do you think it is a good idea to integrate Pakistan and China

[Vinod2070]

I agree. Introspection never harmed anyone.

It should be done by all parties. India being the biggest in the region can sure do with more of it.

 

[Kasrkin]

Pakistan has a morbid fear that India is out to get it at the first opportunity and that perception is what I talked of.

That would be your idea of a 'perception' for obvious reasons (India can do no bad and has modest defense expenditure, etc) but most people consider it a reality. Given the number of times India has deployed armies at our doorstep only to be forced to withdraw, I think people have been repeatedly assured of this fact now.

 

[Vinod2070]

OK, in the context of this thread, let's say that this fact becomes less of an issue if the merger happens.

 

[karnivore]

Well, truth be told, Pakistan is to China, what India was to Russia, during the cold war era - a mere pawn on the international political chessboard. China has its own agenda, while Pakistan its own, and India happens to be a common ground.

Personal anecdotes about friendly Chinese, really don't add any insight about how the government of China is viewing Pakistan. For that matter, here in Calcutta, there is an area called Tangra, which is Calcuatta's very own China town, where one would find the most friendliest of people around. But, then again, personal relationship between citizens, means nothing in diplomatic arena.

Regarding the OP, integration of China and Pakistan is absurd for more reasons than one.

 

[Fennecus]

We are better off as independent countries.

 

[Vinod2070]

^^ You are right. Not gonna happen soon. Its just a hypothetical scenario being discussed.

I am not sure Pakistan separated from India to become a part of China!

 

[kenchabhai]

I believe there should be no nations and no boundaries and no part of earth should be denied to any man or animal (Hum insaan saara jahaan hamara). Having said that, I don't think either would agree to this proposal.

 

[Omar1984]

There is no smoke without fire, I am sure Pakistan has good reasons to believe "India is out to get it". I've read posts in this forum from people from several countries including Sri Lanka and Bangladesh they all feel the same.

Perhaps, it is time for some Indian introspection if India is interested in friendly relations with its neighbors. The same applies to the US ..why are we hated by so many?

U.S. cant be compared to what India has done. Let me tell you something about our neighbor, the Indians.

1947: Partition, Millions die. Ferozpur, before partition was a Muslim majority district, now in India, Muslims are extinct in that district because hindus/sikhs killed them all when Muslims of that district were trying to cross into Pakistan.

1948: First war over Kashmir. India occupies 2/3 of Kashmir and promises a plebiscite to the Kashmiris but never holds up to its promise.

1965: Indian troops violate international borders and crosses into Pakistani territory and invades the Pakistani city Lahore. Pakistani troops then chase the Indians out.

1971: Indian troops violate international borders again crosses into East Pakistan, breaks Pakistan, and creates Bangladesh.

1998: Indians test their nuclear missiles and when successfully tests its missiles threatens to wipe Pakistan off the map. Pakistan shortly successfully tested its missiles and shut the Indians up.

2008: Indian Airforce violates Pakistani Airspace and our Pakistani Airforce quickly chase Indian Airforce out.

And now India has made their prescence in Afghanistan.

What would any country feel about its neighbor if they had a neighbor like that?

As for U.S., Pakistan always had a good relationship with U.S. but this recent airstrikes into Pakistani territory killing innocent Pakistani men, women, and children had made a bad image of U.S. in Pakistan. Pakistanis have suffered enough throughout history.

 

[Vinod2070]

A very self-serving and one sided account.

Look at the population of Lahore before partition for a start. Guess who owned all those businesses. What was the culture of the city.

What is it now?

What happened to the non-Muslim population of Pakistan? It was almost complete ethnic cleansing with non-Muslims reduced to a paltry 3-4% in the country now (and decreasing every year).

You can't even begin to compare it with the ever increasing population of minorities in India!

the rest is similarly one sided with no account of the genocide perpetrated in Eastern Pakistan (one of the worst in history and surely the worst after WW-2)!

No mention of the support to terror that took such a toll of innocent Kashmiris either!

 

[Omar1984]

Lahore was not hindu majority like Ferozpur was Muslim majority, and you Indians didnt even let the Muslims of Ferozpur cross into Pakistan, we Pakistanis let so many hindus/sikhs cross into India. Pakistan was Muslim majority region for hundreds of years so was Ferozpur and it was supposed to be part of Pakistan but your Nehru was in bed with the British.

As for Bangladesh, theres no proof of any violation of human rights it cant be compared to human right violations going on in Indian Occupied Kashmir by Indian soldiers.
If Pakistan even crosses into Indian Occupied Kashmir to help the Kashmiris from the brutal attacks by Indian army..it cant be comapred to East Pakistan, now Bangladesh. Kashmir is Line of Control, there is no international boundary. Indians violated the international borders and came into East Pakistan and broke the country.

Now tell me why Pakistan should trust the Indians? Look at all the violations they have done throughout history against Pakistan.

 

[Vinod2070]

Lahore was not hindu majority like Ferozpur was Muslim majority, and you Indians didnt even let the Muslims of Ferozpur cross into Pakistan, we Pakistanis let so many hindus/sikhs cross into India. Pakistan was Muslim majority region for hundreds of years so was Ferozpur and it was supposed to be part of Pakistan but your Nehru was in bed with the British.

It had many more Hindu-Sikhs than the Muslims in Ferozepur any given day! It was the largest city of Punjab, one that got it's name from Luv, the son of Lord Rama. Where the Hindu-Sikhs dominated all walks of life and business and culture.

You are wrong when you say that let people cross into India (as is a big favor done by uprooting people from their ancient land). There were trains and trains of dead bodies coming into India. In Lahore 100,000 non-Muslims were closed behind gates and set to fire with crazy mobs not allowing them to come out of that ghastly fire.

I don't know what you mean by "supposed to be part of Pakistan"! "Supposed to" by whom? The British were responsible for the division of the country and the bloody partition.

Read some neutral books instead of believing the one sided stories.

As for Bangladesh, theres no proof of any violation of human rights it cant be compared to human right violations going on in Indian Occupied Kashmir by Indian soldiers.
If Pakistan even crosses into Indian Occupied Kashmir to help the Kashmiris from the brutal attacks by Indian army..it cant be comapred to East Pakistan, now Bangladesh. Kashmir is Line of Control, there is no international boundary. Indians violated the international borders and came into East Pakistan and broke the country.

Go to the Bangladesh genocide thread and you will find ample proof. There are several websites which also provide comprehensive proof of the atrocities that occurred which were supported by your countrymen and for which not a single person has been punished so far!

Even if we believe the figure of 90,000 deaths in Kashmir (most of which are by Pakistani terrorists blowing up civilians), it is not even a small fraction of the 3 million figure for Bangladesh.

Now tell me why Pakistan should trust the Indians? Look at all the violations they have done throughout history against Pakistan.

Your choice. For us, it is Pakistan that needs to establish it's credentials for trust after Kargil and the endless series of terror attacks coming from Pakistan and directed towards India mainly but also Afghanistan and also UK and other countries. Your president Musharraf admitted that every terror attack in the world has a Pakistani footprint!

 

[Omar1984]

It had many more Hindu-Sikhs than the Muslims in Ferozepur any given day! It was the largest city of Punjab, one that got it's name from Luv, the son of Lord Rama. Where the Hindu-Sikhs dominated all walks of life and business and culture.

You're wrong. Before Partition, more than 50% of Lahore's population was Muslim, the rest were Hindus, Sikhs, and Christians...many Hindus and Sikhs left for India after partition but Christians decided to stay. Ferozpur was also more than 50% Muslim..you can check anywhere on the internet.

You are wrong when you say that let people cross into India (as is a big favor done by uprooting people from their ancient land). There were trains and trains of dead bodies coming into India. In Lahore 100,000 non-Muslims were closed behind gates and set to fire with crazy mobs not allowing them to come out of that ghastly fire.

Where did you get that info from? From some hindu website? There's still some Hindus and Sikhs living in Lahore. Why isn't there any Muslims in Ferozpur, which once had over half the population Muslim because hindus/sikhs killed them all, raped the girls, and forced some to convert into sikhism/hinduism.

I don't know what you mean by "supposed to be part of Pakistan"! "Supposed to" by whom? The British were responsible for the division of the country and the bloody partition.

We all know your Nehru was very close with British. If British made Muslim Majority regions of North West British India and Bengal part of Pakistan, as it should have, we wouldn't be fighting today.

Go to the Bangladesh genocide thread and you will find ample proof. There are several websites which also provide comprehensive proof of the atrocities that occurred which were supported by your countrymen and for which not a single person has been punished so far!

I'm not going to visit any Indian sponsored website. Everyone knows India's propoganda against Pakistan.

Even if we believe the figure of 90,000 deaths in Kashmir (most of which are by Pakistani terrorists blowing up civilians), it is not even a small fraction of the 3 million figure for Bangladesh.

Again Indian propoganda. How can a few thousand troops kill 3 million people in Bangladesh? Indian bullcrap!

Your choice. For us, it is Pakistan that needs to establish it's credentials for trust after Kargil and the endless series of terror attacks coming from Pakistan and directed towards India mainly but also Afghanistan and also UK and other countries.

Dont bring any other country into this. You Indians wonder why you have problems with each and every neighbor of yours. China, Pakistan, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Burma, and Bangladesh all hate India.

Pakistanis crossing Line of Control into Kargil is way different than Indians crossing into INTERNATIONAL BORDERS twice, once into Lahore and second time into East Pakistan and breaking the country. No Pakistani will ever forget what India has done.
If Pakistanis hear Kashmiris suffering, being tortured, killed, raped by Indian police and they cross into Line of Control to help Kashmiris its our duty because Kashmir is a disputed territory between India and Pakistan. East Pakistan, now Bangladesh, was not a disputed territory it was recognized as part of Pakistan by entire world and India violated the international law crossed into borders and broke the country and they are trying to do it again in our western provinces because these leeches have made their prescence in Afghanistan.

 

[Vinod2070]

You're wrong. Before Partition, more than 50% of Lahore's population was Muslim, the rest were Hindus, Sikhs, and Christians...many Hindus and Sikhs left for India after partition but Christians decided to stay. Ferozpur was also more than 50% Muslim..you can check anywhere on the internet.

I didn't dispute this. Even 45 % of Lahore's Hindu Sikh population would be more than any majority Muslim population in Ferozepur.

Where did you get that info from? From some hindu website? There's still some Hindus and Sikhs living in Lahore. Why isn't there any Muslims in Ferozpur, which once had over half the population Muslim because hindus/sikhs killed them all, raped the girls, and forced some to convert into sikhism/hinduism.

Some Hindus and Sikhs doesn't mean that hundreds of thousand were not killed or made to leave their ancestral homeland.

We all know your Nehru was very close with British. If British made Muslim Majority regions of North West British India and Bengal part of Pakistan, as it should have, we wouldn't be fighting today.

The British divided the country as per some parameters that have been discussed elsewhere. Let's not go too deep into them now. Suffice to say that both sides had major misgivings with the final award and that points to them being equally fair or unfair to both.

I'm not going to visit any Indian sponsored website. Everyone knows India's propoganda against Pakistan.

I am talking of Banladeshi websites and threads on this very forum. Not looking doesn't take way the reality.

Again Indian propoganda. How can a few thousand troops kill 3 million people in Bangladesh? Indian bullcrap!

This has been shown to be crap by a Bangladeshi website on another forum thread. Try that.

Dont bring any other country into this. You Indians wonder why you have problems with each and every neighbor of yours. China, Pakistan, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Burma, and Bangladesh all hate India.

Pakistanis crossing Line of Control into Kargil is way different than Indians crossing into INTERNATIONAL BORDERS twice, once into Lahore and second time into East Pakistan and breaking the country. No Pakistani will ever forget what India has done.
If Pakistanis hear Kashmiris suffering, being tortured, killed, raped by Indian police and they cross into Line of Control to help Kashmiris its our duty because Kashmir is a disputed territory between India and Pakistan. East Pakistan, now Bangladesh, was not a disputed territory it was recognized as part of Pakistan by entire world and India violated the international law crossed into borders and broke the country and they are trying to do it again in our western provinces because these leeches have made their prescence in Afghanistan.

That was not the first time in history that a country invaded another country! Nor the last.

There were very genuine reasons for what happened in 1971 from India POV. The genocide and the presence of 10 million refugees being in India being the main ones.

 

[notorious_eagle]

China needs to import more from Pakistan . The balance of trade between these two close friends is too one sided at the moment

Source dailytimes.com.pk
According to details regarding the bilateral trade, Pakistan has been unable to benefit the trade with its friendly neighbour China as Pakistan has suffered a trade deficit of $7.552 billion during the last four fiscal years (2003-2007). During the last four years Pakistan’s total exports to China amounted to $1.682 billion as against the imports from China worth $9.233 billion during 2003-07.

You are right, Chinese need to import more but what Pakistan has to offer China can produce it domestically much cheaper. The reason why Pakistan is importing more from China is because their goods are extremely cheap, its very profitable to import goods from China and sell them at a higher price inside Pakistan.

 

[notsuperstitious]

U.S. cant be compared to what India has done. Let me tell you something about our neighbor, the Indians.

1947: Partition, Millions die. Ferozpur, before partition was a Muslim majority district, now in India, Muslims are extinct in that district because hindus/sikhs killed them all when Muslims of that district were trying to cross into Pakistan.

Partition was pakistan's idea, direct action day that started the riots were pakistan's idea, bahawalpur riots happened in pakistan not india, majority of muslims on indian soil stayed on in india, majority of hindu - sikhs in pakistani soil were 'cajoled' to leave. read some non religious books some time.

1948: First war over Kashmir. India occupies 2/3 of Kashmir and promises a plebiscite to the Kashmiris but never holds up to its promise.

Pakistan attacked independent J&K first, are u denying it??? besides india's annexation kashmir ir legal as per the mountbatten plan agreed to by muslim league. pakistan also made promises during simla accord on the changed realities in kashmir but refuse to keep their word.

1965: Indian troops violate international borders and crosses into Pakistani territory and invades the Pakistani city Lahore. Pakistani troops then chase the Indians out.

This is getting weirder. ever read about operation gibralter? i suggest u do from some neutral sources. oh i forgot the whle world is out to get u fellers these days.

1971: Indian troops violate international borders again crosses into East Pakistan, breaks Pakistan, and creates Bangladesh.

pakistan's internal problems spilled into india. technically pakistan airforce attacked indian airfields first

1998: Indians test their nuclear missiles and when successfully tests its missiles threatens to wipe Pakistan off the map. Pakistan shortly successfully tested its missiles and shut the Indians up.

i suppose u mean nuclear tests. bachche, india tested its first nuclear devise back in 1972 ur ignorance is heartening

2008: Indian Airforce violates Pakistani Airspace and our Pakistani Airforce quickly chase Indian Airforce out.

grow up

And now India has made their prescence in Afghanistan.

??? i suppose u grow up. pakistan does not own afghanistan, it only has the imperialist ambition.