Drinking liqour is not Haram - Federal Shariat Court

[Chogy]

Would you blame them or who would you adjudicate responsible for the state of your child ?

Blaming the neighbors, or especially blaming the State, is a cop out. I'd blame myself, then I'd blame my child, depending upon how old he or she is.

Along with less nanny State rules comes a need to take responsibility, both for myself, and for those who depend upon me.

 

[Mabs]

Excuse me, but raising your kids is YOUR responsibility. Your failure to meet that responsibility should NOT be imposed on anybody who are free to live IN THEIR OWN HOME they way THEY choose.

It sure is the responsibility of the parents to raise THEIR children but the parents can only do so much. As a parent I can tell my child about the bad effects of drug usage but what happens when he constantly sees people using drugs on his way to school everyday ? Are you so naive to assume that a parent's counseling and the moral conscious of a child are enough to stop him from doing something harmful ? The people on the street are not harming the child personally in anyway but are effecting him and the society on a subliminal level. These external influences are always there which play a significant role in the decision making process of an individual. How do you propose we deal with this challenge ? Shouldn't collective good supersede individual liberties ?

 

[Mabs]

Blaming the neighbors, or especially blaming the State, is a cop out. I'd blame myself, then I'd blame my child, depending upon how old he or she is.

Along with less nanny State rules comes a need to take responsibility, both for myself, and for those who depend upon me.

Yes you blame yourself to an extent but how can you not factor in the external influences that a child picks upon when he goes out and interacts with others ? Am I to believe that the neighbors constantly using drugs will have no affect whatsoever on a child just because he knows that it is bad ?

 

[M8R]

Honestly - It's a no brainier - I am very liberal person but i would never support legalization of Alcohol.I mean it's quite clear in Quran that it's haram so i don't honestly see the big issue with banning it.It should remain banned for good.Next thing we know the leftists will suggest we legalize rape/murder too since we can't stop it from happening.

 

[VCheng]

.....................Shouldn't collective good supersede individual liberties ?

No, since the road to hell is paved with that intention. Just look at human history for an enlightening lesson.

.............I mean it's quite clear in Quran that it's haram so i don't honestly see the big issue with banning it..............

No, since the Quran says it is better to avoid it, it does NOT declare it haram.

 

[M8R]

No, since the Quran says it is better to avoid it, it does NOT declare it haram.

I didn't know that.So what is the difference between Haram Products and products which Quran says we should avoid?Or is the same thing?

 

[VCheng]

I didn't know that.So what is the difference between Haram Products and products which Quran says we should avoid?Or is the same thing?

Haram means uncoditionally forbidden, for example pork. Quran uses the term "perhaiz kero" for alcohol which is the same category as divorce, allowed but not preferred. The exact ayah have been quoted in this thread previously.

 

[M8R]

Haram means uncoditionally forbidden, for example pork. Quran uses the term "perhaiz kero" for alcohol which is the same category as divorce, allowed but not preferred. The exact ayah have been quoted in this thread previously.

Thanks - I stand corrected.

 

[Cloakedvessel]

Although the type of punishment for drinking alcohol seems debatable (street justice doesn't seem right), the prohibition of alcohol is clear cut.

Alcohol NOT declared haraam in the Quran?


Question:

An aquaintance is insisting Alcohol is NOT outright declared haraam in the Quran... when quoted the explanation of sequence of revelation with the banning of alcohol in stages, he replies with the actual order of revelation of Surah's, which has Surah 3 first, then 4, then 5... with the first Surah stating "Will ye not then abstain," thereby nullifying the sequential banning of alcohol argument. Is there any response to this JUST using Quran alone?


Answer:



May this find you in the best of states and Iman.

The prohibition of alcohol in our deen is an unquestionable reality questioned only by those who have no understanding of the Arabic language or basic principles of Islamic law, and no scholarly resources.

The following should make the ruling of alcohol emphatically clear:



The great Qur'an exegete Maliki jurist and hadith scholar Imam al-Qurtubi says in his Tafsir (commentary of the Quran):



The prohibition of alcohol occurred in stages and [after] many incidents, for they [the Arabs] used to love to drink it. The first [verse] revealed regarding the matter of alcohol was: "They ask you about alcohol and gambling. Say: 'There is great sin in both although there is some benefit for people…" [Baqarah:219] i.e. [benefit] in their trade. Hence, when this verse was revealed, some people left [alcohol] saying, "We have no need for that in which there is great sin," and some did not leave it saying, "We take [from its] benefit and we leave its sin." Thereafter, the verse was revealed: "Do not approach prayer while you are drunk…" [Nisa:43] So some people left it saying, "We have no need for that which distracts us from the prayer," and some drank it outside the times of prayer until the verse was revealed: "O you who believe! Alcohol, gambling, [sacrificing for] idols, and divining of arrows are only an abomination [of Satan's work…]" [Maidah:90-91]So [alcohol] became prohibited for them such that some of them said, "Allah did not prohibit anything as strictly as alcohol."



…The saying of Allah (may He be exalted), "Avoid it", He means: "Stay away from it and put it aside." Therefore, Allah, exalted He be, ordered for these matters to be avoided. This, combined with [the use of] the imperative form ["Avoid"], the texts of the ahadith [narrations], and 'Ijma of the Ummah [ i.e.:the consensus of the entire Muslim nation], led to the "avoiding" [in the verse] to be [understood] in regards to prohibition, and by this alcohol was prohibited.



There is no disagreement between the Muslim scholars that Sura Maidah was revealed with the prohibition of alcohol and it is a Madani chapter [ i.e. revealed in Medinah] from the last of that which was revealed [hence, it was not abrogated]. Furthermore, the prohibition of [consuming] carrion meat, blood, and flesh of swine [as] is mentioned in the saying of Allah, exalted He is, "Say: I do not find [in what has been revealed to me anything forbidden for a consumer who wishes to eat it except if it is carrion, or blood poured forth, or the flesh of swine…]" [An'am:145] and [as is mentioned in] other verses, is by means of an announcement, whereas in alcohol [the prohibition] was stated with a command [to desist] and reproof and this is the strongest of prohibitions and the most emphasized. Ibn Abbas said, "When the prohibition of alcohol was revealed, the Companions of the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings of Allah upon him, walked to each other saying, 'Alcohol has been prohibited and it has been made equivalent to shirk [associating partners with Allah].'" Meaning it was [mentioned] along with sacrificing for idols and that is shirk. Thereafter, Allah said, "So that you may succeed." So He made success conditional upon the command [to avoid alcohol] and this indicates emphasizing its obligation. And Allah knows best.

[End of quote – Tafsir al-Qurtubi]



There are several important points Imam Qurtubi mentioned:

1-the order of revelation, making it clear that that the last verse was indeed the one in Sura Maidah, and thus all previous verses were abrogated by it and it wasn't abrogated by anything.

2-The language of the verse emphatically means prohibition. (Even in English, someone who drinks alcohol is not "avoiding it.")

3-There is an 'Ijma – a consensus of all Muslims that alcohol is prohibited. Consensus is one of the basic principles which the Sacred Law is built upon, hence, when there is a consensus on anything and someone denies it, he is no longer a Muslim.



Moreover, the prohibition of alcohol is considered to be from those things which are "known in the Religion by necessity." Meaning that any Muslim who is asked, be it a child or adult, learnt or not, he would know that alcohol is prohibited in Islam. Another example of this is the prayer –every Muslim knows that the prayer is obligatory. Hence, anyone who denies that which is known in the Religion by necessity has left Islam.



This abovementioned should be more than sufficient but just for additional emphasis…



From the Hidayah of Al-Marghinani:

That alcohol is prohibited in and of itself is not a result of [one being in the state of] drunkenness, nor is it [ i.e.: the prohibition] conditional upon it [i.e.: being drunk]. There are amongst the people those who deny its being prohibited by itself and say, "[Becoming] drunk from it is prohibited because that is what causes iniquity, which is [being] prevented from the remembrance of Allah, may He be exalted." This is apostasy for it is a denial of the Quran, for Allah [in the Quran] called [alcohol] sin and sin is that which is prohibited in and of itself. Additionally the Sunnah contains mutawatir * narrations from the sunnah that the Prophet, the peace and blessings of Allah upon him, prohibited alcohol, and upon this is the consensus [of the Ummah]…The one who regards alcohol as permissible is [regarded as] a disbeliever…because the prohibition of alcohol is definite.

[end of quote]

*Mutawatir meaning an extensive number of narrations such that it is impossible for the reports to have been forged. In the case of the prohibition of alcohol, there are many narrations with the same meaning, thus making the meaning of the narrations [which is the prohibition of alcohol] mutawatir.

And yes, we will quote some of these narrations even for those who 'JUST' want to use the Quran because using the narrations is using the Quran, whether they like it or not. Allah, Almighty and Exalted says:



"…Whatsoever the Messenger gives you, take it and whatsoever he forbids you from, refrain [from it]." [Hashr:7]

"Say: If you love Allah then follow me, Allah will love you and will forgive you your sins. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. Say: Obey Allah and the Messenger. If they turn away, then Allah indeed does not love those who disbelieve." [Imran:30-31]



It is very important that this point be clear – we should never answer someone on the premises of "using the Quran alone" because it is an absurd fallacy. The Quran would never have reached us were it not for the Messenger, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, so if someone doesn't want to use what the Messenger (peace and blessings be forever upon him), brought – he can't use the Quran either. Yes, the narrations in the sunnah have different levels of authenticity, from authentic to weak. Nonetheless, there are narrations that have the same level of authenticity as the Quran – the mutawatir (as mentioned above) – such that anyone who denies a narration that is mutawatir is like denying a verse in the Quran – it is disbelief. Likewise, denying that the Sunnah is a source of legislation is disbelief because it is direct denial of the verses quoted above.





Hence, from the collections of Imam Bukhari and Muslim, the narration of Anas, "Alcohol was prohibited for us…", likewise the narrations of Ibn Umar, and Umar, may Allah be pleased with them all.



This following is narrated by Imams Abu Dawud, Tirmidhi, Nasa'I, and Ahmad:



"When the prohibition of alcohol was [being] revealed, Umar said, "O Allah! Clarify for us the [matter of] alcohol with a clear statement," thus the verse which is in Baqarah was revealed, "They ask you about alcohol and gambling. Say: In them is great sin…" So Umar was called and it was read to him and he said [again], "O Allah! Clarify for us the [matter of] alcohol with a clear statement." Thereafter the verse in Al-Nisa was revealed: "O you who believe! Do not approach prayer while you are drunk…" Hence, the herald of the Messenger of Allah, the peace and blesseings of Allah upon him, would call out when the prayer was about to commence, "Let no drunken approach the prayer," and Umar was called [again] and it was read to him. He said, "O Allah! Clarify for us the [matter of] alcohol with a clear statement," so the verse was revealed, "…so will you not refrain?!" Umar said, "We refrain."



ALL of these Imams included a section on the prohibition of alcohol in their collections. As for those who do not accept the sunnah of the Messenger and they want to "use JUST the Quran" – they have no acceptance from Allah in this deen and have come out of the Light of Islam, peace and blessings of Allah forever upon him.



What has been quoted here is very little compared to the vast literature on the subject, i.e. from all the scholars who have written about the prohibition of alcohol, but inshaAllah it should be more than sufficient for anyone in doubt. Those who would still deny the prohibition of alcohol after all this, it is out of their audacity to deny that which Allah has revealed in His Book and what He has revealed on the tongue of His Messenger, the peace and blessings of Allah upon him and so we say to them: Allah indeed does not love those who disbelieve.

"…Those who do not judge by that which Allah has revealed, those are the disbelievers." [Maidah:44]



And Allah alone gives success.



Waslaaam,
Shaista Maqbool

Alcohol NOT declared haraam in the Quran?

 

[nescafe]

the difference lies in the thickness of your wallet and the cells (or lackthereof in some cases) in the brain


by the way, since when do nightclub bathrooms have couches? Where are you hanging out sir?

i said restroom, which is not specifically a bathing-room. its a place people come out to escape from the heat for a while. i may have been to cheap night clubs. but you have never been to any club for sure.

 

[Mabs]

No, since the road to hell is paved with that intention. Just look at human history for an enlightening lesson..

And you conveniently chose not to reply to the rest of my post. Probably it was below the intellectual frequency that you operate at. Enlighten me with the history that you talk of Sensei.

 

[VCheng]

And you conveniently chose not to reply to the rest of my post. Probably it was below the intellectual frequency that you operate at. Enlighten me with the history that you talk off Sensei.

Shifu the Sensei says: "One must first master the highest level of kung fu, and that is clearly impossible if that one is someone like you." (Kung Fu Panda)

 

[Mabs]

Although the type of punishment for drinking alcohol seems debatable (street justice doesn't seem right), the prohibition of alcohol is clear cut.

Alcohol NOT declared haraam in the Quran?


Question:

An aquaintance is insisting Alcohol is NOT outright declared haraam in the Quran... when quoted the explanation of sequence of revelation with the banning of alcohol in stages, he replies with the actual order of revelation of Surah's, which has Surah 3 first, then 4, then 5... with the first Surah stating "Will ye not then abstain," thereby nullifying the sequential banning of alcohol argument. Is there any response to this JUST using Quran alone?


Answer:



May this find you in the best of states and Iman.

The prohibition of alcohol in our deen is an unquestionable reality questioned only by those who have no understanding of the Arabic language or basic principles of Islamic law, and no scholarly resources.

The following should make the ruling of alcohol emphatically clear:



The great Qur'an exegete Maliki jurist and hadith scholar Imam al-Qurtubi says in his Tafsir (commentary of the Quran):



The prohibition of alcohol occurred in stages and [after] many incidents, for they [the Arabs] used to love to drink it. The first [verse] revealed regarding the matter of alcohol was: "They ask you about alcohol and gambling. Say: 'There is great sin in both although there is some benefit for people…" [Baqarah:219] i.e. [benefit] in their trade. Hence, when this verse was revealed, some people left [alcohol] saying, "We have no need for that in which there is great sin," and some did not leave it saying, "We take [from its] benefit and we leave its sin." Thereafter, the verse was revealed: "Do not approach prayer while you are drunk…" [Nisa:43] So some people left it saying, "We have no need for that which distracts us from the prayer," and some drank it outside the times of prayer until the verse was revealed: "O you who believe! Alcohol, gambling, [sacrificing for] idols, and divining of arrows are only an abomination [of Satan's work…]" [Maidah:90-91]So [alcohol] became prohibited for them such that some of them said, "Allah did not prohibit anything as strictly as alcohol."



…The saying of Allah (may He be exalted), "Avoid it", He means: "Stay away from it and put it aside." Therefore, Allah, exalted He be, ordered for these matters to be avoided. This, combined with [the use of] the imperative form ["Avoid"], the texts of the ahadith [narrations], and 'Ijma of the Ummah [ i.e.:the consensus of the entire Muslim nation], led to the "avoiding" [in the verse] to be [understood] in regards to prohibition, and by this alcohol was prohibited.



There is no disagreement between the Muslim scholars that Sura Maidah was revealed with the prohibition of alcohol and it is a Madani chapter [ i.e. revealed in Medinah] from the last of that which was revealed [hence, it was not abrogated]. Furthermore, the prohibition of [consuming] carrion meat, blood, and flesh of swine [as] is mentioned in the saying of Allah, exalted He is, "Say: I do not find [in what has been revealed to me anything forbidden for a consumer who wishes to eat it except if it is carrion, or blood poured forth, or the flesh of swine…]" [An'am:145] and [as is mentioned in] other verses, is by means of an announcement, whereas in alcohol [the prohibition] was stated with a command [to desist] and reproof and this is the strongest of prohibitions and the most emphasized. Ibn Abbas said, "When the prohibition of alcohol was revealed, the Companions of the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings of Allah upon him, walked to each other saying, 'Alcohol has been prohibited and it has been made equivalent to shirk [associating partners with Allah].'" Meaning it was [mentioned] along with sacrificing for idols and that is shirk. Thereafter, Allah said, "So that you may succeed." So He made success conditional upon the command [to avoid alcohol] and this indicates emphasizing its obligation. And Allah knows best.

[End of quote – Tafsir al-Qurtubi]



There are several important points Imam Qurtubi mentioned:

1-the order of revelation, making it clear that that the last verse was indeed the one in Sura Maidah, and thus all previous verses were abrogated by it and it wasn't abrogated by anything.

2-The language of the verse emphatically means prohibition. (Even in English, someone who drinks alcohol is not "avoiding it.")

3-There is an 'Ijma – a consensus of all Muslims that alcohol is prohibited. Consensus is one of the basic principles which the Sacred Law is built upon, hence, when there is a consensus on anything and someone denies it, he is no longer a Muslim.



Moreover, the prohibition of alcohol is considered to be from those things which are "known in the Religion by necessity." Meaning that any Muslim who is asked, be it a child or adult, learnt or not, he would know that alcohol is prohibited in Islam. Another example of this is the prayer –every Muslim knows that the prayer is obligatory. Hence, anyone who denies that which is known in the Religion by necessity has left Islam.



This abovementioned should be more than sufficient but just for additional emphasis…



From the Hidayah of Al-Marghinani:

That alcohol is prohibited in and of itself is not a result of [one being in the state of] drunkenness, nor is it [ i.e.: the prohibition] conditional upon it [i.e.: being drunk]. There are amongst the people those who deny its being prohibited by itself and say, "[Becoming] drunk from it is prohibited because that is what causes iniquity, which is [being] prevented from the remembrance of Allah, may He be exalted." This is apostasy for it is a denial of the Quran, for Allah [in the Quran] called [alcohol] sin and sin is that which is prohibited in and of itself. Additionally the Sunnah contains mutawatir * narrations from the sunnah that the Prophet, the peace and blessings of Allah upon him, prohibited alcohol, and upon this is the consensus [of the Ummah]…The one who regards alcohol as permissible is [regarded as] a disbeliever…because the prohibition of alcohol is definite.

[end of quote]

*Mutawatir meaning an extensive number of narrations such that it is impossible for the reports to have been forged. In the case of the prohibition of alcohol, there are many narrations with the same meaning, thus making the meaning of the narrations [which is the prohibition of alcohol] mutawatir.

And yes, we will quote some of these narrations even for those who 'JUST' want to use the Quran because using the narrations is using the Quran, whether they like it or not. Allah, Almighty and Exalted says:



"…Whatsoever the Messenger gives you, take it and whatsoever he forbids you from, refrain [from it]." [Hashr:7]

"Say: If you love Allah then follow me, Allah will love you and will forgive you your sins. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. Say: Obey Allah and the Messenger. If they turn away, then Allah indeed does not love those who disbelieve." [Imran:30-31]



It is very important that this point be clear – we should never answer someone on the premises of "using the Quran alone" because it is an absurd fallacy. The Quran would never have reached us were it not for the Messenger, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, so if someone doesn't want to use what the Messenger (peace and blessings be forever upon him), brought – he can't use the Quran either. Yes, the narrations in the sunnah have different levels of authenticity, from authentic to weak. Nonetheless, there are narrations that have the same level of authenticity as the Quran – the mutawatir (as mentioned above) – such that anyone who denies a narration that is mutawatir is like denying a verse in the Quran – it is disbelief. Likewise, denying that the Sunnah is a source of legislation is disbelief because it is direct denial of the verses quoted above.





Hence, from the collections of Imam Bukhari and Muslim, the narration of Anas, "Alcohol was prohibited for us…", likewise the narrations of Ibn Umar, and Umar, may Allah be pleased with them all.



This following is narrated by Imams Abu Dawud, Tirmidhi, Nasa'I, and Ahmad:



"When the prohibition of alcohol was [being] revealed, Umar said, "O Allah! Clarify for us the [matter of] alcohol with a clear statement," thus the verse which is in Baqarah was revealed, "They ask you about alcohol and gambling. Say: In them is great sin…" So Umar was called and it was read to him and he said [again], "O Allah! Clarify for us the [matter of] alcohol with a clear statement." Thereafter the verse in Al-Nisa was revealed: "O you who believe! Do not approach prayer while you are drunk…" Hence, the herald of the Messenger of Allah, the peace and blesseings of Allah upon him, would call out when the prayer was about to commence, "Let no drunken approach the prayer," and Umar was called [again] and it was read to him. He said, "O Allah! Clarify for us the [matter of] alcohol with a clear statement," so the verse was revealed, "…so will you not refrain?!" Umar said, "We refrain."



ALL of these Imams included a section on the prohibition of alcohol in their collections. As for those who do not accept the sunnah of the Messenger and they want to "use JUST the Quran" – they have no acceptance from Allah in this deen and have come out of the Light of Islam, peace and blessings of Allah forever upon him.



What has been quoted here is very little compared to the vast literature on the subject, i.e. from all the scholars who have written about the prohibition of alcohol, but inshaAllah it should be more than sufficient for anyone in doubt. Those who would still deny the prohibition of alcohol after all this, it is out of their audacity to deny that which Allah has revealed in His Book and what He has revealed on the tongue of His Messenger, the peace and blessings of Allah upon him and so we say to them: Allah indeed does not love those who disbelieve.

"…Those who do not judge by that which Allah has revealed, those are the disbelievers." [Maidah:44]



And Allah alone gives success.



Waslaaam,
Shaista Maqbool

Alcohol NOT declared haraam in the Quran?

This, for me has been a pure scholarly debate and I was unclear on the status of alcohol before this. The above mentioned points in my opinion very aptly illustrates that alcohol indeed is not permissible and answers almost all the questions raised by the people against it. If anyone has any scholarly proof to refute the above mentioned evidence, I would be very interested in seeing it.

 

[VCheng]

This, for me has been a pure scholarly debate and I was unclear on the status of alcohol before this. The above mentioned points in my opinion very aptly illustrates that alcohol indeed is not permissible and answers almost all the questions raised by the people against it. If anyone has any scholarly proof to refute the above mentioned evidence, I would be very interested in seeing it.

Absolutely correct to say that, since you can make up your mind, and let others make up their minds, based on evidence judged to be logically acceptable to each one.

In short, to each, their own.

So you see, there is no real issue here.

 

[Pashtun Khan]

Islamic republic of pakistan to Alcoholic republic of pakistan