EADS Eurofighter in the MRCA competition Thread

[sancho]

J-10 provides a smaller target area, is faster and has a greater range..................However the Eurofighter takes the cake when it comes to max take off weight, service ceiling and the sheer number of missiles and bombs it can carry(hard points) aka brute strength, as for the J-10B being inferior, i would call you daft if you spent 63 million euros per unit on a plane that couldn't outperform an aeroplane half it's price....................
But in the end, it pretty much boils down to the man in the cockpit.

Its smaller in size, which is nothing surprising, but it would be interesting to know what the RCS of J10 would be? I doubt that it can match the EF and btw, your specs say it don't has more range than the EF:

J10 - Maximum range (without refueling): 3,400 km
EF - Ferry range: 3,790 km

The price don't say anything about the performance of the fighter, so that is not an argument. Imo J10B could be very close to F16IN, Mig 35 and Gripen NG, although less expensive, the EF would clearly be great in A2A, but IAF already has the MKI with similar performance and will get the more superior FGFA to counter J10 and J11 versions.

P.S, these are specs of J-10A, the Pakistani version will incorporate western electronic systems and most probably compatibility with american missiles(so i have heard).

No chance that a Chinese fighter will get US weapons, otherwise PAF would already go this way with JF and not for only 36 J10. And last time I checked the J10 thread it was reported, that PAF won't order J10 untill it is operational in PLAAF, that all is too speculative at the moment, don't you think?

 

[KEETARP]

Cmon dont derail thread and start comparing J10,J17,J7 with MRCA tenders.
Be realistic, F16 block 60 is the most advanced single engine jet flying rt now there should be no doubt (F35 still not inducted).
Just look at the components and weapons used(sniper+lantrin pods+EW suite+cfts+BVR missiles and list is evolving everyday ), i doubt even russians or french can match them in pace of devlopment . everyone is doing catching up job with their radar,avionics,engine .
Even gripen ng is under testing .Forget LCA/JF17
How can people as knowledgeable as some of them are here - can compare f16,Rafale,EUrobird with j10.
J10 is still evolving , may be some years down the line given the advancement china has made it might be able to take on f16 block 60/70.
Tell me how many countries have devloped running AESA technology-most of them are under testing.[zhuk/rbe2/elta/mmr/captor]
And US did it 8 years back.
J10 for me at this stage components wise can only match mirage2005-9 (very advanced mirage- has best french avionics, radar,Ew suite derived from Rafale)
No offence to chinese out there , i have great respect for them and their country for what they have acheived but i doubt they can match US in technology wise presently.Their best weapon is still Russian & are waiting for european arms embargo to go so that they get even higher tech.

Onto thread now plz

 

[KEETARP]

MRCA THREAD

Superior avionics and radar on western jets have no match.
Eurofighter is supreme of them in a2a mode- the situational awareness of pilot flying these jets will be way ahead .Give it meteor and its roar will be heard to every corner
These machines were build with BVR in mind and were given descent defence suit rt from start SPECTRA+PIRATE+cant remember of f18 growlers name ..........help plz.
Considering multirole req of IAF - i doubt it will be eurobird until engine politics plays it part as i said previously.
But deals in india dosen't always means best wins.
All of the jets on offer are class apart but looking at req alone (leave engine+lca+mca+strategic gain) best is either f16/gripen , they are affordable and numbers inducted finally will be 126+ ingiven budget.

 

[Dash]

Interesting little comparison between J-10B and EF-2000:
(I am waiting for the approval of a picture in which both the planes have been drawn to scale against each other, will post it as soon as it is approved)
Advantage over the other aircraft is written in red.

Chengdu J-10:
General characteristics
Crew: 1 (basic), 2 (trainer variant)
Length: 15.5 m (50 ft 10 in)
Wingspan: 9.7 m (31 ft 10 in)
Height: 4.78 m (15.7 ft)
Wing area: 39 m² (419.8 ft&#178
Empty weight: 8,000–9,730 kg (17,637–21,451 lb)
Loaded weight: 18,500 kg (40,785 lb)
Useful load: 4,500 kg (9,920 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 19,277 kg (42,500 lb)
Powerplant: 1× Saturn-Lyulka AL-31FN turbofan
Dry thrust: 79.43 kN / 89.17 kN (17,860 lbf / 20,050 lbf)
Thrust with afterburner: 122.5 kN / 129.4 kN (27,557 lbf / 29,101 lbf)
Performance
Maximum speed: Mach 2.2 at altitude, Mach 1.2 at sea level
g-limits: +9/-3 g (+88/-29 m/s², +290/-97 ft/s&#178(EF-2000 g-limit not given)
Combat radius:
On hi-lo-hi mission: 2,540 km (1,370 nautical miles) with 4,000lb/1,814kg bombload and two air-to-air missiles
On lo-lo-lo mission: 1,310 km (710 nautical miles with 4,000lb/1,814kg bombload and two air-to-air missiles
Maximum range (without refueling): 3,400 km (2,113 miles)
Service ceiling: 18,000 m (59,055 ft)
Wing loading: 335 kg/m² (64 lb/ft&#178
Armament
Guns: 1× 23mm twin-barrel cannon(Greater rate of fire)
Hardpoints: 11 in total (6× under-wing, 5× under-fuselage) with a capacity of 6,000 kg (13,228 lb) external fuel and ordnance


Eurofighter EF-2000:
General characteristics:
Crew: 1 (operational aircraft) or 2 (training aircraft)
Length: 15.96 m (52 ft 5 in)
Wingspan: 10.95 m (35 ft 11 in)
Height: 5.28 m (17 ft 4 in)
Wing area: 50 m² (538 ft&#178
Empty weight: 11,000 kg (24,250 lb)
Loaded weight: 15,550 kg[citation needed] (34,280 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 23,500 kg (51,800 lb)
Powerplant: 2× Eurojet EJ200 afterburning turbofan
Dry thrust: 60 kN (13,500 lbf) each
Thrust with afterburner: 90 kN (20,250 lbf) each
Performance
Maximum speed:
At altitude: Mach 2+ (2,495 km/h, 1,550 mph)
At sea level: Mach 1.2[180] (1470 km/h / 913.2 mph)
Supercruise: Mach 1.1[176]-1.5
Range: 2,900 km (1,840 mi)
Combat radius:
Ground attack, lo-lo-lo: 601 km (373 nmi)
Ground attack, hi-lo-hi: 1,389 km (863 nmi)
Air defence with 3-hr CAP: 185 km (115 nmi)
Air defence with 10-min loiter: 1,389 km (863 nmi)
Ferry range: 3,790 km (2,300 mi)
Service ceiling: 19,810 m (65,000 ft)
Rate of climb: >315 m/s (62,000 ft/min)
Wing loading: 307 kg/m² (63 lb/ft&#178
Armament
Guns: 1× 27 mm Mauser BK-27 cannon with 150 rounds(Larger round)
Hardpoints: Total of 13: 8× under-wing plus 5× under-fuselage pylon stations holding up to 16,500 lb (7,500 kg) of payload

This not a comparision at all.
Its no spec to spec comparision...
Whatever specs you have given for comparision for J10 and EFT are of different aspects..
Any way, lets continue the discussion, it was going good

@ sancho Sir -
J10 is in no way comparable with EFT Tranche 1. tranche 3 is way ahead is I belive.

 

[Kinshuk]

Please do not compare any other AC unless required for the discussion. Specially, J 10 JF 17 as that makes it a vs thread everywhere.

 

[DMLA]

Some of the specs are not correctly compared. Just to give an example, the dry thrust for Typhoon considers only a single engine !

IMO, the true test will only be when the two aircrafts come face to face. In modern combat, other "multiplier" assets like networks, AWACS, avionics, weapons etc play a very important role and thus a platform should be considered in its entirity (inclusive of all support systems)!

 

[Icarus]

These were all the available specs i could find for both aircrafts, some specs are classified for both aircraft, such as the g-limit for EF-2000 so that is why i couldn't compare spec to spec, as for the dry thrust being taken for one engine, that is what you do when you compare the engines of an aircraft, if you notice above, i have already highlighted the advantage of eurofighter in the number of engines., but the power of the engine is always compared one on one.

 

[Machoman]

News released from India today announced the arrival of the two German Eurofighter Typhoons who are in Bangalore to take part in the Indian MMRCA flight trials.

The press release from EADS Defence and Security states that “Experienced test pilots of the Indian Air Force will examine the Eurofighter Typhoon’s flight performance under specifically Indian conditions”. The pilots have already been through rigorous training in Germany beforehand in preparation for these flights.

As mentioned in our blog two days ago, the hot and high trials will test the aircraft under both desert and high altitude conditions in the Jaisalmer and Leh regions. Following the trials inIndia , the team will then move to Europe to evaluate the weapons systems and advanced sensors. “Exercises will include dropping precision guided munitions and launching air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles”.

The trials officially begin on the 22nd February and will move on to Europe in April. As ever, more details will follow when we have them.

 

[Machoman]

If India goes for Eurofighter then we should go for Grippen. what do you guys think?

 

[DMLA]

I feel the Gripen is a great aircraft and PAF would do wonders with it if they get the opportunity. However, I am not sure if Gripen is on PAF's radar screen with so many thunders and FC-20's being talked about (as i have been seeing in the PAF thread!).

 

[Machoman]

We will get it as soon as India gets his.

 

[jha]

BTW what you guys think of the possibility of roping in SAAB for our own NGFA..

 

[DMLA]

They seem to be moving towards UCAV's at this point (read neuron). Moreover, I don't see any major advantage we may have with such a tie up! Our biggest challenge with the LCA had been the powerplant! IMO, NGFA should be a home-grown solution in order to develop technologies in india!

 

[desiman]

We will get it as soon as India gets his.

The Griphen is not a chocolate that you buy from the market, just because India gets something does not mean the same applies to Pakistan. The PAF is much better off with the JF-17 and potentially the J-10. Not only is the Griphen expensive to buy but also expensive to maintain, something that the PAF cannot afford right now.

 

[Luftwaffe]

relax let india choose there is always a counter action..