Does the PN need an aircraft carrier?

[Vibs]

Point I tried to made was that Sea Harriers provided VTOL but was sub-sonic.

The F-35's would offer the same feature PLUS many capabilities and that too at super sonic speeds.

VTOL is a great capability to have and can save a lot of time especially during war.

F-35's are expensive planes and the carrier modified version are expected to be even more expensive. As far as VTOL is concerned, the IAC 2 design modifications are said to incorporate this feature to allow for a Naval FGFA. But those are speculations.

Pakistan already has J-17's and F-16's with BVR capabilities. I doubt they require an Aircraft carrier with advanced aircraft for their requirements.
Indian Mig 29k's are suited well enough to give air superiority

 

[Black Widow]

you guys couldn't afford that itself!!!!!!!!!!!!!! anyways ACC is a distant dream for pakistan because of cost and purpose factor..... Now that China has aquired an ACC USA and WEST will develop weapon tech which will make ACC redundant and with no practicality in coming years......ACC has no future

ACC has no future... Wow! alarming.... Do you know its not ACC which is to feared off, Its CBG... Imagine a fleet of 4 stealth frigate (Shivalik), 4 destroyer (P17A), 4 killer Submarine, AEWCS, Submarine killer helos, MiG29K and one Aircraft carrier... So now it sound deadly?????

Imagine 3 such CBGs guarding 3 side of India.. ACCs are not showpiece, its represent the power of a nation...

@ Nuclear missile: If a country fire nuclear missile on other (Be it land or sea), other country can too use nukes.. Then god only can save A$$$...
@Carrier Killer missile: it's a ballistic missile , CBG knows how to counter Ballistic missiles..
@ cruise missile: It need 100 cruise missile to bring down 1 carrier, it need 10000 cruise missile launch then only few can reach CBG, there are plenty of Anti cruise missiles available...

 

[tjpf]

ACC has no future... Wow! alarming.... Do you know its not ACC which is to feared off, Its CBG... Imagine a fleet of 4 stealth frigate (Shivalik), 4 destroyer (P17A), 4 killer Submarine, AEWCS, Submarine killer helos, MiG29K and one Aircraft carrier... So now it sound deadly?????

Imagine 3 such CBGs guarding 3 side of India.. ACCs are not showpiece, its represent the power of a nation...

@ Nuclear missile: If a country fire nuclear missile on other (Be it land or sea), other country can too use nukes.. Then god only can save A$$$...
@Carrier Killer missile: it's a ballistic missile , CBG knows how to counter Ballistic missiles..
@ cruise missile: It need 100 cruise missile to bring down 1 carrier, it need 10000 cruise missile launch then only few can reach CBG, there are plenty of Anti cruise missiles available...

BRO presently yes ACC has great value but the moment CHINA developed its ACC and has ambition to build more ACC the WEST and USA will develop weapons that will make ACC not that lethal and do you think India will let its CBG near pak shores without absolutely being sure whether there is no potential threat to it from above or below water!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Black Widow]

@ Carrier killing:
many member talk bout destroying a carrier using Ballistic missiles, cruise missiles or nukes... I will tell one story...

Once I was talking to my American friend, I told him "coz of AWACS and EW aircraft you are strong, once your AWACS and EW is down, one can fry your Airforce..." His answer was "for this first you need to reach my AWACS"

Similar logic applied to ACC, ACCs are docked at a safe place, from where it can do a maximum damage , incurring minimum damage....

 

[Black Widow]

BRO presently yes ACC has great value but the moment CHINA developed its ACC and has ambition to build more ACC the WEST and USA will develop weapons that will make ACC not that lethal and do you think India will let its CBG near pak shores without absolutely being sure whether there is no potential threat to it from above or below water!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bro I do agree with you, I am not saying that destroying ACC is impossible... I am just saying that its difficult... whole cold war USSR was making carriers, did west developed some magical weapon to bring it down???

only a mixture great strategy, awesome luck , surprise attack can bring a carrier down.. and even if west start making this magical weapon carrier will evolve better defense capabilities...

It's like " in 20 year India will as powerful as current USA, but in the same 20 years USA will go far ahead of current USA.."

 

[tjpf]

@ Carrier killing:
many member talk bout destroying a carrier using Ballistic missiles, cruise missiles or nukes... I will tell one story...

Once I was talking to my American friend, I told him "coz of AWACS and EW aircraft you are strong, once your AWACS and EW is down, one can fry your Airforce..." His answer was "for this first you need to reach my AWACS"

Similar logic applied to ACC, ACCs are docked at a safe place, from where it can do a maximum damage , incurring minimum damage....

yes but then USA had no serious threat from china and its ambitious ACC project........ You think american wont come with tech to really make ACC redundant??????? If USA or WEST comes up with that tech don't u think that tech will trickle down to other countries eventually!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[tjpf]

Bro I do agree with you, I am not saying that destroying ACC is impossible... I am just saying that its difficult... whole cold war USSR was making carriers, did west developed some magical weapon to bring it down???

only a mixture great strategy, awesome luck , surprise attack can bring a carrier down.. and even if west start making this magical weapon carrier will evolve better defense capabilities...

It's like " in 20 year India will as powerful as current USA, but in the same 20 years USA will go far ahead of current USA.."

But in this era tech are developed at fast pace!!!!Bunker busters, BVRM, Javelin are some of the many hard core tech which would change war scenario on its own (read Stinger missile by Afghan mujahideen)......

 

[Black Widow]

@#@Topic: Pakistan do need a CBG. Ppl claim here that Pakistan small coastal line don't need good navy... All bullshit.. small coastal line is bane for Pakistan... What if Indian navy block Pakistan coast??? sitting 500+ km away Indian carriers/super-carriers/CBG can put Embargo on Pakistan... Pakistan can't get resources from west (Iran and afghan border), East border will be shilded by Indian army, Water is shielded by Indian navy..


So moral of story is " To keep its waterline clean, supply uninterrupted, Pakistan need better navy, and nothing is better than CBG"..

 

[tjpf]

Money and also years of hands on experience which pakistan doesn't has????

 

[Black Widow]

But in this era tech are developed at fast pace!!!!Bunker busters, BVRM, Javelin are some of the many hard core tech which would change war scenario on its own (read Stinger missile by Afghan mujahideen)......

thats what i said in my post "only a mixture great strategy, awesome luck , surprise attack can bring a carrier down.. and even if west start making this magical weapon carrier will evolve better defense capabilities... " Stinger was a great strategy of Charlie Wilson. Afghan were fighting Gurilla war. In gurilla war not always advance technology wins...

I do agree with all your points, But can you please agree with my one point?? "CBG/ACC will rule water for atleast 20 more years "


Thats why pakistan need one CBG,.... They have good relation with Americans, if they can manage to buy one Nimitz class carrier, It will be pain in A$$ of Indian Navy...

Money and also years of hands on experience which pakistan doesn't has????

2-3 billion USD is not big money, (If they buy chinese they can get it cheaper, may be 1-1.5 bilion USD) . We didn't had Nuclear submarine experience didn't we gain it on russian Akula??? Pakistani will gather the experience on Vrayag..

 

[tjpf]

thats what i said in my post "only a mixture great strategy, awesome luck , surprise attack can bring a carrier down.. and even if west start making this magical weapon carrier will evolve better defense capabilities... " Stinger was a great strategy of Charlie Wilson. Afghan were fighting Gurilla war. In gurilla war not always advance technology wins...

I do agree with all your points, But can you please agree with my one point?? "CBG/ACC will rule water for atleast 20 more years "


Thats why pakistan need one CBG,.... They have good relation with Americans, if they can manage to buy one Nimitz class carrier, It will be pain in A$$ of Indian Navy...

atleast 20 more years
thats true but beyond that doubtful maybe a better evolved different platform i guess would come into the picture.....and as i said earlier pak has no hands on exp on ACC so if they do acquire ACC and feel confident to play with it India and the world would have moved on!!!!!!!!!!!

They have good relation with Americans

ROTFLOL stop it i give up u are correct I SUBMIT MASTER

 

[Markus]

thats what i said in my post "only a mixture great strategy, awesome luck , surprise attack can bring a carrier down.. and even if west start making this magical weapon carrier will evolve better defense capabilities... " Stinger was a great strategy of Charlie Wilson. Afghan were fighting Gurilla war. In gurilla war not always advance technology wins...

I do agree with all your points, But can you please agree with my one point?? "CBG/ACC will rule water for atleast 20 more years "


Thats why pakistan need one CBG,.... They have good relation with Americans, if they can manage to buy one Nimitz class carrier, It will be pain in A$$ of Indian Navy...



2-3 billion USD is not big money, (If they buy chinese they can get it cheaper, may be 1-1.5 bilion USD) . We didn't had Nuclear submarine experience didn't we gain it on russian Akula??? Pakistani will gather the experience on Vrayag..

DO you know the price of a Nimitz class carrier ???

 

[madooxno9]

jesus...comments on that videos are just .....

 

[tjpf]

thats what i said in my post "only a mixture great strategy, awesome luck , surprise attack can bring a carrier down.. and even if west start making this magical weapon carrier will evolve better defense capabilities... " Stinger was a great strategy of Charlie Wilson. Afghan were fighting Gurilla war. In gurilla war not always advance technology wins...

I do agree with all your points, But can you please agree with my one point?? "CBG/ACC will rule water for atleast 20 more years "


Thats why pakistan need one CBG,.... They have good relation with Americans, if they can manage to buy one Nimitz class carrier, It will be pain in A$$ of Indian Navy...



2-3 billion USD is not big money, (If they buy chinese they can get it cheaper, may be 1-1.5 bilion USD) . We didn't had Nuclear submarine experience didn't we gain it on russian Akula??? Pakistani will gather the experience on Vrayag..

What about the cost to maintain and run CBG also when you buy an ACC you gotta buy the goodys that comes along with it planes, destroyers , subs, etc..............

 

[Vibs]

@#@Topic: Pakistan do need a CBG. Ppl claim here that Pakistan small coastal line don't need good navy... All bullshit.. small coastal line is bane for Pakistan... What if Indian navy block Pakistan coast??? sitting 500+ km away Indian carriers/super-carriers/CBG can put Embargo on Pakistan... Pakistan can't get resources from west (Iran and afghan border), East border will be shilded by Indian army, Water is shielded by Indian navy..


So moral of story is " To keep its waterline clean, supply uninterrupted, Pakistan need better navy, and nothing is better than CBG"..

A good navy does not need to include an ACC. Most targets of the Indian ACC will be near land where they would be in the range of the PAF. Advantage of multiple fronts of aerial warfare will be with India but thats about it. Else the targets will be restricted to the Pakistan Navy. Even if the Pakistani Navy had an ACC, it will have to be stationed near the coastline or along side a whole range of escort vessels and subs. Pakistan can invest the same amount of money to develop advanced subs which are one of the biggest threats to ACC's.