Do you still support Musharraf?

[karpov]

However, the sad part is that parties dont continue with new faces.. I will be happy when NS and BB time is over.. How old are they? Retirement plan? Haji?

Its no less than dictatorship.

If Musharraf has to step down as an army cheif in order to become a candidate for election, than BB shouldn't be a candidate for the 3rd time.

You are looking at only one side of the picture, right that parties dont bring in new people and the disctatorship of politicians. But why thisis so?

Only because every time ther is a poitical governemnt or movement towards politics, some general jump in claiming to be savour of the nation and throws out the civilians who are actualy meant to rule the coutry. Then these miserably failing intelligence agencies, who ve totaly forgotten their actual job, with the command of their military masters start creating divisions in political parties, who are already lacking in many ways. These fragile political parties get played at the hands of military men who were unable to perform tejir duties i.e to defend our borders. When nawaz started taking the kargil issue seriously mushy ousted him. So how can u put blame on political parties whne they have never been allowed to perform in true manners? Since 60 yrs of our birth how many civilian governments and how many military rulers have ruled? So if we keep supporting this BS how would we survive?

 

[Always Neutral]

I expect the overseas investor to invest in Pakistan just as he has over the last 8 years. In fact, the overseas investments slowed down as the court started asserting itself more and more. Investors like predictability and continuity of policy. Musharraf in charge assures them of continuity of policy - judicial activism on the other hand does not assure them of anything, but rather makes things unpredictable. Now I am not saying that there is anything wrong with courts being cognizant of irregularities and taking appropriate action when necessary, but what do you think the investor prefers - a court acquiescent to Mousharraf and therefore to his investor friendly policies, or one run amuck, taking suo moto action and stalling investment left and right?

Dear AM,

FII and FI's will invest in Pakistan when its stable and not one mancentric. For such people Pakistan means the whole picture including strong institutions like the courts which are strong and independant. For eg suppose a multinational company has a problem with the Govt. itself who will it turn to - Supreme Court controlled by the Govt ?

Investors will follow what Standard & Poors and Moody says and they say at this moment that Pakistan is unstable for investments.

In a few weeks the figures will be available and you will see it yourself.

Best Regards

 

[niaz]

What are we discussing here? Do you still support Musharraf? What is actually meant by this question.

Hon Members, we have very little choice. If Musharraf was to resign or disappear, Senate Chairman Soomro would become the caretaker President until such time that a new/ permanent President can be elected. This can only be done after the general elections.

In the meantime how will the innocuous Soomro handle the current situation? I am sure that lawyers will demand reinstatement of the old Judiciary which will become even more bold and ready to take Suo Motu action each time the Executive farts at the wrong place. How is the country to be run under such conditions specially with suicide bombers running all over the place?

I believe in "the devil you know is better than the devil you dont know". In my opinion there is very little alternative and question should instead be discussed:

If you dont support Musharraf, what do you propose??

At this point in time Pakistan is really in a state of war. A strange war but a war none the less. What else would you call the situation when security forces and civilians are being attacked right inside your country?

Regardless of whether you like Musharraf or not; IMO least painful option is to let Mushy be the President with the condition that he lays down his uniform, holds free and fair election and fade way after 5 years. If any Hon member can suggest another option which is likely to cause less chaos, I would be more than happy to hear it.

 

[Always Neutral]

What are we discussing here? Do you still support Musharraf? What is actually meant by this question.

Hon Members, we have very little choice. If Musharraf was to resign or disappear, Senate Chairman Soomro would become the caretaker President until such time that a new/ permanent President can be elected. .

Quiet general who may succeed Musharraf - Telegraph

Quiet general who may succeed Musharraf


Last Updated: 2:53am GMT 07/11/2007


If General Pervez Musharraf is forced from power, the man who delivers the coup de grace will probably be a quiet, studious general who doubles as the president of the Pakistan Golf Association.

Gen Ashfaq Pervez Kiyani, the deputy chief of the army staff and a skilled amateur golfer, is the favourite to become Pakistan's next president.

Ranking second only to Gen Musharraf, he is the country's most senior military officer. If Gen Musharraf keeps his promise to resign as army chief, Gen Kiyani will almost certainly succeed him.

Defending the country is not the only task of Pakistan's army commander. Toppling unpopular governments is part of the informal job description.

So Gen Kiyani cannot avoid becoming a political player of immense importance. Yet throughout his career, he has always shunned the limelight and won promotion by displaying loyalty and discretion.

Born in 1952, Gen Kiyani comes from Punjab, the traditional home of Pakistan's military elite. After joining the Baluch Regiment in 1971, he enjoyed a swift rise.

Gen Kiyani has held the most sensitive jobs in Pakistan. After serving as director-general of military operations during Pakistan's military confrontation with India in 2002, he was promoted to lead Ten Corps in Rawalpindi. Ten Corps is based only a few miles from the capital, Islamabad, so has traditionally been in charge of launching military coups.

A British official who knows Gen Kiyani described him as a "softly spoken, thoughtful general" and a skilled "strategist". But will Gen Kiyani remain loyal to his boss and refrain from launching a coup, regardless of the condemnation caused by Gen Musharraf's declaration of emergency rule?

David Blair


Dear Niaz,

What about Gen. Kiyani. He seems to be good guy and can start with a clean chit.

Regards

 

[niaz]

Quiet general who may succeed Musharraf - Telegraph

Quiet general who may succeed Musharraf


Last Updated: 2:53am GMT 07/11/2007


If General Pervez Musharraf is forced from power, the man who delivers the coup de grace will probably be a quiet, studious general who doubles as the president of the Pakistan Golf Association.

Gen Ashfaq Pervez Kiyani, the deputy chief of the army staff and a skilled amateur golfer, is the favourite to become Pakistan's next president.

Ranking second only to Gen Musharraf, he is the country's most senior military officer. If Gen Musharraf keeps his promise to resign as army chief, Gen Kiyani will almost certainly succeed him.

Defending the country is not the only task of Pakistan's army commander. Toppling unpopular governments is part of the informal job description.

So Gen Kiyani cannot avoid becoming a political player of immense importance. Yet throughout his career, he has always shunned the limelight and won promotion by displaying loyalty and discretion.

Born in 1952, Gen Kiyani comes from Punjab, the traditional home of Pakistan's military elite. After joining the Baluch Regiment in 1971, he enjoyed a swift rise.

Gen Kiyani has held the most sensitive jobs in Pakistan. After serving as director-general of military operations during Pakistan's military confrontation with India in 2002, he was promoted to lead Ten Corps in Rawalpindi. Ten Corps is based only a few miles from the capital, Islamabad, so has traditionally been in charge of launching military coups.

A British official who knows Gen Kiyani described him as a "softly spoken, thoughtful general" and a skilled "strategist". But will Gen Kiyani remain loyal to his boss and refrain from launching a coup, regardless of the condemnation caused by Gen Musharraf's declaration of emergency rule?

David Blair


Dear Niaz,

What about Gen. Kiyani. He seems to be good guy and can start with a clean chit.

Regards

This is what I am afraid of. This simply means back to square one ( Oct 99). All you are doing is changing one General with another. How do we Know he is better? After all Gen Kiyani is a protege of Gen Musharraf.

IMO best option is to continue the transition to the civilian rule thru holding general elections.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Dear AM,

FII and FI's will invest in Pakistan when its stable and not one mancentric. For such people Pakistan means the whole picture including strong institutions like the courts which are strong and independant. For eg suppose a multinational company has a problem with the Govt. itself who will it turn to - Supreme Court controlled by the Govt ?

Investors will follow what Standard & Poors and Moody says and they say at this moment that Pakistan is unstable for investments.

In a few weeks the figures will be available and you will see it yourself.

Best Regards

I was responding to your comment about the "overseas investor" not investing because of the lack of an "independent and viable judiciary" - I still maintain what I expressed earlier - that they would prefer a judiciary that goes along with Musharraf's investor friendly policies.

On the issue of loss of confidence due to the emergency, you are absolutely correct - but I don't think many people expect this to last very long, and it will be back to normal soon, hopefully, and the investor will have his "investor friendly court" as well.

 

[dabong1]

2nd part

However, it is the second more long-term negative impact that should be a cause for national concern. This is the impact that events have already been having on the institution of the military. The Pakistan military is a highly cohesive and professional organisation -- one that has a central role in protecting and enhancing our strategic assets. That is why external actors like the US, who seek weak and compliant Muslim states, know that at the end of the day they will need to undermine the institution of the military even as they attempt to sow discontent within civil society -- not only amongst each other but also in terms of the civil-military equation. After all, even at times of intense alliance, Pakistan as a state has managed to stand firm on its national interests.

This was the case when we developed our nuclear capability; when we refused to go along with the US invasion of Iraq and our continuing refusal to play ball with the US on Iran. On the US-led war on terrorism, for a while Pakistan chose to adopt a more holistic approach than the military-centric US approach with its massive collateral damage in terms of civilian losses. We did realise that such losses cannot be sustained by our military in the war on terror because the targets are our own people.

Also, a prolonged operation against our own people would be stressful for the rank and file of the security forces and this is what seems to be happening. Large-scale kidnappings of security personnel are extremely damaging to the security institutions. Equally damaging is the long-term political intervention of the military in national affairs. The rumours doing the rounds on Monday last regarding a counter coup and so on do no good to the health of the military institution. Yet it is critical for Pakistan to maintain the professional vibrancy of its military.

It is interesting to note that in terms of Pakistan the US has always praised its leaders with whom it evolved beneficial equations rather than the nation as a whole. Saddam was seen as a dangerous "tyrant" but it is Pakistan as a whole that is seen as "dangerous" or being overwhelmed by extremists. Interestingly, the US Centcom chief visited Pakistan a day before the declaration of 'emergency' and a few days earlier the Jordanian king had also visited. Was support for US policy on Iran an issue for discussion?

The point is that the US stands to benefit tremendously right now because it may demand costly quid pro quos for toning down their criticism of the 'emergency'. That is why Ms Bhutto is increasingly being viewed as part of the US deal-making -- hence her rather guarded protest against the 'emergency'. Will the US now have a freer military hand in the tribal belt? Will Pakistan move closer to US policy on Iran? So many questions and suspicions naturally come to mind given the past record of the US vis-a-vis my beloved country. I am what I am because of Pakistan and I am nothing without Pakistan.

So, at the end of the day, it is not an issue of "transitionists" versus "confrontationists" or "revolutionaries", within the Pakistani context -- there being no authentic revolutionaries within our midst. It is an issue of national perspectives versus external perspectives and national institutions being strengthened rather than individuals. Our temporal salvation lies in strong institutions and stable systems, not in individual "saviours".

Save us from our saviours

 

[dabong1]

Pakistan denies Indian claims of forces' pull out ISLAMABAD, Nov 7 (AFP) Pakistan's military Wednesday denied reports from India that it had withdrawn tens of thousands of troops from the border to deploy them against militants in restive tribal areas. Top military spokesman and Director General Inter Services Public Relations Major General Waheed Arshad told AFP that Pakistan did not station troops along the recognised international border with India during peacetime. But he said Pakistan did have troops deployed on the Line of Control as well as on the Siachen glacier in the Himalayas. “Not a single soldier had been pulled back from these two deployments,” he said. A top Indian defence ministry official said Wednesday that Pakistan's troop numbers along the frontier had hit an “all-time low” during the summer as soldiers were sent to the North West Frontier Province. “Our estimates are based on tested intelligence inputs from within Pakistan and feedbacks from our watch on their frontier assets,” added an official from India's director-general of military intelligence. India's military establishment estimates the redeployment has left “gaping holes” in Pakistan's eastern flank facing India.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

^^^ these militants are taking down the Pakistani flag and hoisting their own, how much more do they have to do before people realize they are against the Pakistani state?

 

[fatman17]

2nd part
Save us from our saviours

and pray tell us who is your saviour? - BENAZIR
please give me a break - she cant wait to get into power - her husband (Mr. 10%) and her new right-hand-man Rehman Malik (a convicted FUGITIVE) are salivating at the 16 Billion dollars lying with the SBP.

U seem to be a patriotic pakistani (i may not agree with all u have said/posted) but come on man!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

dbong,

Can we leave out India for a change?

The screw up in Pakistan and the Emergency is all Pakistani inspired, thanks to fundamentalists like you, who cannot see beyond your nose and Islam and ummah!. Get real. Islam has to set its house in order and then think of Islamic superiority!

27 Mtn Div of India has been pulled out, just for your info.

Time you and your ilk stopped being ostriches!

Thank you.

 

[r4rehan]

Asalam-0-Alikum alll i just want to say that who is Extremist who loves with their religion and who knows what a war on terror, and what a war on ISLAM, u know bros G,Musharaf Called them Extremist and BUSH called them Terrorist, we know Musharaf Sahib Majboor hain, do know Bush says that he is fighting for their Citizen , any one can tell me why we are Killing our own Citizen for USA's citizen , my english is not gub but i think u bro can fell what i want to say !!! now time have been come, we can came out of this War !! we love our pakistan and we can give our life for this Riligon (ISLAM) and our Country PAKISTAN plz plz think about ................................................. and jahan tak Musharaf Sahib ki bat hai, i think he loves his country but he scared for USA ! and we have to refresh our friendship with hamare dost hamare doshman hogai hain aur doshman bad tareen doshman !!

 

[A.Rahman]

Asalam-0-Alikum alll i just want to say that who is Extremist who loves with their religion and who knows what a war on terror, and what a war on ISLAM, u know bros G,Musharaf Called them Extremist and BUSH called them Terrorist, we know Musharaf Sahib Majboor hain, do know Bush says that he is fighting for their Citizen , any one can tell me why we are Killing our own Citizen for USA's citizen , my english is not gub but i think u bro can fell what i want to say !!! now time have been come, we can came out of this War !! we love our pakistan and we can give our life for this Riligon (ISLAM) and our Country PAKISTAN plz plz think about ................................................. and jahan tak Musharaf Sahib ki bat hai, i think he loves his country but he scared for USA ! and we have to refresh our friendship with hamare dost hamare doshman hogai hain aur doshman bad tareen doshman !!

Islam in no way sponsors extremism; extremism is the result of Afghan Jihad , please educate your self about real Islam.

 

[r4rehan]

thxxxx

 

[r4rehan]

Islam in no way sponsors extremism; extremism is the result of Afghan Jihad , please educate your self about real Islam.

borther do u know what is jihad ?? ager pata hota to nahi khete yeah bat !!