Dubai Air Show: IAF's Tejas stuns audience with superior flying skills

[Farhan Bohra]

yep, that's what you get with a laggy government full of bureaucratic crap

it's being done away with slowly, honestly, we'd much rather complain about corporate overreach in government than babudom.. apun ko full military industrial complex mangta, tich and effecient

USA ke best friend ban raho ho slowly of the slowly, kuch seekho bhi na fir un se..

Modi Ji is on a mission to get it done, lets see what happens.

what Modi ji has to do with such programs?

mind it, the GoI was quite ready to sign FGFA, if Russians accepted the Indian avionics and involvement into the program. It was IAF who persistent in killing the FGFA and pursuing AMCA program.

Even the Su-30 MKI upgrade program got delayed because IAF demanded to integrate like DC-MAWS, LRDE developed AESA based ASPJ, GaN Uttam radar, Targo HMDS, Indian mission control computer etc. While Russian pushing their own avionics, which failed IAF requirements. That was the same case with FGFA, we never liked Ruski AESA radars (that was one of the sticking points).

And Russians are afraid if we allow Indians to get away with this, then why anyone comes to us for an upgrade package or buy jets directly from us, instead of demanding integrating these Indian avionics.

 

[Tornado23]

Samosa Vs. Chutney — why has India’s homegrown Tejas fighter caused a meltdown on Pakistani Twitter?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1460221207827996677

Because its a good piece of humour

 

[Farhan Bohra]

The Tejas performance regime is just like a mirages. Slow take off and turns, lots of energy lost in turns due to drag from the delta wing design. It can’t do more than a turn or two in succession. Poor for A2A roles.

However due to the composite construction and the delta wing giving plenty of wing strength and lift, the aircraft can likely carry more than something like the JF-17, making it better for A2G roles.

Lastly, it turns out the Indians have been lying about the thrust produced by Tejas’ engine, they’ve been saying it’s “90KN+” for decades, meanwhile GE confirmed recently that the thrust produced is exactly the same as the JF-17 thunder, 84KN. So no advantages there either. JF-17 remains more maneuverable but has less lift and payload.

You assuming A2A roles as it is 80s.

But I leave it that, it's more upto how airforces achieve their learning paths in network-centric 4th/4.5 gen aircafts. Furthur I don't know how ADA lying about anything, it was always clearly mentioned.

And as for weapon load, it doesnt matter, it matter that how many weapon to target matching combination exist in Mission Computer, and how many weapon combinations it can carry. Thats why a multi-role is not just about weapon load.

 

[iLION12345_1]

You assuming A2A roles as it is 80s.

But I leave it that, it's more upto how airforces achieve their learning paths in network-centric 4th/4.5 gen aircafts. Furthur I don't know how ADA lying about anything, it was always clearly mentioned.View attachment 793806


And as for weapon load, it doesnt matter, it matter that how many weapon to target matching combination exist in Mission Computer, and how many weapon combinations it can carry. Thats why a multi-role is not just about weapon load.

The figure that was presented by ADA (or HAL, can’t remember who) on their website (90KN) is directly contradicted by the figure presented by GE, the maker of the engine, according to whom the engine makes a peak thrust of 84Kn. Indians have been using that number as fact since.

I won’t respond to the rest as it’s the usual “But-but-but Tejas MK1 isn’t a real jet MK-1A will be”, I’ve been waiting for that MK-1A for nearly a decade now.

what Modi ji has to do with such programs?

mind it, the GoI was quite ready to sign FGFA, if Russians accepted the Indian avionics and involvement into the program. It was IAF who persistent in killing the FGFA and pursuing AMCA program.

Even the Su-30 MKI upgrade program got delayed because IAF demanded to integrate like DC-MAWS, LRDE developed AESA based ASPJ, GaN Uttam radar, Targo HMDS, Indian mission control computer etc. While Russian pushing their own avionics, which failed IAF requirements. That was the same case with FGFA, we never liked Ruski AESA radars (that was one of the sticking points).

And Russians are afraid if we allow Indians to get away with this, then why anyone comes to us for an upgrade package or buy jets directly from us, instead of demanding integrating these Indian avionics.

Yeah of course, Indian Avionics are at least 2 leagues above what the Russians make. Please never compare Uttam to a Russian radar, ever.

Are you seriously comparing a 4th gen jet with a true 4.5 gen jet? Does your friend didn't know that?

It is without ASPJ, MAWS, AESA radar, ELINT modes like NCTR, it is without datalink and CEC capability, obviously, avionics be behind. What's new in it? Everyone knows about it. That's why both squadrons are deployed in Sulur for training (LIFT) and tactics purposes.

While Mk1A squadrons decided to be deployed in Srinagar AFS, Halwara AFS, and Pathankot AFS.

So you admit the Tejas is a half baked jet then? Why accept it into service? Why was The Tejas being hailed as revolutionary before it entered service and now it’s being downplayed? The exact same was done for the MKi, presented as some gift from god and then thrown aside after 2019 and Rafales induction.
Nobody has called the Tejas an objectively bad aircraft here, some people have pointed out it’s strengths and some have pointed out it’s weaknesses, but as usual it’s being rejected by the Indian side.

FYI MK-1A isn’t getting MAWS either, nor is the first batch going to be equipped with Uttam.

 

[Farhan Bohra]

The figure presented by ADA was is directly contradicted by the figure presented by GE, the maker of the engine, according to whom the engine makes a peak thrust of 84Kn.
Furthermore this 90KN figure appeared in news media first and on the ADA brochure later, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was simply picked up at put here given how seriously such marketing is taken in the region. PAC puts JF-17s length at 7 feet and ADA misreports The Engines Thrust.
Suddenly the same engine making 74Kn of thrust in the Gripen is making 90Kn in the Tejas, see the issue?

I shared the document/brochure of Aero India, if someone wants to create his own figures, then no one else can do. If you don't know how to do maths, in this I can help
1 Kg = 0.0098 kN
8446 kg * 0.0098 = 82.77 kN

I won’t respond to the rest as it’s the usual “But-but-but Tejas MK1 isn’t a real jet MK-1A will be”, I’ve been waiting for that MK-1A for nearly a decade now.

I dont know if I asked?

Yeah of course, Indian Avionics are at least 2 leagues above what the Russians make. Please never compare Uttam to a Russian radar, ever.

I have never compared it. What are you talking about? As for ASQR requirements, yes Russian avionics don't fit into IAF demands. Firstly, IAF asked for ELM-2052, now after reviewing the data of Uttam, they asking that in Super Sukhoi upgrade.

But that is unlikely to happen. When Russians not even accepting DC-MAWS or LRDE wingtip ASPJ, how they accept this.

 

[Tejas Spokesman]

, it is without datalink and CEC capability,

Outdated knowledge.
Tejas along with all other IndAF fighter jets now have Global Link (with BNET SDR) which is the most advanced fighter jet datalink and communication suite ever built (excl. F-35, F-22).
It is far far ahead of any datalink or SDR with both enemies.

 

[Farhan Bohra]

So you admit the Tejas is a half baked jet then? Why accept it into service? Why was The Tejas being hailed as revolutionary before it entered service and now it’s being downplayed? The exact same was done for the MKi, presented as some gift from god and then thrown aside after 2019 and Rafales induction.
Nobody has called the Tejas an objectively bad aircraft here, some people have pointed out it’s strengths and some have pointed out it’s weaknesses, but as usual it’s being rejected by the Indian side.

FYI MK-1A isn’t getting MAWS either, nor is the first batch going to be equipped with Uttam.

What do you mean by half-baked jet? There are requirements, and that's what it is filling. And yes, it's a revolutionary jet, it created a private sector ecosystem, because of this system MWF, TEDBF, AMCA, and CATS programs becoming possible.

The PDR of MWF was completed in 2018, and within 3 years, it is realized. Seriously it's an amazing job for a developing country, where a lack of human resources and critical infrastructure, and private ecosystem is really a big issue.
I mean Tejas PDR happened in 88-89, and it took 7 years to roll out a Technology demonstrator. and further 6 years to fly. This time ADA is not going with the TD part.

FYI MK-1A isn’t getting MAWS either, nor is the first batch going to be equipped with Uttam.

Neither I am calling Mk1A a true 4.5 gen fighter. And neither it is required to be equipped with Uttam, and I don't think any Mk1A will get Uttam, only I think in MLU it will happen.

 

[iLION12345_1]

What do you mean by half-baked jet? There are requirements, and that's what it is filling. And yes, it's a revolutionary jet, it created a private sector ecosystem, because of this system MWF, TEDBF, AMCA, and CATS programs becoming possible.

The PDR of MWF was completed in 2018, and within 3 years, it is realized. Seriously it's an amazing job for a developing country, where a lack of human resources and critical infrastructure, and private ecosystem is really a big issue.
I mean Tejas PDR happened in 88-89, and it took 7 years to roll out a Technology demonstrator. and further 6 years to fly. This time ADA is not going with the TD part.


Neither I am calling Mk1A a true 4.5 gen fighter. And neither it is required to be equipped with Uttam, and I don't think any Mk1A will get Uttam, only I think in MLU it will happen.

I would refrain from calling the aircraft any sort of revolutionary, nor is it’s project anywhere near the timelines set out for it considering it started in 1971.

What I will give credit to is the fact that india tried and succeeded, the Tejas and the Uttam are but first steps, and no matter the timeline or the outcome, one has to commend the fact that they are firsts for india and that they can only improve from here, if they are able to build upon this success and do better, then surely there’s tons of potential to exploit in the country, and in that sense india is doing well, at the same time it’s also pretty unfortunate how small the Indian defense industry is given the size of the country and it’s defense spending.

What has been holding it back is the same thing we have in all of South Asia, rampant corruption, bribery and a bias against locally made equipment, something very often seen in the purchasing decisions of both india and Pakistans armed forces. So country affiliation aside, I do hope the Indian industry does break through this mess, it might even give a wake up call to the people on this side of the border to follow suit.

 

[Farhan Bohra]

Outdated knowledge.
Tejas along with all other IndAF fighter jets now have Global Link (with BNET SDR) which is the most advanced fighter jet datalink and communication suite ever built (excl. F-35, F-22).
It is far far ahead of any datalink or SDR with both enemies.

I dont know anything about Global Link,,, I only know about ODL... that also be SATCOM based datalink.

 

[Tejas Spokesman]

Global Link

Global Link is the ODL that IAF has opted for

 

[Farhan Bohra]

I would refrain from calling the aircraft any sort of revolutionary, nor is it’s project anywhere near the timelines set out for it considering it started in 1971.

That again a statement don't hold water, the PDR only happened in 1988,,, and until 1995, not even PSQR was released. I don't know how people expect ADA to develop a jet without PSQR. And ASQR was not even released till 2001.

This same as claiming, Mk1A is in development since 2014 or Tejas/MWF since 2009. As we all know Mk1A ASQR was only released in 2019, and Tejas Mk2 CDR was only completed a few months ago.

What has been holding it back is the same thing we have in all of South Asia, rampant corruption, bribery and a bias against locally made equipment, something very often seen in the purchasing decisions of both india and Pakistans armed forces. So country affiliation aside, I do hope the Indian industry does break through this mess, it might even give a wake up call to the people on this side of the border to follow suit.

I don't think its corruption,, since 2010 there are very few corruption cases that hold any water. It's more about fulfilling certain obligations,,

People need to think about, when Arrow-3 was on offer, and even when Israeli helped a lot in AESA radars, that's how Uttam developed. All the fabrication and software techs are from Isreal.
Even when the whole BMD network India planning is with Israeli tech, then why did Indian GoI buy S-400? And if one claiming S-400 is more superior than Arrow-3 in BMD roles, then he is an idiot.

What was the compulsion? And it's not corruption. But I leave it at that.

Global Link is the ODL that IAF has opted for

I'll use the IAF's vocabulary.

 

[Sage]

View attachment 793543

OOppppsss!!!!!!!!

Pls don't do the tejas (samosa) that bad. It ain't even out of hangers

Tipu made that patch ...

 

[GiantPanda]

What's stunning is Indians' sense of superiority over the equivalent of subcompact that was 30 years late!

 

[baajey]

Dont worry i will make sure to include cobra manoeuvre in next batch. Indian pilots will feel like home.

u wud need some indian chilli, in that case.
anyway be safe from the bloody corona.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Its just your bias if you don't elaborate or dont specify. Also, In general delta config planes don't really look good especially on small planes like the Tejas. I also think Mirage looks kinda ugly similar to the Tejas. Adding a canard would definitely improve the "looks" of the plane but I'd take function over form any day.

I think they are adding canards on Mark II. The addition is not cosmetic, it will improve lift at higher AOA and increase sustained turnrate.