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does israel have the right to exist?

should israel have been created?


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what does this have to do with thread topic???
why do you guys always go off topic when you are proven wrong??
what you mean by you guys sir ? i was thinking i am not part of any group . why you hiding behind a topic which worth 0.0000$ while look how many killed in Pakistan worth infinity$
 
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This half truth has been repeated too many times without glossing over some important details.

Yes the Arabs rejected the 1947 partition plan but they did so because the Partition plan was unfair to the Arabs.

The Partition plan allotted 56% of the land to Israel even though Jews made up at best 30% of the population in 1946.

The Jewish population of Palestine increased greatly in the late 19th and early 20th century because of Ottoman and later British administrators encouraged immigration of jews from Europe against the will of the native Arab population.

Jewish & Non-Jewish Population of Israel/Palestine (1517-Present) | Jewish Virtual Library

Even after this immigration jews still did not make up close to the majority of the population of Palestine in the 1940s.

At the time, the British Mandate of Palestine was divided into districts.

In 1946, Of the 16 districts in the Mandate of Palestine west of the Jordan river, 14 of them, including Jerusalem, had an Arab majority. One district, Haifa, had an Arab plurality. The only district that had a Jewish majority was Jaffa.




Sometimes zionists claim that the creation of Israel was justified because the Jewish immigrants bought the land in Palestine.
This is disingenuous because in 1945, Jews did not own the majority of the land in any of the 16 districts.

In 1945, 4 of the districts had Arabs owning a plurality of the land and in the remaining 12 districts Arabs owned the majority of the land.

...


So if you ever hear why Arabs rejected the partition plan you should know why, as you can see it was clearly unfair to them as it dispossessed them of the land that was theirs.

No use arguying with me, the time was the late 40s, and the place was the UN.
They did not convince the UN.

Maybe they did not prepare any reasonable counter proposal. Wasn't borne at the time.

The creation of a state does not dispossess anyone of a piece of land.
 
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No use arguying with me, the time was the late 40s, and the place was the UN.
They did not convince the UN.

Maybe they did not prepare any reasonable counter proposal. Wasn't borne at the time.

The creation of a state does not dispossess anyone of a piece of land.
Lol this is called double standard. They have a single argument you gave more land to Israel then to Palestine even though Jews weren't in majority. How hard is that to understand?
 
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This half truth has been repeated too many times without glossing over some important details.

Yes the Arabs rejected the 1947 partition plan but they did so because the Partition plan was unfair to the Arabs.

The Partition plan allotted 56% of the land to Israel even though Jews made up at best 30% of the population in 1946.

The Jewish population of Palestine increased greatly in the late 19th and early 20th century because of Ottoman and later British administrators encouraged immigration of jews from Europe against the will of the native Arab population.

Jewish & Non-Jewish Population of Israel/Palestine (1517-Present) | Jewish Virtual Library

Even after this immigration jews still did not make up close to the majority of the population of Palestine in the 1940s.

At the time, the British Mandate of Palestine was divided into districts.

In 1946, Of the 16 districts in the Mandate of Palestine west of the Jordan river, 14 of them, including Jerusalem, had an Arab majority. One district, Haifa, had an Arab plurality. The only district that had a Jewish majority was Jaffa.

Map4_Population.gif



Sometimes zionists claim that the creation of Israel was justified because the Jewish immigrants bought the land in Palestine.
This is disingenuous because in 1945, Jews did not own the majority of the land in any of the 16 districts.

In 1945, 4 of the districts had Arabs owning a plurality of the land and in the remaining 12 districts Arabs owned the majority of the land.

m0094.jpg



So if you ever hear why Arabs rejected the partition plan you should know why, as you can see it was clearly unfair to them as it dispossessed them of the land that was theirs.



Simple question.


Was 47 deal better than 67?
Was 67 deal better than 93?
Was 93 deal better than 2014?



Why it is that one must live in the past.

Time flows fast.

Time to fill the bucket NOW

otherwise your bucket will be empty tomorrow.

Hope you understand this.
 
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The missiles fired at Israel gives Israel right of self-defense.
The missiles are clearly a war-crime when fired at cities.

Any response must be "proportional" to military gains.
As far as I know, there is no definition what "proportional" means.
Looking at the sum of the casualties is wrong. You have to look at each and every incident.

If a missile is located in a building, and there is 1 civilian there,
I guess it is likely to be OK to bomb without this being considered a war crime.
(remember that presence of civilians does not protect a military target, according to Geneva convention)
If destroying a large building with 5000 civilians dead, then most likely it is not proportional.
If you ask for the limit, (66 killed OK/67 killed not OK) noone knows.

Facts does not matter as much as perceived facts. if Israel has proof (which later turns out to be false)
then it is a mistake, and not a war crime.

Civilians have very little protection under the Geneva convention.
You cannot determine if any specific death of a civilian is acceptable
collateral damage (military significance of target high), a mistake or a war crime
before a thorough investigation has been made by a non biased organisation.

I will not criticize nor condone any such operation, until such investigation has taken place.

What I do believe is that no good will come from either missiles or bombing, and both have to stop.

The blockade, occupation of land, what gives Israel the right to do that?
 
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Simple question.


Was 47 deal better than 67?
Was 67 deal better than 93?
Was 93 deal better than 2014?



Why it is that one must live in the past.

Time flows fast.

Time to fill the bucket NOW

otherwise your bucket will be empty tomorrow.

Hope you understand this.
100 jooty bhi khao or 100 onions bhi ab

The blockade, occupation of land, what gives Israel the right to do that?
they are getting more power remember when last flight lands at gaza airport?
 
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Imo palestine should forsake violence and start mandela/gandhi type non violence movement .Half a century of violence got them nowhere..no arabs will help them.These rockets strikes are useless pinpricks on israel..maybe kills some civilians but does nothing to israel military except serve as justification for retaliation in which 100 times worse suffering happens to palestinians.In non-violence movement israel will have to literally mow down unarmed guys without rocket attacks as justification.this will create world condemnation and not be seen as defence against terrorist attacks.One more thing they need to realise is they need to divorce the issue from religion...make it humanitarian and not religious issue.Anyone afraid of islamic extremism will naturally support israel,due to their struggle with muslims.It doesn't help when religious leaders declare fatwas and said we will annihilate israel and unfurl flag and so so on jerusalem.These are unrealistic rants which doesn't serve palestinian cause and aligns palestinian cause with islamic extremism in world view.Palestinian need to understand 2 things-one israel won't go away and they'll never be able to match israel militarily.The best thing to strive for is a 2 state solution where their children can grow up with dignity and security..their main goal right now shouldn't be destruction of israel which is a fantasy but rather stopping expansion of israeli settlements.
Second thing they need to understand is only thing that will change current status quo is world opinion,nothing else.They need to clearly communicate to the world this is not a religious struggle but a humanitarian issue for survival..and that we are fighting for the right to live in dignity for our kids..thats all.Of course they will have to make compromises to get peace..but u have to begin somewhere.Right now way they are going they have no future litearlly..

Possibly the best post I have seen on PDF regarding the conflict and its resolution
 
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we does the united states have to do with the existence of israel??
because of the bible connection??
we are muslims and so are the plaestinians.. stick to topic don't derail the thread and resort to your usual tactics when you can't win a argument.
You think I care about 'winning' this argument ?

I know what the Muslims want: the continuation and finalization of Hitler's Final Solution regarding the Jews.

You can hide behind the Israelis-Palestinians conflict, AIPAC, neocons, and so on. But it is revealing that you have a problem with the creation of Israel in particular but not the creation of the ME in general. You think there are no conflicts during and after the many partitions that created today's Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Libya, etc ? Use this infidel invention called 'the Internet' and find out the details for yourself. Else use an older invention called the 'library'. Iraq was created in 1919 by infidels via the League of Nations after a Muslim empire -- the Ottoman Empire -- was defeated and carved up. Why are YOU not angry for that ? Today, the word 'Ottoman' is used to denote a piece of furniture in the West.

The Muslims have no problems accepting those post WW II partitions as time passed, only the presence of the Jews give them fits, even as far away as Pakistan and Iran. The Mongols killed so much Persians that historians estimated that it took up to the 20th century for Iran to recover the lost population. Do we see Iranians rage at Mongolia ? No, but the Jews in the ME with their own country ? Allah forbid and Iranian youths gladly give the Nazi salute as insult to injury to the Jews.

Most Americans support the two-states solution but only if those borders are enforceable. The Israelis can enforce their side of the borders. But WILL the Muslims enforce theirs ? The actions of the PA, Hamas, and Hezbollah said unequivocally: No. Not that they cannot, but that they WILL NOT. The Egypt-Israel treaty of 1979 proved that Muslims and Jews can live in peace, no matter how unfriendly, if the will is there. But here we see Pakistani Muslims living in their own country, with its own internal issues, over 3200 km away is worrying about Jews in Israel.

Like it or not, Muslims like YOU who probably never met a Jew in his life contributed to the current conflict between the Muslims and Jews. Not Palestinians and Israelis. But Muslims and Jews.
 
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Israel is a reality. It does not really matter whether you support the process by which the Jewish state was created some 66-67 years ago. The bottom line is that Israel is here to stay. So it is in everyone's interest that Israel's right of existence is accepted and get the best deal for Palestine and its people within that framework. No one can go back in history and undo the creation of Israel.
 
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You think I care about 'winning' this argument ?

I know what the Muslims want: the continuation and finalization of Hitler's Final Solution regarding the Jews.

You can hide behind the Israelis-Palestinians conflict, AIPAC, neocons, and so on. But it is revealing that you have a problem with the creation of Israel in particular but not the creation of the ME in general. You think there are no conflicts during and after the many partitions that created today's Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Libya, etc ? Use this infidel invention called 'the Internet' and find out the details for yourself. Else use an older invention called the 'library'. Iraq was created in 1919 by infidels via the League of Nations after a Muslim empire -- the Ottoman Empire -- was defeated and carved up. Why are YOU not angry for that ? Today, the word 'Ottoman' is used to denote a piece of furniture in the West.

The Muslims have no problems accepting those post WW II partitions as time passed, only the presence of the Jews give them fits, even as far away as Pakistan and Iran. The Mongols killed so much Persians that historians estimated that it took up to the 20th century for Iran to recover the lost population. Do we see Iranians rage at Mongolia ? No, but the Jews in the ME with their own country ? Allah forbid and Iranian youths gladly give the Nazi salute as insult to injury to the Jews.

Most Americans support the two-states solution but only if those borders are enforceable. The Israelis can enforce their side of the borders. But WILL the Muslims enforce theirs ? The actions of the PA, Hamas, and Hezbollah said unequivocally: No. Not that they cannot, but that they WILL NOT. The Egypt-Israel treaty of 1979 proved that Muslims and Jews can live in peace, no matter how unfriendly, if the will is there. But here we see Pakistani Muslims living in their own country, with its own internal issues, over 3200 km away is worrying about Jews in Israel.

Like it or not, Muslims like YOU who probably never met a Jew in his life contributed to the current conflict between the Muslims and Jews. Not Palestinians and Israelis. But Muslims and Jews.
stop it with all the conspiracy theories with muslims…your supposedly a professional so behave like one…. because if the security of our country depends on people like you then we in very bad hands… we already have enough racist rednecks..
back to topic everything you said completely off topic if you want to discuss it open a new thread and ill try my best to teach u a lesson.
 
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stop it with all the conspiracy theories with muslims…your supposedly a professional so behave like one…. because if the security of our country depends on people like you then we in very bad hands… we already have enough racist rednecks..
back to topic everything you said completely off topic if you want to discuss it open a new thread and ill try my best to teach u a lesson.

your post improved a bit.

Looks like your fast got broken :-)
 
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Israel is a reality. It does not really matter whether you support the process by which the Jewish state was created some 66-67 years ago. The bottom line is that Israel is here to stay. So it is in everyone's interest that Israel's right of existence is accepted and get the best deal for Palestine and its people within that framework. No one can go back in history and undo the creation of Israel.
That is true. But Pakistani Muslims, the ones living comfortably and safely in Pakistan and the US, will gladly sacrifice blood sugar on their keyboards to call in question the legitimacy of Jews to exist in the first place, let alone the existence of Israel.
 
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Israel is a reality. It does not really matter whether you support the process by which the Jewish state was created some 66-67 years ago. The bottom line is that Israel is here to stay. So it is in everyone's interest that Israel's right of existence is accepted and get the best deal for Palestine and its people within that framework. No one can go back in history and undo the creation of Israel.


I know it is going to burn the heck out of my fellow countrymen who so $tupidly support Hummass. Here is the link

Israel is here to stay for a long long time - InshaAllah


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