Supermanji---saw the post quite late...Quite humorous post actually ..now lets see what you wrote !
Sorry for delay Buddy, was out of town.
But I m not superman..........i m SupermanKaPapa.
Care to explain the bold part ?
The fact that PAF has this plane is the only thing that is going against them otherwise there is no other better option in terms of maintenance, service length , potency and Life cycle costs (read affordability)
Sure brother...............here it is.
The Indian Express, 2 April 2005
Do F-16s have an edge over French Mirages? (SHIV AROOR)
NEW DELHI, APRIL 1: Does the American F-16 fighter have a better safety track record than the French Mirage-2000? The Indian Air Force certainly doesn't think so. In a presentation on military flight safety this morning, a senior IAF officer displayed data which indicated that the Mirage-2000H fighters operated by the IAF were the least prone to crashes by human error compared to Mirage-2000s in other countries and US Air Force F-16 jets. The Mirage-2000 and F-16 are among four fighters that will bid for a 126 aircraft tender later this year. A lower frequency of crashes due to human error would broadly, though not always, indicate a fighter that is simpler to operate in the air.
More detailed..........
The Daily Times, 5 April 2005.
IAF says it's not interested in US F-16s or F-18s
NEW DELHI: The Indian Air Force (IAF) is not interested in American F-16 or F-18 aircraft as they are prone to human error-related accidents, said sources citing Air Marshal PS Ahluwalia. Sources said that Ahluwalia, director general of Inspection and Air Safety, gave a presentation to the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS), where heshowed that human error-related accidents in the F-16s had occurred more frequently than in Mirage 2000s. It was this presentation that clinched the committee's decision to clear purchase of 12 Mirage-2000-Vs. The committee was also told that the IAF was finding difficulties in managing the 20 different types of aircraft and would not like to add new makes of aircraft that would complicate the inventory further . However, Ahluwalia also said the IAF would not like to depend on a single supplier. "It may not be prudent to put all our eggs in one basket,but it would reduce the efforts in terms of maintenance practices by opting for a familiar supplier," said the air marshal hinting that not only the US firm Lockheed Martin's F-16s and F-18s are not in the reckoning but even Sweden's SAAB would not be able to sell its Gripen to India.
Papaji,
Really ! You think so !! P8I's , gun locating radars , towed howitzers (under negotiation) , 130J and maybe C17 --
Its not so much as a case of SAM being a reliable or not -- its a case of what uncle SAM can offer us in exchange of this deal. A seat at UN security council and this deal will pretty much go to F18.
It is a case of Uncle Sam's reliability too............u are in
Ask anyone here about Sam's reliability. Ever heard about "Army, Allah and America?"
Sam is not a reliable partner........yes it is for European Countries; but they are Grandpas and Great-Grandpas of uncle Sam; same family. But not for Asian or African countries. For them, uncle Sam's moto is: Use and Throw. Few examples are: Pakistan, Iran, Saddam Hussein, etc.
USA will never provide complete technology transfer or source codes for their aircrafts. And India already know that.
I strongly believe all the interest India had shown through the RFI for F-16s was nothing but to trick and mislead in order to stop the sale of these aircrafts to Pakistan.
Gripen being inferior -- please superman ji dont leave us with one liners -- explain your thoughts on why you think its inferior !!
Already explained in preivous post; plz help urself. In short, Almost LCA........Now plz don't say that Gripen is Superior than LCA; I know it is. But only due to its Avionics and Components. Not due to frae, size, or any other physical measures. And these superior things can be added into the plane of same size, i.e., LCA, in future. Like they are added in Gripen many years later; today's Gripen is not what it was when it developed. It got many new and better things; and that can happen to LCA too.
Gripen is very potent plane; no doubt, for smaller countries. But for the role, which MMRCA has to play, it is not suitable, inferior than other contenders.
You really have no idea ..do you?
No; I have no Idea, I gotta Vodafone.
.......you think just because India is planning to spend some dollars it will be able to afford and absorb any fighter aircraft ? You dont have any idea what a budget means right ? You do know what life cycle costs mean right !!
SOME = 10+2 BILLION.............
You must be a very rich man; but for me, this amount is not
SOME.
Budget and Life Cycle Costs........hummm, good point. I don't know much (as you already pointed out), but let me try...
In the defence industry, cost includes:
Per Unit Cost and Life-Cycle Operating and Support Cost. The thumb rule is that the Life-Cycle Operating and Support Cost is usually between 3.5 to 4 time of the cost of each unit.
Now plz tell me with the Per Unit Cost given below; which Fighter fits in this criteria.
Aircraft: Per Unit Cost
Rafale: ~US$67.2 million or €48 million
Eurofighter Typhoon: ~US$91.2 million or €63 million
F-16IN Fighting Falcon: US$50 million
F/A-18E/F Super Hornet: US$58 million
JAS 39 NG: US$48 million
MiG-35 Fulcrum-F: US$38.5 million
If India decides to buy and induct the cheapest one out of these, i.e. MiG-35 Fulcrum-F, the total cost will be:
126 units X $38.5 Million = $4.851 Billion
Life-Cycle Operating and Support Cost at 3 1/2 times = $16.9785 Billion
Total costs for MiG-35 Fulcrum-F, i.e., Per Piece cost plus Life Cycle Cost, is approximately $21.8295 Billion.
(Please excuse and notify me if thr is any miscalculation.)
That means INDIA can't AFFORD even 126 Mig-35.
And if India want to induct Mig-35, then they need to cut the number to half (63). And lesser in case any other fighter is chosen.
I believe the "Budget and Life Cycle Costs" points are not calculated by Indian MoD, FM, and IAF correctly.
Jokes apart, do you really think that Life-Cycle Operating and Support Cost can be managed in 10+2 Billion............if so, for which fighter?
Now lets see your news article ---
100 billion over one decade -- one year = 10 Billion dollars.
You know what is the cost of Rafale in the ongoing Brazil competition -- Its almost 8-10 Billion dollars for 36 aircrafts -- You know how much it will cost for 120 planes ?
...You know much life cycle costs does Rafale have ? Further if Rafale has to undergo any future upgrades you know how much it will cost considering that Frenchies are notoriously pricy !!
OMG..........Thats news for me. BUT plz tell me one thing, ARE Indian MoD and IAF are MAD. Why they sent RFI for Rafale and even Eurofighter Typhoon in this case. I believe this is also news for them. I think THEY HAVE NO IDEA TOO; they got BSNL.
And further we are talking only about Air force papa ji -- now lets see what other things are involved -- i forgot about Army and Navy --
Hmm now lets see what Army whats -- Howitzers , FMBT's , Missiles , SAM's , Gun's -- Now lets see what Navy wants -- Aircraft carriers -- now the thing about aircraft carriers is , they need to have planes on them for which Navy has issued RFI -- Then there are submarines , frigates, destroyers , etc...what happens if India is hit economically...Holy lord , where is the 100 Billion dollars , i am falling short!!
what happens if India is hit economically.......................I HAVE NO IDEA. BUT can you tell me plz...."what happen if the earth stop spinning?"
Holy lord , where is the 100 Billion dollars , i am falling short!!..................MY HOLY LORD; with $100 Billion u are still short!!! Plz rest assured, more money will be available, if there is a need.
Showing a link of purchase power parity is no big deal -- every Jack knows that India is growing and some cash to spare
again
SOME...........U gotta very-very big scale.
but then there is always a budget and money associated it.
you still doubt about the budget and Money associated............what to say now; I quit.
Cheers!!!
My Wish (still):
1. Rafale
2. Eurofighter Typhoon.
3. F/A-18E/F Super Hornet