EADS Eurofighter in the MRCA competition Thread

[Parashuram1]

Hello switzi!!

Tell us which one is your fav, will prompt to MoD. just kidding!

LOL.. Thanks buddy. I meant it the other way. We are a small country with limited defense budget and therefore big-shot deals like yours is bound to have a slight effect on even our choice. As you know, Switzerland is mountainous and we need fighters that don't just flatten out in bitter cold and yet have next-gen capabilities.

My personal choice would be the new Gripen since it is single engine and very versatile, but I am thinking that you would be more interested in twin-engined fighters capable to carry more ordinance with greater combat radius as that of Gripens.

 

[Dash]

Absolutely correct mate!!.
by the way Do you have any idea how many fighters you will need?

 

[sancho]

Absolutely correct mate!!.
by the way Do you have any idea how many fighters you will need?

The Swiss competition is for 22 fighters if I'm not wrong, but it is not comparable with the Indian. Switzerland has no enemy that poses a threat for the country and it is doubtful that these fighters will ever see a war even through NATO operations. The only role they have to serve is air policeing, so the requirement to special capabilities is more than low unlike to the MMRCA competition.
It would be more than surprising if they would chose anything else than the cost-effective Gripen NG!

 

[Parashuram1]

@Dash:

Absolutely correct mate!!. by the way Do you have any idea how many fighters you will need?

We currently are looking for 22 fighters as Sancho answered your question. Right now we have 33 F/A-18s and 54 F-5 Tiger IIs that are required to be replaced soon. Our Hornets just received an upgrade in 2004 and will last a little more longer than the Tigers.

@Sancho:

The Swiss competition is for 22 fighters if I'm not wrong, but it is not comparable with the Indian. Switzerland has no enemy that poses a threat for the country and it is doubtful that these fighters will ever see a war even through NATO operations. The only role they have to serve is air policeing, so the requirement to special capabilities is more than low unlike to the MMRCA competition.
It would be more than surprising if they would chose anything else than the cost-effective Gripen NG!

You are spot on. We need the fighters more to ensure that the peace we have had remains so and is more of a national defense image than actual war. And we can certainly afford 22 aircraft. The reason why SAF's future remains in a hang is because of left-wing liberal parties in our parliament demanding an abolition of the entire Swiss Armed Forces altogether---something that I strongly disagree. Actually having no threats is something we pride ourselves in. This is partially achieved because we have countries of similar culture and lifestyle all around us and our reputed neutrality in any conflict or dispute.


You are wrong about NATO. We are not a part of any military alliance that operates on a global doctrine and our forces' job is strictly limited to our country. There is a reason why we are called "the most neutral country in the world".


I myself have engaged many (Army) mock combat training games and even though we are small, we are not weak (it is mandatory for citizens here to serve as conscripts after 18 years of age).

 

[sancho]

The reason why SAF's future remains in a hang is because of left-wing liberal parties in our parliament demanding an abolition of the entire Swiss Armed Forces altogether---something that I strongly disagree. Actually having no threats is something we pride ourselves in. This is partially achieved because we have countries of similar culture and lifestyle all around us and our reputed neutrality in any conflict or dispute.


You are wrong about NATO. We are not a part of any military alliance that operates on a global doctrine and our forces' job is strictly limited to our country. There is a reason why we are called "the most neutral country in the world".

That's what I ment! These fighters will never see war, not even through alliances, because Swiss will always remain neutral.
But to be honest, that's exactly the reason why I also don't see a need for new fighters! When there is no threat, you will not go for war in any case and you have big airforces like the German, or French around you, that could take over the air policing role in case of hijacked aircrafts, why waste that much money on latest fighters?
Even if there would be a need to replace the F5s, why didn't the SAF not simply lease older Gripen from Sweden, like the Czech and the Hungarian Air Force did? That would be the way more cost-effective solution and these are more than capable enough for SAF requirements.

However, maybe we can discuss it via PM to keep the thread on topic!

 

[Super Falcon]

india will pick american fighter jet im sure

 

[jha]

an advantage with SH is that india might get some growlers with them..

 

[Kinshuk]

Eurofighter in India: A Time To Shine

08:16 GMT, February 17, 2010 MMRCA (Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft) testing begins this month for Eurofighter Typhoon in India as speculation rises as to who may win the new fighter jet deal to supply the Indian Air Force with 126 aircraft.

The Hot and High trails which kicked off last year with Boeings F/A-18 are taking place in Bangalore, over Jaisalmer in the Rajasthan desert under hot weather conditions and in the Leh area of Ladakh – Ladakh meaning "land of high passes" for high altitude testings. After having to wait patiently for our turn, finally February sees Eurofighter Typhoon in the hot seat, with the opportunity to put our highly advanced and robust capabilities to the test.

The trials will be heavily supported by the German Air Force, who will provide both the aircraft and appropriate air and ground crews. Two aircraft set off from Rostock/Laage on Monday destined for Bangalore. Eurofighter is excited to be participating in the trials and with a proven hot weather customer, Saudi Arabia, already in service, now is as good a time as any to shine under the Indian sun.


defence.professionals | defpro.com

 

[Parashuram1]

india will pick american fighter jet im sure

You don't want to bet your money on that, buddy. In the past also there have been enormous deals between United States and the Indians and they have balanced both Moscow and Washington pretty well. Even now their foreign policy of defense is really smart I got to admire it. For instance, while most of the logistics and transport division alongside AWACS and other systems are being replaced with American systems, the fighter division which is considered the backbone of any aerial defense sternly remains Russian and non-American. A very smart way of balancing both countries.

I still feel that judging by the multirole demands of the Indian Air Force, Typhoon Tranche 3 with enhanced A2G roles will be the winner or even Rafale can be the underdog. I cannot say this deal would end up with the Bear because it would make IAF the second Russian air force on earth at least for this decade, making them over-dependent on a single source.

I am sure that MMRCA is going the European way or French way. Germany has excellent ties with India and New Delhi has a fierce admiration of German technology. Tranche 3 Typhoon will be the preferred fighter by Indian Air Force.

Due to the rather strange and unique foreign policy of Indians, even they know what a potential sanction on their massive fleet would do to their defense capabilities. When we all condemned their nuclear tests, they have carefully noticed the delay that cost their indigenous fighter development precious 5 years.

They wouldn't want to make the same mistake again if they are smart.

 

[sancho]

You don't want to bet your money on that, buddy. In the past also there have been enormous deals between United States and the Indians and they have balanced both Moscow and Washington pretty well. Even now their foreign policy of defense is really smart I got to admire it. For instance, while most of the logistics and transport division alongside AWACS and other systems are being replaced with American systems, the fighter division which is considered the backbone of any aerial defense sternly remains Russian and non-American. A very smart way of balancing both countries.

I agree with that, till now we can see that IAF is replacing aircrafts in smaller numbers with US alternatives (Russian MPAs with P8I, Mi26, Mi 35 replacements will most likely go to CH47 and AH64), although they are more expensive, they are often also more capable.
But the backbone will remain Russian mainly, because they are more reliable and offer more in terms of customizations.

I still feel that judging by the multirole demands of the Indian Air Force, Typhoon Tranche 3 with enhanced A2G roles will be the winner

If IAF could wait for 2015, or longer till all capabilities of T3 will be ready EF could win, but as we know only T3A will be ready till MMRCA should arrive in India, it is doubtful that the EF will offer enought to make it worth the highest costs.

 

[Parashuram1]

If IAF could wait for 2015, or longer till all capabilities of T3 will be ready EF could win, but as we know only T3A will be ready till MMRCA should arrive in India, it is doubtful that the EF will offer enought to make it worth the highest costs.

Since EADS has entered only after confirming the contest requirements I am sure that Bernhard Gerwert would have made sure that Germans specifically don't lose this opportunity to step into Indian defense circles. I know that there might be a possibility of slow induction in your air force, but if that is the case, perhaps EADS might want to start the Tranche 3 production in your country directly for meeting the deadline for induction because from what I have heard, a purchase as big as your nation's and the offer that has been made by the Eurofighter consortium, India is likely to be the official 5th partner with a say in manufacturing.

So in a way Indians will likely gain a lot from the Typhoon but as a cutting-edge fighter as well as experience in advanced European technologies. I must though forewarn you that European systems are expensive because of the high costs that are involved here, a disability of our continent that puts the Chinese as well as your country on our radar as the destination of high-end and low cost manufacturing.

 

[Dawkins]

Has this been mentioned earlier :

After the flight trials are over, IAF sources tell Business Standard, the competition will narrow to three or four contenders; two fighters, they say, have already performed below par. Then, the commercial bids will be opened; Ministry of Defence (MoD) procedure mandates that the lowest bidder wins the contract.

Which two performed below par among Rafale, Super Hornet, Viper & Mig-35 Hopefully its F16 & Mig-35


Eurofighter's mission in India: Rediff.com News

 

[Kinshuk]

Has this been mentioned earlier :

After the flight trials are over, IAF sources tell Business Standard, the competition will narrow to three or four contenders; two fighters, they say, have already performed below par. Then, the commercial bids will be opened; Ministry of Defence (MoD) procedure mandates that the lowest bidder wins the contract.

Which two performed below par among Rafale, Super Hornet, Viper & Mig-35 Hopefully its F16 & Mig-35


Eurofighter's mission in India: Rediff.com News

No Mig 35 puleezzz, two of them crashed in this week.. It has no chances... If it wins I will commit sucide.

 

[sancho]

Since EADS has entered only after confirming the contest requirements I am sure that Bernhard Gerwert would have made sure that Germans specifically don't lose this opportunity to step into Indian defense circles. I know that there might be a possibility of slow induction in your air force, but if that is the case, perhaps EADS might want to start the Tranche 3 production in your country directly for meeting the deadline for induction because from what I have heard, a purchase as big as your nation's and the offer that has been made by the Eurofighter consortium, India is likely to be the official 5th partner with a say in manufacturing.

So in a way Indians will likely gain a lot from the Typhoon but as a cutting-edge fighter as well as experience in advanced European technologies. I must though forewarn you that European systems are expensive because of the high costs that are involved here, a disability of our continent that puts the Chinese as well as your country on our radar as the destination of high-end and low cost manufacturing.

As I meantioned earlier, on paper the EF offer looks great and no doubt that EADS confirms anything to win this deal. The problem is, without a final agreement of the member countries and the funding for further developments and integration of techs and weapons, their promises are worth nothing!
India will only be a minor partner for manufacturing, all main parts of the airframe and main techs will be produced by the actual member countries and only some avionics might outsourced to India. Of course that will help us too, but we won't have any say in the in the project, so it's not really a big deal.

 

[Dash]

If we look at Bernhard Gerwert said, he said India has a great oppertunity to become their industrial partner "However, it cannot be that we say “Okay. India could become a fifth partner and then we divide everything through five instead of four.” Of course this is not possible, let us be clear among ourselves. This is what he said.

So looking at this scenario, i dont think in near future its possible for India to have a say in EFT business, some tech India will get and also will get benified but a "Partner", not gonna happen.