICA
• 4× Rb.71 (Skyflash) or Meteor
• 4× Rb.75
• 2× KEPD.350
• 4× GBU-12 Paveway II laser-guided bomb
• 4× rocket pods 13.5 cm rockets
• 2× Rbs.15F anti-ship missile
• 2× Bk.90 cluster bomb
• 8× Mark 82 bombs
• 1× ALQ-TLS ECM pod


____________________________________________________


HAL Tejas - Specifications

COST: Unit cost US$21 million {US$27 million less than Gripen (according to Wikipedia)}
US$31.09 million (Naval version).



General characteristics

• Crew: 1
• Length: 13.20 m (43 ft 4 in)
• Wingspan: 8.20 m (26 ft 11 in)
• Height: 4.40 m (14 ft 9 in)
• Wing area: 38.4 m² (413 ft²)
• Empty weight: 5,680kg (12,522 lb) {20 kg less than Gripen}
• Loaded weight: 9,500 kg (20,945 lb) {1000 kg more than Gripen}
• Max takeoff weight: 13,500 kg {500 kg less than Gripen}

• Powerplant: 1× General Electric F404-GE-IN20 turbofan
o Dry thrust: 53.9 kN (11,250 lbf) {0.1 kN less than Gripen}
o Thrust with afterburner: 85 kN (19,100 lbf) {4.5 kN more than Gripen}

• Internal fuel capacity: 3000 liters
• External fuel capacity: 5×800 liter tanks or 3×1,200 liter tanks, totaling 4,000/3,600 liters


Performance

• Maximum speed: Mach 2+ (2,376+ km/h at high altitude) at 15,000 m {almost same}
• Range: 3000 km (1,840 mi (without refueling)) {200 km less than Gripen}
• Service ceiling: 16,500 m (54,000 ft (engine re-igniter safely capable)) {1260 m more than Gripen}
• Wing loading: 221.4 kg/m² (45.35 lb/ft²)
• Thrust/weight: 1.02 {0.5 more than Gripen}


Armament

• Guns: 1× mounted 23 mm twin-barrel GSh-23 cannon with 220 rounds of ammunition.
• Hardpoints: 8 total: 1× beneath the port-side intake trunk, 6× under-wing, and 1× under-fuselage with a capacity of >4000 kg external fuel and ordnance


• Missiles:

• Air-to-air missiles:
o Python 5
o Derby
o Astra BVRAAM
o Vympel R-77 (NATO reporting name: AA-12 Adder)
o Vympel R-73 (NATO reporting name: AA-11 Archer)

• Air-to-surface missiles:
o Kh-59ME TV guided standoff Missile
o Kh-59MK Laser guided standoff Missile

o Anti-ship missile
o Kh-35
o Kh-31
• Bombs:
• KAB-1500L laser guided bombs
• FAB-500T dumb bombs
• OFAB-250-270 dumb bombs
• OFAB-100-120 dumb bombs
• RBK-500 cluster bombs


Avionics

Hybrid MMR radar (Israeli EL/M-2032 back end processor with Indian inputs)

____________________________________________________





Now please tell me, why should we spent money, which is more than US$10 billion, on an aircraft quite similar to our own Tejas. Plus no political gain.

Worthy to note that the total project cost for Tejas is 12000-13000 crore (US$3-3.2 billion).






What we need is..........................................MiddleWeight Fighter. And those are:

Dassault Rafale - Specifications

COST: ~US$67.2 million or €48 million (according to Wikipedia)

General characteristics:

• Crew: 1–2
• Length: 15.27 m (50.1 ft)
• Wingspan: 10.80 m (35.4 ft)
• Height: 5.34 m (17.5 ft)
• Wing area: 45.7 m² (492 ft²)
• Empty weight: 9,500 kg (C), 9,770 kg (B),[68] 10,196 kg (M)
• Max takeoff weight: 24,500 kg (C/D), 22,200 kg (M)[69] (54,000 lb)

• Powerplant: 2× Snecma M88-2 turbofans
o Dry thrust: 50.04 kN (11,250 lbf) each
o Thrust with afterburner: 75.62 kN (17,000 lbf) each


Performance:

• Maximum speed:
o High altitude: Mach 2 (2,390 km/h, 1,290 knots)[68]
o Low altitude: 1,390 km/h, 750 knots
• Range: 3,700+ km (2,000+ nmi)
• Combat radius: 1,852+ km (1,000+ nmi) on penetration mission
• Service ceiling: 16,800 m (55,000 ft)
• Rate of climb: 304.8+ m/s (1,000+ ft/s)
• Wing loading: 326 kg/m² (83 1/3 lb/ft²)
• Thrust/weight: 1.13


Armament:

• Guns: 1× 30 mm (1.18 in) GIAT 30/719B cannon with 125 rounds
• Hardpoints: 14 For Armée de l'Air version (Rafale B,C), 13 for Aéronavale version (Rafale M)[citation needed] with a capacity of 9,500 kg (21,000 lb) external fuel and ordnance

• Missiles:

o Air-to-air:
 MICA IR/EM or
 Magic II and in the future
 MBDA Meteor
o Air-to-ground:
 MBDA Apache or
 SCALP EG or
 AASM or
 GBU-12 Paveway II or
 AM 39 Exocet or
 ASMP-A nuclear missile

• Others:
o Thales Damocles targeting pod
o RECO NG reconnaissance pod
o up to 5 drop tanks


Avionics:

• Thales RBE2 radar
• Thales SPECTRA electronic warfare system.
• Thales/SAGEM OSF (Optronique Secteur Frontal) infrared search and track system.


____________________________________________________


Mikoyan MiG-29 - Specifications
The MiG-35 is currently in development. Information listed below is preliminary and may change.

COST: US$38.5 million (according to Wikipedia)

General characteristics:

• Crew: one or two
• Length: 19 m (62 ft 4 in)
• Wingspan: 15 m (49 ft 3 in)
• Height: 6 m (19 ft 8 in)
• Empty weight: 11,000 kg (24,250 lb)
• Loaded weight: 17,500 kg (38,600 lb)
• Max takeoff weight: 29,700 kg (65,500 lb)

• Powerplant: 2× Klimov RD-33MK afterburning turbofans
o Dry thrust: 5,400 kgf, 53.0 kN (11,900 lbf) each
o Thrust with afterburner: 9,000 kgf, 88.3 kN (19,800 lbf) each


Performance:
• Maximum speed: Mach 2.25 (2,400 km/h, 1,491 mph) at altitude
• Range: 2,000 km (1,240 mi)
• Ferry range: 3,100 km (1,930 mi) with 3 external fuel tanks
• Service ceiling: 17,500 m (57,400 ft)
• Rate of climb: 330 m/s (65,000 ft/min)
• Thrust/weight: 1.03


Armament:
• Guns: 1× 30 mm GSh-30-1 cannon, 150 rounds
• Hardpoints: 9 total (8× under-wing, 1× centre-line) with a capacity of over 6,500 kg external fuel and ordnance[citation needed]
• Rockets: S-8, S-13, S-24, S-25L, S-250 unguided and laser-guided rockets


• Missiles:

o Air-to-air:
 AA-10 Alamo: 4× R-27R, R-27T, R-27ER, R-27ET
 AA-8 Aphid: 4× R-60M
 AA-11 Archer: 8× R-73E, R-73M, R-74M
 AA-12 Adder: 8× R-77
o Air-to-surface:
 AS-17 Krypton: 4× Kh-31A, Kh-31P
 AS-14 Kedge: 4× Kh-29T, Kh-29L


• Bombs:

o Guided:
 KAB-500L: 500 kg laser-guided bomb
 KAB-500T: 500 kg TV-guided bomb
o Unguided:
 FAB-250: 250 kg bomb
 FAB-500: 500 kg bomb
 ZAB-500 fuel-air explosive Bomb


Avionics:
• Phazotron Zhuk AE AESA radar (or other members of the Zhuk radar family) [23]
• NII PP Optical Locator System

____________________________________________________


Eurofighter Typhoon - Specifications

COST: ~ US$91.2 million or €63 million (according to Wikipedia)

General characteristics:

• Crew: 1 (operational aircraft) or 2 (training aircraft)
• Length: 15.96 m (52 ft 5 in)
• Wingspan: 10.95 m (35 ft 11 in)
• Height: 5.28 m (17 ft 4 in)
• Wing area: 51.2 m2[185] (551 ft2)
• Empty weight: 11,000 kg (24,250 lb)
• Loaded weight: 16,000 kg[185] (35,300 lb)
• Max takeoff weight: 23,500 kg (51,800 lb)

• Powerplant: 2× Eurojet EJ200 afterburning turbofan
o Dry thrust: 60 kN (13,500 lbf) each
o Thrust with afterburner: 90 kN (20,250 lbf) each


Performance:

• Maximum speed:
o At altitude: Mach 2 (2,495 km/h, 1,550 mph)[186][187]
o At sea level: Mach 1.2[184] (1,470 km/h / 913.2 mph)[188]
o Supercruise: Mach 1.1–1.5[182][189]
• Range: 2,900 km (1,840 mi)
• Combat radius:
o Ground attack, lo-lo-lo: 601 km (325 nmi)
o Ground attack, hi-lo-hi: 1,389 km (750 nmi)
o Air defence with 3-hr CAP: 185 km (100 nmi)
o Air defence with 10-min loiter: 1,389 km (863 nmi) [190]
• Ferry range: 3,790 km (2,300 mi)
• Service ceiling: 19,810 m (65,000 ft)
• Rate of climb: >315 m/s[191][192] (62,000 ft/min[193])
• Wing loading: 312 kg/m2[185] (64.0 lb/ft2)


Armament:

• Guns: 1 × 27 mm Mauser BK-27 cannon with 150 rounds
• Hardpoints: Total of 13: 8 × under-wing plus 5 × under-fuselage pylon stations holding up to 7,500 kg (16,500 lb) of payload[185][194]


• Missiles:

o Air-to-air missiles:
 AIM-9 Sidewinder, AIM-132 ASRAAM, AIM-120 AMRAAM, IRIS-T, and, in the future, MBDA Meteor

o Air-to-surface missiles:
 AGM-84 Harpoon, AGM-88 HARM, ALARM, Storm Shadow (AKA Scalp EG), Brimstone, Taurus KEPD 350, Penguin and in the future AGM Armiger

• Bombs: Paveway II/III/Enhanced Paveway series of Laser-guided bombs (LGBs), Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM), HOPE/HOSBO
• Others:
o Flares/infrared decoys dispenser pod and chaff pod and
o Electronic countermeasures (ECM) pods
o LITENING III laser targeting pod
o Up to 3 drop tanks for ferry flight or extended range/loitering time.


Avionics:

• Euroradar CAPTOR Radar
• Passive Infra-Red Airborne Tracking Equipment (PIRATE)


____________________________________________________


Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet - Specifications

COST: US$58 million (according to Wikipedia)

General characteristics:

• Crew: F/A-18E: 1, F/A-18F: 2
• Length: 60 ft 1¼ in (18.31 m)
• Wingspan: 44 ft 8½ in (13.62 m)
• Height: 16 ft (4.88 m)
• Wing area: 500 ft² (46.45 m²)
• Empty weight: 30,600 lb (13,900 kg)
• Loaded weight: 47,000 lb (21,320 kg) (in fighter configuration)
• Max takeoff weight: 66,000 lb (29,900 kg)

• Powerplant: 2× General Electric F414-GE-400 turbofans
o Dry thrust: 14,000 lbf (62.3 kN) each
o Thrust with afterburner: 22,000 lbf (97.9 kN) each

• Internal fuel capacity: F/A-18E: 14,400 lb (6,530 kg), F/A-18F: 13,550 lb (6,145 kg)
• External fuel capacity: 5 × 480 gal tanks, totaling 16,380 lb (7,430 kg)


Performance:

• Maximum speed: Mach 1.8+[13] (1,190 mph, 1,900 km/h) at 40,000 ft (12,190 m)
• Range: 1,275 nmi (2,346 km) clean plus two AIM-9s[13]
• Combat radius: 390 nmi (449 mi, 722 km) for interdiction mission[86]
• Ferry range: 1,800 nmi (2,070 mi, 3,330 km)
• Service ceiling: 50,000+ ft (15,000+ m)
• Wing loading: 92.8 lb/ft² (453 kg/m²)
• Thrust/weight: 0.93
• Design load factor: 7.6 g[87]


Armament:

• Guns: 1× 20 mm (0.787 in) M61 Vulcan nose mounted gatling gun, 578 rounds
• Hardpoints: 11 total: 2× wingtips, 6× under-wing, and 3× under-fuselage with a capacity of 17,750 lb (8,050 kg) external fuel and ordnance

• Rockets:


• Missiles:

o Air-to-air missiles:
 4× AIM-9 Sidewinder or 4× AIM-120 AMRAAM, and
 2× AIM-7 Sparrow or additional 2× AIM-120 AMRAAM

o Air-to-surface missiles:
 AGM-65 Maverick
 Standoff Land Attack Missile (SLAM-ER)
 AGM-88 HARM Anti-radiation missile
 AGM-154 Joint Standoff Weapon (JSOW)

o Anti-ship missile:
 AGM-84 Harpoon

• Bombs:
o JDAM Precision-guided munition (PGMs)
o Paveway series of Laser guided bombs
o Mk 80 series of unguided iron bombs
o CBU-87 cluster
o CBU-78 Gator
o CBU-97
o Mk 20 Rockeye II

• Others:
o SUU-42A/A Flares/Infrared decoys dispenser pod and chaff pod or
o Electronic countermeasures (ECM) pod or
o AN/ASQ-228 ATFLIR Targeting pods or
o up to 3× 330 US gallon (1,200 L) Sargent Fletcher drop tanks for ferry flight or extended range/loitering time or
o 1× 330 US gal (1,200 L) tank and 4× 480 US gal (1,800 L) tanks for aerial refueling system (ARS).


Avionics:

• Hughes APG-73 or Raytheon APG-79 Radar

____________________________________________________

AGAIN - My wish:
1. Rafale.
2. Typhoon.
3. F/A-18E/F Super Hornet.
 
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Supermanji---saw the post quite late...Quite humorous post actually :tup:..now lets see what you wrote !



Why F16.................Reports indicate that the Indian Air Force is not too interested in buying the F-16, since the Pakistan Air Force already operates the same type, and, having had exercises along with F-16s of the USAF, RSAF and other air forces. The capabilities of the F-16 appear to be similar to the Mirage 2000s that the IAF currently operates. The F-16 is also more prone to pilot errors than the Mirage 2000H, which would also work against the F-16. Lockheed Martin may be removed from the competition due to its willingness to provide advanced F-16s to Pakistan.

Alos old design.


Care to explain the bold part ?

The fact that PAF has this plane is the only thing that is going against them otherwise there is no other better option in terms of maintenance, service length , potency and Life cycle costs (read affordability)


[/QUOTE]



F18.................Good Plane, but uncle SAM is not a reliable partner to trust upon.

Papaji,

Really ! You think so !! P8I's , gun locating radars , towed howitzers (under negotiation) , 130J and maybe C17 --

Its not so much as a case of SAM being a reliable or not -- its a case of what uncle SAM can offer us in exchange of this deal. A seat at UN security council and this deal will pretty much go to F18.


Gripen..................As per my knowledge (which is not too good, but still........), this is the smallest and most inferior plane in most aspects of the competition.


Gripen being inferior -- please superman ji dont leave us with one liners -- explain your thoughts on why you think its inferior !!

Is that word afford

You are not sure how the fourth largest by purchasing power parity (PPP) and now second fastest growing economy can afford 120 Rafale. No Offence, but can't control my laugh. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Leave the economy, please read below.



India to buy $ 100 billion weapons, defence equipment
Updated at: 1144 PST, Sunday, September 27, 2009
NEW DELHI: India plans to spend an estimated $100 billion on defence over the next decade to modernize its Soviet-era arsenal and is pushing the Obama administration to ease the acquisition of US weapons and technology, according to a US Newspaper.


You really have no idea ..do you ? :coffee:.......you think just because India is planning to spend some dollars it will be able to afford and absorb any fighter aircraft ? You dont have any idea what a budget means right ? You do know what life cycle costs mean right !!

Now lets see your news article ---
100 billion over one decade -- one year = 10 Billion dollars. You know what is the cost of Rafale in the ongoing Brazil competition -- Its almost 8-10 Billion dollars for 36 aircrafts -- You know how much it will cost for 120 planes ? :)...You know much life cycle costs does Rafale have ? Further if Rafale has to undergo any future upgrades you know how much it will cost considering that Frenchies are notoriously pricy !!

And further we are talking only about Air force papa ji -- now lets see what other things are involved -- i forgot about Army and Navy --
Hmm now lets see what Army whats -- Howitzers , FMBT's , Missiles , SAM's , Gun's -- Now lets see what Navy wants -- Aircraft carriers -- now the thing about aircraft carriers is , they need to have planes on them for which Navy has issued RFI -- Then there are submarines , frigates, destroyers , etc...what happens if India is hit economically ...Holy lord , where is the 100 Billion dollars , i am falling short !!

Showing a link of purchase power parity is no big deal -- every Jack knows that India is growing and some cash to spare -- but then there is always a budget and money associated it. Even for the richest person on the earth there will be some things which he simply cant afford to buy !
 
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Supermanji---saw the post quite late...Quite humorous post actually ..now lets see what you wrote !

Sorry for delay Buddy, was out of town.

But I m not superman..........i m SupermanKaPapa.

Care to explain the bold part ?

The fact that PAF has this plane is the only thing that is going against them otherwise there is no other better option in terms of maintenance, service length , potency and Life cycle costs (read affordability)

Sure brother...............here it is.


The Indian Express, 2 April 2005
Do F-16s have an edge over French Mirages? (SHIV AROOR)
NEW DELHI, APRIL 1: Does the American F-16 fighter have a better safety track record than the French Mirage-2000? The Indian Air Force certainly doesn't think so. In a presentation on military flight safety this morning, a senior IAF officer displayed data which indicated that the Mirage-2000H fighters operated by the IAF were the least prone to crashes by human error compared to Mirage-2000s in other countries and US Air Force F-16 jets. The Mirage-2000 and F-16 are among four fighters that will bid for a 126 aircraft tender later this year. A lower frequency of crashes due to human error would broadly, though not always, indicate a fighter that is simpler to operate in the air.

More detailed..........


The Daily Times, 5 April 2005.
IAF says it's not interested in US F-16s or F-18s
NEW DELHI: The Indian Air Force (IAF) is not interested in American F-16 or F-18 aircraft as they are prone to human error-related accidents, said sources citing Air Marshal PS Ahluwalia. Sources said that Ahluwalia, director general of Inspection and Air Safety, gave a presentation to the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS), where heshowed that human error-related accidents in the F-16s had occurred more frequently than in Mirage 2000s. It was this presentation that clinched the committee's decision to clear purchase of 12 Mirage-2000-Vs. The committee was also told that the IAF was finding difficulties in managing the 20 different types of aircraft and would not like to add new makes of aircraft that would complicate the inventory further . However, Ahluwalia also said the IAF would not like to depend on a single supplier. "It may not be prudent to put all our eggs in one basket,but it would reduce the efforts in terms of maintenance practices by opting for a familiar supplier," said the air marshal hinting that not only the US firm Lockheed Martin's F-16s and F-18s are not in the reckoning but even Sweden's SAAB would not be able to sell its Gripen to India.


Papaji,

Really ! You think so !! P8I's , gun locating radars , towed howitzers (under negotiation) , 130J and maybe C17 --

Its not so much as a case of SAM being a reliable or not -- its a case of what uncle SAM can offer us in exchange of this deal. A seat at UN security council and this deal will pretty much go to F18.

It is a case of Uncle Sam's reliability too............u are in :pdf: Ask anyone here about Sam's reliability. Ever heard about "Army, Allah and America?"

Sam is not a reliable partner........yes it is for European Countries; but they are Grandpas and Great-Grandpas of uncle Sam; same family. But not for Asian or African countries. For them, uncle Sam's moto is: Use and Throw. Few examples are: Pakistan, Iran, Saddam Hussein, etc.

USA will never provide complete technology transfer or source codes for their aircrafts. And India already know that.

I strongly believe all the interest India had shown through the RFI for F-16s was nothing but to trick and mislead in order to stop the sale of these aircrafts to Pakistan.


Gripen being inferior -- please superman ji dont leave us with one liners -- explain your thoughts on why you think its inferior !!

Already explained in preivous post; plz help urself. In short, Almost LCA........Now plz don't say that Gripen is Superior than LCA; I know it is. But only due to its Avionics and Components. Not due to frae, size, or any other physical measures. And these superior things can be added into the plane of same size, i.e., LCA, in future. Like they are added in Gripen many years later; today's Gripen is not what it was when it developed. It got many new and better things; and that can happen to LCA too.

Gripen is very potent plane; no doubt, for smaller countries. But for the role, which MMRCA has to play, it is not suitable, inferior than other contenders.


You really have no idea ..do you?

No; I have no Idea, I gotta Vodafone.


.......you think just because India is planning to spend some dollars it will be able to afford and absorb any fighter aircraft ? You dont have any idea what a budget means right ? You do know what life cycle costs mean right !!

SOME = 10+2 BILLION.............:hitwall: You must be a very rich man; but for me, this amount is not SOME.

Budget and Life Cycle Costs........hummm, good point. I don't know much (as you already pointed out), but let me try...

In the defence industry, cost includes:
Per Unit Cost and Life-Cycle Operating and Support Cost. The thumb rule is that the Life-Cycle Operating and Support Cost is usually between 3.5 to 4 time of the cost of each unit.

Now plz tell me with the Per Unit Cost given below; which Fighter fits in this criteria.

Aircraft: Per Unit Cost
Rafale: ~US$67.2 million or €48 million
Eurofighter Typhoon: ~US$91.2 million or €63 million
F-16IN Fighting Falcon: US$50 million
F/A-18E/F Super Hornet: US$58 million
JAS 39 NG: US$48 million
MiG-35 Fulcrum-F: US$38.5 million


If India decides to buy and induct the cheapest one out of these, i.e. MiG-35 Fulcrum-F, the total cost will be:

126 units X $38.5 Million = $4.851 Billion
Life-Cycle Operating and Support Cost at 3 1/2 times = $16.9785 Billion

Total costs for MiG-35 Fulcrum-F, i.e., Per Piece cost plus Life Cycle Cost, is approximately $21.8295 Billion. (Please excuse and notify me if thr is any miscalculation.)

That means INDIA can't AFFORD even 126 Mig-35. :what: And if India want to induct Mig-35, then they need to cut the number to half (63). And lesser in case any other fighter is chosen.

I believe the "Budget and Life Cycle Costs" points are not calculated by Indian MoD, FM, and IAF correctly.

Jokes apart, do you really think that Life-Cycle Operating and Support Cost can be managed in 10+2 Billion............if so, for which fighter?


Now lets see your news article ---
100 billion over one decade -- one year = 10 Billion dollars. You know what is the cost of Rafale in the ongoing Brazil competition -- Its almost 8-10 Billion dollars for 36 aircrafts -- You know how much it will cost for 120 planes ? :)...You know much life cycle costs does Rafale have ? Further if Rafale has to undergo any future upgrades you know how much it will cost considering that Frenchies are notoriously pricy !!

OMG..........Thats news for me. BUT plz tell me one thing, ARE Indian MoD and IAF are MAD. Why they sent RFI for Rafale and even Eurofighter Typhoon in this case. I believe this is also news for them. I think THEY HAVE NO IDEA TOO; they got BSNL.


And further we are talking only about Air force papa ji -- now lets see what other things are involved -- i forgot about Army and Navy --
Hmm now lets see what Army whats -- Howitzers , FMBT's , Missiles , SAM's , Gun's -- Now lets see what Navy wants -- Aircraft carriers -- now the thing about aircraft carriers is , they need to have planes on them for which Navy has issued RFI -- Then there are submarines , frigates, destroyers , etc...what happens if India is hit economically...Holy lord , where is the 100 Billion dollars , i am falling short!!

what happens if India is hit economically.......................I HAVE NO IDEA. BUT can you tell me plz...."what happen if the earth stop spinning?"


Holy lord , where is the 100 Billion dollars , i am falling short!!..................MY HOLY LORD; with $100 Billion u are still short!!! Plz rest assured, more money will be available, if there is a need.


Showing a link of purchase power parity is no big deal -- every Jack knows that India is growing and some cash to spare

again SOME...........U gotta very-very big scale.

but then there is always a budget and money associated it.

you still doubt about the budget and Money associated............what to say now; I quit.

Cheers!!!

My Wish (still):

1. Rafale
2. Eurofighter Typhoon.
3. F/A-18E/F Super Hornet
 
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