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Doubtful video showing Army 'abusing' in Swat

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Times of Oman

Pakistan army orders inquiry into Internet beating clip

AFP
03 October 2009 15:25:48 Oman Time

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan's military has ordered an inquiry into a video clip apparently showing members of the security forces viciously beating suspected militants, the army spokesman said Saturday.

The 10-minute clip, widely circulated on the Internet, shows men in Pakistan army uniforms questioning at least four suspects in turn, before pushing them to the ground and kicking and whipping the cowering and screaming detainees.

Some of the civilians appear old and all wear the traditional Pakistani salwar kameez outfit. Armed police in bullet-proof vests stand by and watch the scene, which appears to take place at a police station or detention centre.

"We have ordered a detailed investigation into this incident," military spokesman Major General Athar Abbas told AFP. "The inquiry is underway and the culprits will face stern action if (the abuse) is proven," he said, refusing to give any details about the clip.

It is unclear where the alleged abuse took place, but the military in April launched a fierce offensive against Taliban militants across swathes of the northwest, starting in the one-time tourist haven of Swat valley.

Pakistani security forces are already facing questions about the mysterious appearance of about 250 dead bodies of suspected militants that have been turning up in Swat, some showing signs of torture.

The military claims to have almost cleared the scenic valley of Islamist fighters and says the dead rebels were killed by avenging local residents, but human rights groups have accused the army of extra-judicial killings.The military denies any responsibility and says no orders have been issued to execute suspected militants.

Swat had slipped out of government control after radical cleric Maulana Fazlullah mounted a violent campaign in which his followers beheaded opponents, burnt schools and fought against troops to enforce Islamic sharia law.

The army says nearly 2,150 militants and 177 soldiers were killed in the Swat, Buner and Lower Dir operations, and the military has now set its sights on an offensive in the lawless tribal belt bordering Afghanistan.
 
abu gharib, gitmo and bagram - real examples of developed, progressive nations!

It is important to note that these are exceptions to the rule, illegal ones at that. Not the other way around.

@Unbeliever. This torture is wrong but what happen in Afghanistan and USA CIA torture cells thats all right. Kind of double standard.

Torture is always wrong and I do not condone it under any circumstances, neither does any western government (or society), except the previous one of the United States. Which is a shame to put it mildly. The stupid, cruel mistakes made under the Bush Administration cannot be undone by Obama and in my opinion have hurt us (the west) more in our core values than any terrorist ever could.

If it in truth continues 'till this day than we (the west, my government) have failed.

Torture can be necessary in a ticking time bomb scenario where you need the truth and you need it now. But it should be the call of someone extremely senior who is ready to take the repercussions of being wrong

This scenario is a pure hypothetical. It is always plans that are sought by people who torture. Affiliations, future plans.. etc.

And more important if you cannot see the moral implications is, torture doesn't work. Ask any senior interrogator(for example many FBI), a tortured man will tell you what you want to hear, not the truth. Classical police interrogation is much more effective, working with the suspect, offering to "do something for his family" etc.
That is why police work does not even require torture.
No one has the right to give such orders because if you open the door for such practices you will torture innocent people. See your scenario is exactly what the US tried to do.. and look where it got them. It is impossible to be "sure" to have the right guy and since the middle ages your argumentation has been used. But we left that behind us.
Torture is wrong, unnecessary and inexcusable. That's it.
 
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i have seen the video its flipin insane understandbly Soldiers are angry but if v were to do insane stupid things what these lots have been doing then there will be no difference left.
 
And more important if you cannot see the moral implications is, torture doesn't work. Ask any senior interrogator(for example many FBI), a tortured man will tell you what you want to hear, not the truth. Classical police interrogation is much more effective, working with the suspect, offering to "do something for his family" etc.
That is why police work does not even require torture.
No one has the right to give such orders because if you open the door for such practices you will torture innocent people. See your scenario is exactly what the US tried to do.. and look where it got them. It is impossible to be "sure" to have the right guy and since the middle ages your argumentation has been used. But we left that behind us.
Torture is wrong, unnecessary and inexcusable. That's it.

The world isn't black and white and I keep the door open for the morally grey areas. However I do encourage, insist and support all moves that would lead towards rectification of our police work. The hypothetical scenario is just that, a rare oddity, by some accounts this was one. But as we all have shared experiences, torture isn't unheard of for petty things.

I hope the investigation reveals something fruitful. Kayani is a modern thinking man who has "fixed" many things wrong with the Army and has brought in many positives. We can be at least hopeful, that this won't be buried under bureaucracy.
 
We should not jump to conclusion untill investigation completed.

Longer stay of army in area may reverse the direction of winds towards jehadi mullahs again.
 
That is why police work does not even require torture.

Ever met anyone who was arrested by the POLICE because someone from the Gang which he works for killed someone ?

Just wanted to know.
 
This action may be justified if it was known for certain that the people had knowledge related to criminal activities, otherwise it is morally wrong.
 
:frown:Salam to all sir i would like to divert ur attention toward the proxy and media wars tht not just some tv channels but web sites are promothing against PAK ARMY.These include videos of OUR SHAHEEDS AFTER THERE ..... AND OTHER BAST..LY ACTS OF TALIBANS,AS WELL AS ABUSSINGPAK ARMY SO WAT IS SPR DOING IN THIS MATTER.SO PLZ FOR GODS SAKE I BEG U PEOPLE TO INITIATE SOME SOLID STEPS THANK U:pakistan: PAK ARMY ZINDABAD
 
This was nothing compared to what these Taliban do to their own "Women".

You are suggested that Army is bad but not as bad as Taliban. Beating a teacher for no reason and u think Army is not as bad as Taliban.

Astagfirullah !!!!
 
Times of Oman

Pakistan army orders inquiry into Internet beating clip



"We have ordered a detailed investigation into this incident," military spokesman Major General Athar Abbas told AFP. "The inquiry is underway and the culprits will face stern action if (the abuse) is proven," he said, refusing to give any details about the clip.

I think the Army has taken the correct position on the issue and clarified its stance.

Clearly the actions on the video, while not brutal, are not part of standard Army interrogation techniques either.

While some people are understanably outraged by the Taliban barbarity towards civilians and soldiers alike and think they deserve far worse treatment, we should accept the Army's position on this and understand that despite our anger, we need to try and uphold the rule of law and certain values.
 
You are suggested that Army is bad but not as bad as Taliban. Beating a teacher for no reason and u think Army is not as bad as Taliban.

Astagfirullah !!!!

There are instances when all of us would argue with our fathers or shout at someone elderly which is another Astagfirullah instance but the sad fact is that human nature is not something very simple to decipher just by looking at one outburst of rage...you see people in our streets in a traffic accident and their fistfights may make them look evil but sometimes anger gets the best of us...

Point is that one bad thing does not make a person evil and certainly few persons doing something wrong do not make entire institution evil...

As an institution you do not judge just by the mistakes made by few but how the mistake is analyzed and the culprits are held...the case of one professor getting beat up was handled in the strict manner we expect from the Pak Fauj...it shows that Fauj does act when informed...i think this thing will improve now that the Fauj is thrown in the midst of our people in this COIN operation of a grand scale...

I think this cloud has a silver lining...
whether true or false this video will make Fauj only more cautious and tactful...even though it has shown excellent behavior already in Swat...especially once we consider what TTP and their goons have been doing to all Pakistanis...even summary executions done by Fauj would not have been entirely out of line...still i am glad the mild approach has been taken...this investigation will only improve the operation's efficiency...
 
You are suggested that Army is bad but not as bad as Taliban. Beating a teacher for no reason and u think Army is not as bad as Taliban.

Astagfirullah !!!!
yea but Army did not encourage that act..now did it?It was not Army institutional policy.In fact, Army punished the soldier..asked him to apologize to professor, then gave him 28 days jail..one month salary cut..the CO of 11 corps also apologized.You people love to Generalize..By your analogy, all Pakistanis are as bad as Taliban.
 
yea but Army did not encourage that act..now did it?It was not Army institutional policy.In fact, Army punished the soldier..asked him to apologize to professor, then gave him 28 days jail..one month salary cut..the CO of 11 corps also apologized.You people love to Generalize..By your analogy, all Pakistanis are as bad as Taliban.

Free media Zindahabad
 
Free media Zindahabad

Yes - it was the downfall of Musharraf, it was the down fall of the Swat Taliban (by highlighting that video of the girl being whipped and other atrocities and then pointing out the anti-democracy and anti-judiciary comments of the taliban leadership), and it has highlighted incidents that prompted corrective action from the Army and will hopefully ensure such incidents are minimized or eliminated in the future.

A responsible media has an important role to play in ensuring a vibrant democracy.
 
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