Dr Shashi Tharoor MP - Britain Does Owe Reparations

[anant_s]

Well Tharoor has a much better understanding of International politics than anyone in Congress can claim, given his stints at UN, so it is essential to give the man a proper listening.
On the question of reparation, i'll share a story in terms of how some people still think of British Raaj as of any relevance today(i guess i mentioned it some time here on PDF, but for the sake of this thread again), here it goes...
Long time back two Buddhist Monks were traveling on foot through a forest. They came across a small stream having muddy waters, they decided to cross stream. While they were doing so, they saw a Young lady sitting on bank of stream, perhaps not sure of depth of stream and hence afraid to cross it. One Monk offered help to the lady, to which she agreed. The lady on Monk's Shoulder and they crossed the stream safely. On other side, Lady thanked the gracious monk and they bid goodbyes and moved in different directions. The other monk was in shock as Buddhist monks are taught never to come in Physical contact of a woman and this whole act troubled him. They kept walking for days, till one day, he could bear no more and asked his fellow, why he touched the lady?
To this the Monk who helped smiled and said, Brother i did the act as a help any human being would extend to other. The lady was off my shoulders on other side of stream, but why are you still carrying her on yours even after so many days?

The moral: Irrespective of anything or event in life, one must move on, there is no point carrying it forever. What happened in British Raaj was over almost 7 decades ago with our independence. Let us move forward.

All the third world countries and roots of all their troubles (be it India-Pak tensions, Rwanda ethnic cleansing etc etc) can be traced back to the mistakes committed by their colonial era masters.

While it is correct the most of these problems can be traced back to hastily completed retreat from colonies by the colonial masters, but the fact that these problems still exist (after 60-700 odd years) also tell, us that even after so much time, the nations haven't matured enough to sort out themselves. That to me, is a greater disappointment.

He has some excellent academic & professional credentials - should go as an independent politician

 

[Levina]

What happened in British Raaj was over almost 7 decades ago with our independence. Let us move forward.

Not so easily...

While it is correct the most of these problems can be traced back to hastily completed retreat from colonies by the colonial masters, but the fact that these problems still exist (after 60-700 odd years) also tell, us that even after so much time, the nations haven't matured enough to sort out themselves. That to me, is a greater disappointment.

Yes, some of the social evils existed even before Britishers found their way to India.
But the economical setback faced by India due to its colonisation can not be ignored.
The Bengal famine can not be forgotten or forgiven.

*********
British rule came with its pros and cons, but i strongly believe that the cons outweighed the pros. So no I am not if favor of letting the Britisher live guilt free till India gets reparations. If there's a legal route to it then India should take it. If not anything,the kohinoor can be returned to India.

His books are quite good too. Makes for easy reading.

I like his articles, those are usually very neutral. He has never let India down on international forums.

 

[Archie]

Well, UK can start by returning all the Indian artifacts that they have stolen and which now are kept in museums all around UK.

 

[anant_s]

But the economical setback faced by India due to its colonisation can not be ignored.

can't argue with that.
I'm reading a book these days, India After Gandhi (Ramchandra Guha). here the writer argues one thing against the popularly held notion that attackers and later British raaj left India poorer (it isn't wrong, but Guha sees it from another perspective). He notes that today we see things in context of India as a nation. Between the age of strong Mughal rule (before the decline began) and then small instances of strong regional rulers (Maratha rule under Shivaji Maharaj, Tipu Sultan in modern day Karnataka etc), it is difficult to see India as a large unified single entity (if u excuse the word). Now here while British were milking the Indian wealth, they also unified the nation in an economic sense (it was to further their goals only) by means of an administrative system, railways, revenue system etc.
When India got freedom and later unified as one nation under Sardar Patel and V P Menon, the above unification later helped India grow at a much faster rate (or accumulation of wealth), than what would have been possible with say independent 200 years as small kingdoms.
i don't know how much Britishers looted from India (in terms of a numerical value), but surely, we as a nation have certainly outgrown what those 500 odd (some say 563) princely states would have till now.

If not anything,the kohinoor can be returned to India.

I would trade that diamond if someone could undo this unfortunate event of Indian History.

 

[micky]

never ever can forget whay they did systematically to ours,,,,,,, who calls themselves as gentlemen.....

they made us believe that things from west is far superior than here.......... and they succeeded

 

[scorpionx]

Well Tharoor has a much better understanding of International politics than anyone in Congress can claim, given his stints at UN, so it is essential to give the man a proper listening.
On the question of reparation, i'll share a story in terms of how some people still think of British Raaj as of any relevance today(i guess i mentioned it some time here on PDF, but for the sake of this thread again), here it goes...
Long time back two Buddhist Monks were traveling on foot through a forest. They came across a small stream having muddy waters, they decided to cross stream. While they were doing so, they saw a Young lady sitting on bank of stream, perhaps not sure of depth of stream and hence afraid to cross it. One Monk offered help to the lady, to which she agreed. The lady on Monk's Shoulder and they crossed the stream safely. On other side, Lady thanked the gracious monk and they bid goodbyes and moved in different directions. The other monk was in shock as Buddhist monks are taught never to come in Physical contact of a woman and this whole act troubled him. They kept walking for days, till one day, he could bear no more and asked his fellow, why he touched the lady?
To this the Monk who helped smiled and said, Brother i did the act as a help any human being would extend to other. The lady was off my shoulders on other side of stream, but why are you still carrying her on yours even after so many days?

The moral: Irrespective of anything or event in life, one must move on, there is no point carrying it forever. What happened in British Raaj was over almost 7 decades ago with our independence. Let us move forward.


While it is correct the most of these problems can be traced back to hastily completed retreat from colonies by the colonial masters, but the fact that these problems still exist (after 60-700 odd years) also tell, us that even after so much time, the nations haven't matured enough to sort out themselves. That to me, is a greater disappointment.

Excellent reference!! But I hardly believe Tharoor gave any notion that we should not move on. In fact we have moved on and scarcely any one in India give it a single moment of thought to get some reparation from Britain today for what they did for two hundred years. A two hundred years of crime can not be compensated with any monetary means.

The basic premise of his argument perhaps rests on the fact that GB has paid compensation in some form of money or an apology to a number of its colonies which India righteously deserve more than any other of its colonies for being the biggest cash cow in its history. It is the same way other that may be perhaps after hundred years, some politician in the Indian parliament will apologize to the masses for the great harm they did to their own country for the last two hundred years after becoming Independent.

can't argue with that.
I'm reading a book these days, India After Gandhi (Ramchandra Guha). here the writer argues one thing against the popularly held notion that attackers and later British raaj left India poorer (it isn't wrong, but Guha sees it from another perspective). He notes that today we see things in context of India as a nation. Between the age of strong Mughal rule (before the decline began) and then small instances of strong regional rulers (Maratha rule under Shivaji Maharaj, Tipu Sultan in modern day Karnataka etc), it is difficult to see India as a large unified single entity (if u excuse the word). Now here while British were milking the Indian wealth, they also unified the nation in an economic sense (it was to further their goals only) by means of an administrative system, railways, revenue system etc.
When India got freedom and later unified as one nation under Sardar Patel and V P Menon, the above unification later helped India grow at a much faster rate (or accumulation of wealth), than what would have been possible with say independent 200 years as small kingdoms.
i don't know how much Britishers looted from India (in terms of a numerical value), but surely, we as a nation have certainly outgrown what those 500 odd (some say 563) princely states would have till now.


I would trade that diamond if someone could undo this unfortunate event of Indian History.
View attachment 240439

I have not gone through this book yet. Seems a must read.

never ever can forget whay they did systematically to ours,,,,,,, who calls themselves as gentlemen.....

they made us believe that things from west is far superior than here.......... and they succeeded

This quote is actually a fake one. He was not even in England, late alone in British parliament in 1835.

 

[Armstrong]

Excellent reference!! But I hardly believe Tharoor gave any notion that we should not move on. In fact we have moved on and scarcely any one in India give it a single moment of thought to get some reparation from Britain today for what they did for two hundred years. A two hundred years of crime can not be compensated with any monetary means.

The basic premise of his argument perhaps rests on the fact that GB has paid compensation in some form of money or an apology to a number of its colonies which India righteously deserve more than any other of its colonies for being the biggest cash cow in its history. It is the same way other that may be perhaps after hundred years, some politician in the Indian parliament will apologize to the masses for the great harm they did to their own country for the last two hundred years after becoming Independent.

I have not gone through this book yet. Seems a must read.

This quote is actually a fake one. He was not even in England, late alone in British parliament in 1835.

I say its far too messy to figure out who did what to whom, who owes what to whom, who actually are the whos and whoms we're talking about considering that they're changed to the point of being unrecognizable to their progenitors and whether the whos and the whoms have any right to ask for anything that their ancestors did or did not do to others and to themselves ?

So let bygones be bygones and lets get over it. A truth and reconciliation commission could be a better bet than any monetary compensation.

 

[proud_indian]

 

[anant_s]

I have not gone through this book yet. Seems a must read.

yes sir, i'm quite a fan of Guha, especially his writings and essays on cricket, but this book is great too. I've only read first 150 odd pages, but i find the narrative quite honest, a refreshing change from a lot of other Indian writers who tend to create larger than life figures out of our leaders of independence struggle. it also gives an insight into what went wrong with state of jammu & Kashmir and how Pt. Nehru on advice of Lord Mountbatten messed up the things.

The basic premise of his argument perhaps rests on the fact that GB has paid compensation in some form of money or an apology to a number of its colonies which India righteously deserve more than any other of its colonies for being the biggest cash cow in its history.

Exactly sir.
No amount of monetary compensation can make good for the tyranny of rule and atrocities committed. if i may use the phrase that money (if it is somehow possible to calculate in first place) would not be much different from Blood Money. Colonialism is now a part of history and so is British Dominance of world (irrespective of what some stories by Ian fleming tell us).

It is the same way other that may be perhaps after hundred years, some politician in the Indian parliament will apologize to the masses for the great harm they did to their own country for the last two hundred years after becoming Independent.

i guess if someday elected leaders have an honest feeling that they have a job in hand and not some privilege, we will have greatest democracy in the world, that truly represents a multi-cultural and plural society.

So let bygones be bygones and lets get over it. A truth and reconciliation commission could be a better bet than any monetary compensation.

Absolutely.

 

[Kaniska]

This guy is in wron party..He is a more polished version of Dr Swamy..He should join BJP....Even i can not criticize him although he is in Congress...

 

[micky]

I have not gone through this book yet. Seems a must read.



This quote is actually a fake one. He was not even in England, late alone in British parliament in 1835.[/QUOTE]
are you sure,,,,,,,,,,,????

yes man,,,,,,,, i just knew its fake quote..........my damn......