Side-Winder
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Do you support Operation Zarb-e-Azb
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Zarvan
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Yes you will not have anything different from this operation the problem would be still their may increase but not decrease Mr you will see soon
Side-Winder
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as if the so called peace talks could solve it!
Osama Ali_16
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The operation is going successful and the local people are guided to leave their locations because a big battle is about to began !
40% improvement is something that would be welcome. There is no option but to put pressure on the TTP and bring them down from their high horse into a meaningful negotiation. As I have said before, till now with their murderous campaign, they think they are equal to the GoP. For as long as this perception exists in the minds of these people, there won't be any settlement for the long term.
Also if hindsight does not betray me, had the Army not gone into the tribal areas to stop the ingress/egress of the militants from/to Afghanistan, ISAF/US would have put boots on the ground in the FATA. The option in 2004 was either Pakistan went in or outsiders were going to come and go as they pleased.
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I understand Islam has no concept of nation state. However lets realize that we live in a day and age where such concept does exist and we have to deal with it within these confines. One cannot wish it away just because it is not supposed to exist. It does and all Muslim majority counties are dealing with this concept including Pakistan and Afghanistan.
Also this concept of betrayal of Muslims cannot be one-sided. How about the betrayal of the non-Pashtuns who have been killed by the thousands at the hands of Pashtun Taliban? Are the non-Pashtuns in Afghanistan not Muslims and not deserving of the caring and consideration as ordained by Allah and His messenger (pbuh)? What about their betrayal and killings?
Secondly, contrary to the populist rhetoric peddled by some elements to the right, Pakistani governments have done their best possible by balancing their responsibilities towards the UN resolutions for Afghanistan while trying to manage the relations with Taliban. Had Pakistan gone all out against the Taliban in 2004, there would have been no way for the Taliban to sustain their campaign. I know for some this may come across as rather direct, but the point is that the military led government of the day did what it possibly could. Unlike Egypt shutting the doors on Hamas, all Pakistani governments have balanced the consideration that Afghanistan has been forcefully occupied and people will resist it. But then the GoP has also its responsibilities towards UN obligations which include supporting the resolutions calling for the ouster of those who supported the 9/11 attacks.
Musharraf is a punching bag because he provides a nice outlet for people's frustration. A single body to dump all the blame on to without realizing that any other leader/civilian or military would have been faced with the same dilemma.
Menace2Society
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Musharraf was not tactful enough. For example he raided Lal Masjid without building public sentiment first. Pak has learned a lot from that episode.
To do something on a national scale you have to explain to the public first and get their approval.
People like say NS has been a failure in govt but look at his performance now. He has done deals, taken military action and is proactively addressing shortcomings. He understands business and the climate of business. If he can deliver peace time in the country then it can grow at 7%.
Musharraf borrowed until he left Pak in IMF. 4 years of boom followed by never ending bust. Most of his decisions lacked rationale. Its treason level but it is incompetent.
This is why we when this operation finishes they need to statement to the world, an open for business advertisement. A national event. Something that will hit the headlines. I would prefer a full military parade to mark military dominance over every area of Pak. This will be a first in its history.
To do something on a national scale you have to explain to the public first and get their approval.
People like say NS has been a failure in govt but look at his performance now. He has done deals, taken military action and is proactively addressing shortcomings. He understands business and the climate of business. If he can deliver peace time in the country then it can grow at 7%.
Musharraf borrowed until he left Pak in IMF. 4 years of boom followed by never ending bust. Most of his decisions lacked rationale. Its treason level but it is incompetent.
This is why we when this operation finishes they need to statement to the world, an open for business advertisement. A national event. Something that will hit the headlines. I would prefer a full military parade to mark military dominance over every area of Pak. This will be a first in its history.
niaz
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One can see from the posts that the extremist section of the society has infiltrated this august forum as well.
It is no doubt true that in Islam all Ummah is equal and there are no state boundaries. However, when people quote this, they forget that we cannot recreate another ‘Khilafat Rashidah’. This is because the cleansing of Soul that occurred thru the companionship of our holy Prophet (PBUH) cannot be repeated. Despite the fact that Amir Muwayiah was also a ‘Sehabi’, he laid the foundation of a ‘Hereditary’ Omayyad kingdon. All the Abbasi Khaifas were also hereditary kings. I ask the so called pundits of religion, does Islam allow ‘Hereditary’ khilafat?
All Wahhabi/Takfiri/Salafi followers take their lead from Saudi Arabia; bastion of the extremist Wahhabi Islam and the people who sided with the kafir English against the Ottoman Khalifa! Conveniently, these bigots forgot about teaching of Islam that you don't side with the kafirs against Muslim brothers.
I ask all the bigots who call Taliban their brothers and provide direct or indirect support to the Taliban butchers, try entering Saudi Arabia or Kuwait or Qatar and see how you are treated. Islamic universal state disappeared with the Khilafat Rashidah and unless Hazrat Omar ibne Khattab ( RA) is reborn, it will not be recreated.
The fact of the matter is that anti-Pakistan forces who campaigned against the birth of Pakistan, have been working to destroy Pakistan from the very first day. Many of new generation are Pakistani by birth but there the relationship ends. This mind-set is direct result of brainwashing by the bigots of Jamaat Islami, Al-Qaida and Takfiri madrassahs mushroomed thru out Pakistan. These forces will not rest until Pakistan is destroyed. This is in fact a ‘Fitna’ and should be treated as such.
I repeat, primary enemy of Pakistan is the from within. Here an article in the Dawn of today reflecting ground realities in Pakistan.
The enemy within
I.A. REHMAN
The writer is a director of the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan (HRCP).
HANDERY Masih, the Balochistan provincial assembly member who was shot dead last Saturday, and his assassin, Ghulam Mohiuddin, of the Balochistan Levies, roughly represent the forces that are locked in a deadly combat, and the outcome will define tomorrow’s Pakistan.
Let us first identify the characters.
Handery Masih was a secular democrat and an activist. A Christian among Muslims he threw his lot with the Balochistan Student Organisation, whose secular, nationalist credentials are no secret, and rose to be its top leader.
Several religious seminaries all over Balochistan have greatly influenced the thinking of the young generation.
His passion for the socio-economic development of his people, the Christian community in particular, guided him to Lahore to join a civil society organisation’s (South Asia Partnership) programme for training community-based groups’ leadership. Back home he joined the National Party, and not a denominational outfit, and did well enough to earn a seat in the provincial assembly.
Thus Handery joined the forces that are striving to realise the goal of a secular, democratic Pakistan, in which all citizens, regardless of belief or domicile, are not only guaranteed equal rights but are also ready to struggle for achieving them. For all those who are guided by reason and humankind’s history this is the only path to Pakistan’s becoming a modern, civilised and responsible state.
The other contender, Ghulam Mohiuddin, supports the forces that reject secularism, democracy and human rights. They do not grant the religious and sectarian minorities, as well as women, any rights beyond some meaningless concessions available to second-class citizens. These forces are using violence against both the state and the people to capture power and then impose on the whole population a harsh regime based on narrow exclusivism.
It is possible that those charged with investigating the murder, and we have little trust in their efficiency and freedom from communal/sectarian biases, will attribute the crime to a petty dispute and the peculiar working of the tribal mind. But it can be shown that in a highly intolerant society, such as the one Pakistan has become, belief is a significant factor in determining the course of a quarrel in which one of the parties belongs to a religious/sectarian minority.
The consciousness that the other fellow belongs to a disadvantaged group emboldens the offender to reject all legal and moral constraints on his behaviour. Religious intolerance legitimises murder to a greater extent than class or ethnic distinction. The possibility that Ghulam Mohiuddin, consciously or unconsciously, believed that his quarry deserved to be killed for being an infidel cannot be ruled out.
This calls for serious reflection on two aspects of the matter.
The first issue is communalisation of the Balochistan society. Till some years ago, Balochistan was universally respected for its tolerance of religious, ethnic and cultural divergences. The religious-political parties did have a slightly different agenda than democratic/nationalist parties but they won seats in elections largely on the strength of their educational enterprises. During the Ziaul Haq period they resorted to greater exploitation of religion for politics and started religio-political agitations, such as the one against the Zikris. However, now they openly back the militants’ challenge to the state.
More important than that, the large number of religious seminaries built with foreign money all over Balochistan, especially along the Makran coast, have greatly influenced the thinking of the young generation. They have replaced their faith in pluralism with exclusivist communalism. The result is that in Panjgur girls’ education has received a terrible setback. Intolerance of non-Muslim citizens has increased and there are reports that Balochistan’s youth are learning from Punjabi terrorist outfits’ use of violence for practices such as extortion, abduction and forced conversion.
This spread of religiosity in Balochistan bodes ill for the country. The attacks on the Hazara Shia in Quetta, on the pilgrims’ caravans (at least those who are too poor to accept the Interior Minister’s advice to travel by air), and the dwindling Hindu community might increase. Indeed the wave of religious bigotry in Balochistan presents the state with a greater threat than the nationalist upsurge. If Islamabad wants to save the federation it must find ways of reversing Balochistan’s drift towards intolerance.
The second issue is that of extremists’ infiltration into Pakistan’s society and institutions. Everybody knows that the terrorists have their pockets of support, that they call “assets”, all over the country, especially in large cities. Those who attacked the Karachi airport are reported to have spent two days in houses close to the target. They had local friends who helped them acquire Airport Security Force uniforms, shoes, food items, medicines etc. The terrorists have their sympathisers in the government, political parties, and bureaucracy, even in the judiciary and law-enforcement agencies.
The fact that the law-enforcement agencies have been infected by the terrorists is an especially grave matter. Instances of policemen/guards killing people suspected of offences against religion have increased to an alarming level. This is the enemy within that could cause Pakistan more harm than the terrorists.
This matter has become more serious after the start of military operation in North Waziristan. The government’s answer to the terrorists’ warning is ordering a ‘red alert’ and extraordinary security measures at important sites. These measures have often failed in the past and they are unlikely to succeed now.
The principal flaw in the government’s thinking is its treatment of the religious militants’ threat as merely a law and order issue. Little has been done to answer the militants’ strategy of misleading the people with their quasi-religious rhetoric. The theory of takfir under which the clergy can declare anyone an apostate or an infidel and thus liable to be slaughtered by any Muslim has not been analysed. The licence given to militants to kill non-Muslims must be revoked. It is also necessary to liberate the religious discourse from the monopoly of extremists. This may not be possible without the government leaders’ ability to expel the friends of terrorists from their hearts.
Published in Dawn, June 19th, 2014
The enemy within - DAWN.COM
It is no doubt true that in Islam all Ummah is equal and there are no state boundaries. However, when people quote this, they forget that we cannot recreate another ‘Khilafat Rashidah’. This is because the cleansing of Soul that occurred thru the companionship of our holy Prophet (PBUH) cannot be repeated. Despite the fact that Amir Muwayiah was also a ‘Sehabi’, he laid the foundation of a ‘Hereditary’ Omayyad kingdon. All the Abbasi Khaifas were also hereditary kings. I ask the so called pundits of religion, does Islam allow ‘Hereditary’ khilafat?
All Wahhabi/Takfiri/Salafi followers take their lead from Saudi Arabia; bastion of the extremist Wahhabi Islam and the people who sided with the kafir English against the Ottoman Khalifa! Conveniently, these bigots forgot about teaching of Islam that you don't side with the kafirs against Muslim brothers.
I ask all the bigots who call Taliban their brothers and provide direct or indirect support to the Taliban butchers, try entering Saudi Arabia or Kuwait or Qatar and see how you are treated. Islamic universal state disappeared with the Khilafat Rashidah and unless Hazrat Omar ibne Khattab ( RA) is reborn, it will not be recreated.
The fact of the matter is that anti-Pakistan forces who campaigned against the birth of Pakistan, have been working to destroy Pakistan from the very first day. Many of new generation are Pakistani by birth but there the relationship ends. This mind-set is direct result of brainwashing by the bigots of Jamaat Islami, Al-Qaida and Takfiri madrassahs mushroomed thru out Pakistan. These forces will not rest until Pakistan is destroyed. This is in fact a ‘Fitna’ and should be treated as such.
I repeat, primary enemy of Pakistan is the from within. Here an article in the Dawn of today reflecting ground realities in Pakistan.
The enemy within
I.A. REHMAN
The writer is a director of the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan (HRCP).
HANDERY Masih, the Balochistan provincial assembly member who was shot dead last Saturday, and his assassin, Ghulam Mohiuddin, of the Balochistan Levies, roughly represent the forces that are locked in a deadly combat, and the outcome will define tomorrow’s Pakistan.
Let us first identify the characters.
Handery Masih was a secular democrat and an activist. A Christian among Muslims he threw his lot with the Balochistan Student Organisation, whose secular, nationalist credentials are no secret, and rose to be its top leader.
Several religious seminaries all over Balochistan have greatly influenced the thinking of the young generation.
His passion for the socio-economic development of his people, the Christian community in particular, guided him to Lahore to join a civil society organisation’s (South Asia Partnership) programme for training community-based groups’ leadership. Back home he joined the National Party, and not a denominational outfit, and did well enough to earn a seat in the provincial assembly.
Thus Handery joined the forces that are striving to realise the goal of a secular, democratic Pakistan, in which all citizens, regardless of belief or domicile, are not only guaranteed equal rights but are also ready to struggle for achieving them. For all those who are guided by reason and humankind’s history this is the only path to Pakistan’s becoming a modern, civilised and responsible state.
The other contender, Ghulam Mohiuddin, supports the forces that reject secularism, democracy and human rights. They do not grant the religious and sectarian minorities, as well as women, any rights beyond some meaningless concessions available to second-class citizens. These forces are using violence against both the state and the people to capture power and then impose on the whole population a harsh regime based on narrow exclusivism.
It is possible that those charged with investigating the murder, and we have little trust in their efficiency and freedom from communal/sectarian biases, will attribute the crime to a petty dispute and the peculiar working of the tribal mind. But it can be shown that in a highly intolerant society, such as the one Pakistan has become, belief is a significant factor in determining the course of a quarrel in which one of the parties belongs to a religious/sectarian minority.
The consciousness that the other fellow belongs to a disadvantaged group emboldens the offender to reject all legal and moral constraints on his behaviour. Religious intolerance legitimises murder to a greater extent than class or ethnic distinction. The possibility that Ghulam Mohiuddin, consciously or unconsciously, believed that his quarry deserved to be killed for being an infidel cannot be ruled out.
This calls for serious reflection on two aspects of the matter.
The first issue is communalisation of the Balochistan society. Till some years ago, Balochistan was universally respected for its tolerance of religious, ethnic and cultural divergences. The religious-political parties did have a slightly different agenda than democratic/nationalist parties but they won seats in elections largely on the strength of their educational enterprises. During the Ziaul Haq period they resorted to greater exploitation of religion for politics and started religio-political agitations, such as the one against the Zikris. However, now they openly back the militants’ challenge to the state.
More important than that, the large number of religious seminaries built with foreign money all over Balochistan, especially along the Makran coast, have greatly influenced the thinking of the young generation. They have replaced their faith in pluralism with exclusivist communalism. The result is that in Panjgur girls’ education has received a terrible setback. Intolerance of non-Muslim citizens has increased and there are reports that Balochistan’s youth are learning from Punjabi terrorist outfits’ use of violence for practices such as extortion, abduction and forced conversion.
This spread of religiosity in Balochistan bodes ill for the country. The attacks on the Hazara Shia in Quetta, on the pilgrims’ caravans (at least those who are too poor to accept the Interior Minister’s advice to travel by air), and the dwindling Hindu community might increase. Indeed the wave of religious bigotry in Balochistan presents the state with a greater threat than the nationalist upsurge. If Islamabad wants to save the federation it must find ways of reversing Balochistan’s drift towards intolerance.
The second issue is that of extremists’ infiltration into Pakistan’s society and institutions. Everybody knows that the terrorists have their pockets of support, that they call “assets”, all over the country, especially in large cities. Those who attacked the Karachi airport are reported to have spent two days in houses close to the target. They had local friends who helped them acquire Airport Security Force uniforms, shoes, food items, medicines etc. The terrorists have their sympathisers in the government, political parties, and bureaucracy, even in the judiciary and law-enforcement agencies.
The fact that the law-enforcement agencies have been infected by the terrorists is an especially grave matter. Instances of policemen/guards killing people suspected of offences against religion have increased to an alarming level. This is the enemy within that could cause Pakistan more harm than the terrorists.
This matter has become more serious after the start of military operation in North Waziristan. The government’s answer to the terrorists’ warning is ordering a ‘red alert’ and extraordinary security measures at important sites. These measures have often failed in the past and they are unlikely to succeed now.
The principal flaw in the government’s thinking is its treatment of the religious militants’ threat as merely a law and order issue. Little has been done to answer the militants’ strategy of misleading the people with their quasi-religious rhetoric. The theory of takfir under which the clergy can declare anyone an apostate or an infidel and thus liable to be slaughtered by any Muslim has not been analysed. The licence given to militants to kill non-Muslims must be revoked. It is also necessary to liberate the religious discourse from the monopoly of extremists. This may not be possible without the government leaders’ ability to expel the friends of terrorists from their hearts.
Published in Dawn, June 19th, 2014
The enemy within - DAWN.COM
Irfan Baloch
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I support it and want its urban version also launched simultaneously in all major cities and towns that are known breeding places of hatred and terror against state and its citizens.
Shabaz Sharif
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Riseup
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agreed : this is like kill the snakes and leave their eggs to hatch
Irfan Baloch
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I agree that Red Mosque operation was not executed well.. he should have had every thug and terrorist students executed and not allowed them to be sent to Supreme court which freed them and they made Ghazi force.
public sentiment from whom? who declare Usama as greatest Martyr and offer prayers in his name?
he has had more success with brick walls than those people who still think taliban are their brothers.
I see Pakistani Public as sons of Noah who remained in denial and refused to bord the ship and I am sure they must have been cursing and blaming him for drowning in the end.
Saudis cleared Grand Mosque back in 79 and executed every single terrorist. since then .. no wahabi terrorist dared to to repeat anything spectacular apart from a handful of bombings.
Saudis executed all 63 prisoners they had captured alive and no one shed a single tear for those bigots
in Pakistan, the public sentiment made the burka aunty a hereon..
Grand Mosque Seizure - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Irfan Baloch
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thats what I am talking about
Karachi Rangers kill alleged TTP commander during operation - Pakistan - DAWN.COM
KARACHI: Rangers personnel conducted an operation in Sultanabad area of Manghopir in Karachi on Thursday, allegedly killing a key commander and the local vice-emir of the proscribed Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP), DawnNews reported.
Riseup
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You are right but what I am talking about, this is not limited to these snakes. They have nexus in cities and villages of Pakistan where they are hidden and taking local political and social support, there supporters are not only in religious madarsaz and parties, there are many MNAs and MPAs in many main stream parties, who are supporting them for their purpose and they are bashing TTP on media but actually they got support of those madarsaz to win their own seats, who are supporter of TTP and provide hides to them. Do you know why Faisal Raza Abdi leave the peoples party and who are celebrating when he left? There are many PPP MNAs and MPAs from North Sindh and South Punjab who won their seats with help of maddarsaz who are actually supporter of TTP and some PMLN party members are well known for that. In this circumstance who will do operations against them. If Army will do that they start crying for democracy if not then these nexus will not destroyed completely.
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