Do I have the right to remain Ahmadi?

[INDIC]

whats ur point??
was jinnah's death helpful for pakistan or not?

Islamic beliefs had always been same for Muslims thus I am extremely surprised how Ahmedis had so much influence in Muslim League for the movement for the Muslim homeland seeing the same religious disagreement 100 years back.

 

[KingMamba]

I wouldn't risk facing Saudi laws. There is no clear news what happened to this guy. Many say he just disappeared.

Non-Muslim Overstayer Arrested in Makkah | Arab News — Saudi Arabia News, Middle East News, Opinion, Economy and more.

Rumors, Saudis are the boogeymen for many.

 

[M. Sarmad]

With all these questions going on I am not sure anymore




Chapter (33) sūrat l-aḥzāb (The Combined Forces)

Sahih International: Muhammad is not the father of [any] one of your men, but [he is] the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah , of all things, Knowing.

Pickthall
Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is ever Aware of all things.

Yusuf Ali
Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.

Likewise I know what I am talking about when I say bs.

Here you go :

►Sheykh As-Sadduq in Al i'tiqad page 78:
"And our belief about who does not believe in Imamat of the Commander of Believing Ali and other Imam after him is that it is similar to that which does not believe in the prophety (nubuwa) of all the Prophets."

►Al Majlissi in Bihar Al Anwar:
"Knows that the application of the terms shirk (polytheism) and kufr (unbeliever) against those who don't believe in Imama of the Commander of Believing (i.e Ali) and of the Imam among its descendants (i.e 11 other Imam), peace be upon them, and who place another man above them (in term of merits), are non-believers who will remain eternally in hell."

►Sheikh Al Mufid in Al Masa'il:
"There is consensus between the imamiya scholars on the fact that somebody who did not believe in Imama of one of the Imam and who did not believe in what Allah established like obligation to obey to them, that such a person is a mislaid non-believer, and which will deserve to remain eternally in hell."

►Fatwa of ayatollah Rohani who says that sunni won't go in heaven because they don't believe in the Walayat of Ali
http://www.imamrohan...opic.php?t=1861

►Nimatullah Al-Jazaeri in Al-Anwar Al-Numaniya (Vol 1 p. 278/279):
"We do not agree with Nasibis about Allah nor a prophet nor an Imam, for they say that their God is the one whose prophet is Muhammad (a.s) and his Khalifah after him is Abu Baker. We do not believe in this God nor this Prophet, because the God whose prophet's Khalifa is Abu Baker is not our God and that Prophet is not our Prophet"



"...Rejecting us(Imams) is rejecting Allah and that is up to the level of paganism and considering things equal to Allah..."

Al-Kafi, Book on Virtue of Knowledge, H 196, Ch. 21, h 9

 

[American Eagle]

they do accept, at least my friends do, but they say Mirza sahib were the second coming of jesus; the promised Messiah of Allah and that we are not accepting the true Messiah and henceforth working against Islam, and that they want to establish Khilafat in Pakistan... @Spring Onion

As a Christian Westerner let me provide "some" Holy Bible guidance on the Second Coming of Jesus:

In Revelation, Chapter 22, verses 12-13: "And, behold, I come quickly, and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."

And Revelation, Chapter 22, verses 18-21: "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book; And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of his prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in is book. He who testifieth these things saith, Surely, I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen."

The foundation of all Christianity is that we are saved by Grace, not by works, even though works will naturally flow from one who accepts Christ as their Savior as the Son of God sent as a living sacrifice for the sins of all mankind.

Have a good rest of the week. I find your discussion of the Second Coming of Jesus very interesting and appreciate your open dialogue about it.

 

[Dubious]

Pickthall
Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is ever Aware of all things.

Yusuf Ali
Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.

The Arabic word Khattaman nabi...what does that mean? What does Khttam mean?

The foundation of all Christianity is that we are saved by Grace, not by works, even though works will naturally flow from one who accepts Christ as their Savior as the Son of God sent as a living sacrifice for the sins of all mankind.

Have a good rest of the week. I find your discussion of the Second Coming of Jesus very interesting and appreciate your open dialogue about it.

We have the same believe...we will be saved by the mercy of ALLAH and hence are asked to pray for mercy...We also believe good deeds come naturally for those who accept the truth

 

[M. Sarmad]

The Arabic word Khattaman nabi...what does that mean? What does Khttam mean?

"Seal of the prophets" meaning last of the prophets ...

The scholars of Islam, have interpreted this Finality to mean that Muhammad is the Last and Final Law bearing Messenger of God. Some examples from the writings of the past scholars affirm this point: The expression خَاتَمَ النَّبِيِّينَ which means, the Seal of the Prophets; has also been understood to mean 'the best of the Prophets', 'the Final and Last prophet', 'the Last authority', 'the Embellishment of the prophets'; and "Last", in the sense that all the qualities and attributes of prophethood found their most perfect and complete consummation and expression in him.[7]

 

[jaunty]

Wouldn't matter that was just an example he could keep his Dharmic name lol.

The point we were discussing was going there without converting. Someone with a name Deepak Sharma would raise immediate questions.

 

[Robinhood Pandey]

You're not wrong. For the most part, no one can judge another's religion.
However, sometimes it's a must. It's like an openly practicing Christian starts claiming to be a Muslim, in which case it's a blatant lie.

even if thats a lie . . those who are practicing are only answerable to Almighty. . . mortals have no rights to decide whether someone is a muslim or not.

isn't that the basic concept ?

 

[jaunty]

Rumors, Saudis are the boogeymen for many.

Not just Saudi, I wouldn't flirt with danger in any autocracy.

 

[Dubious]

"Seal of the prophets" meaning last of the prophets ...

The scholars of Islam, have interpreted this Finality to mean that Muhammad is the Last and Final Law bearing Messenger of God. Some examples from the writings of the past scholars affirm this point: The expression خَاتَمَ النَّبِيِّينَ which means, the Seal of the Prophets; has also been understood to mean 'the best of the Prophets', 'the Final and Last prophet', 'the Last authority', 'the Embellishment of the prophets'; and "Last", in the sense that all the qualities and attributes of prophethood found their most perfect and complete consummation and expression in him.[7]

Ok so what is stopping Ahmedi from believing the Quran?

Wait I just re read....It says Khattam meaning finished nothing to do with qualities and attributes....

If the Nabi is khattam, so is the Rasool...because all Rasool are Nabis but not all Nabi are Rasool...so if Nabi is finished there is no doubt anything else would come claiming to be either a Nabi or a Rasool...what hidden meaning did you find?

 

[M. Sarmad]

Ok so what is stopping Ahmedi from believing the Quran?

Wait I just re read....It says Khattam meaning finished nothing to do with qualities and attributes....

If the Nabi is khattam, so is the Rasool...because all Rasool are Nabis but not all Nabi are Rasool...so if Nabi is finished there is no doubt anything else would come claiming to be either a Nabi or a Rasool...what hidden meaning did you find?

They do believe in Quran ... They differ only in the interpretation of this verse (and a few other )... And they are not the only ones to follow those interpretations .... Some of great Scholars in Islamic history have interpreted that verse (i.e 33:40) in the same way as Mirza Ghulam Ahmed did ..... So there is nothing in Quran which can directly prove that "Ahmedis are Non Muslim" .... You need Ahadith and other literature to prove the "Kufr" of Ahmedis .... Simple as that !!

 

[KingMamba]

Here you go :

►Sheykh As-Sadduq in Al i'tiqad page 78:
"And our belief about who does not believe in Imamat of the Commander of Believing Ali and other Imam after him is that it is similar to that which does not believe in the prophety (nubuwa) of all the Prophets."

►Al Majlissi in Bihar Al Anwar:
"Knows that the application of the terms shirk (polytheism) and kufr (unbeliever) against those who don't believe in Imama of the Commander of Believing (i.e Ali) and of the Imam among its descendants (i.e 11 other Imam), peace be upon them, and who place another man above them (in term of merits), are non-believers who will remain eternally in hell."

►Sheikh Al Mufid in Al Masa'il:
"There is consensus between the imamiya scholars on the fact that somebody who did not believe in Imama of one of the Imam and who did not believe in what Allah established like obligation to obey to them, that such a person is a mislaid non-believer, and which will deserve to remain eternally in hell."

►Fatwa of ayatollah Rohani who says that sunni won't go in heaven because they don't believe in the Walayat of Ali
http://www.imamrohan...opic.php?t=1861

►Nimatullah Al-Jazaeri in Al-Anwar Al-Numaniya (Vol 1 p. 278/279):
"We do not agree with Nasibis about Allah nor a prophet nor an Imam, for they say that their God is the one whose prophet is Muhammad (a.s) and his Khalifah after him is Abu Baker. We do not believe in this God nor this Prophet, because the God whose prophet's Khalifa is Abu Baker is not our God and that Prophet is not our Prophet"



"...Rejecting us(Imams) is rejecting Allah and that is up to the level of paganism and considering things equal to Allah..."

Al-Kafi, Book on Virtue of Knowledge, H 196, Ch. 21, h 9

Interesting all Shias I have spoken too disagree, want to give me links too besides that dead one?

The point we were discussing was going there without converting. Someone with a name Deepak Sharma would raise immediate questions.

True someone with such a name would not be able to go in without converting but if he did convert but kept the same name they would ask him to provide mosque information and then speak to his molvi to confirm.

 

[Dubious]

They do believe in Quran ... They differ only in the interpretation of this verse (and a few other )... And they are not the only ones to follow those interpretations .... Some of great Scholars in Islamic history have interpreted that verse (i.e 33:40) in the same way as Mirza Ghulam Ahmed did ..... So Ahmedis can not be declared "Non Muslim" on basis of (rejecting) Quranic verses .... You need Ahadith and other literature to prove the "Kufr" of Ahmedis .... Simple as that !!

Yo! Nothing is above the Quran...You reject 1 ayat of the Quran is more than enough to be declared kufar (one who rejects)

 

[M. Sarmad]

Yo! Nothing is above the Quran...You reject 1 ayat of the Quran is more than enough to be declared kufar (one who rejects)

They can not be declared Kafir because they do not reject any Quranic verse ........ This is a false allegation made against the Ahmedis that they reject certain Quranic verses ...

 

[Dubious]

They can not be declared Kafir because they do not reject any Quranic verse ........ This is a false allegation made by Mullahs against the Ahmedis that they reject certain Quranic verses ...

By saying Khattam means something else is called rejecting the verse or even changing a meaning can also cause a person to be declared Kufar...

Thats not for me to say (ALLAH is the only judge) but I am saying those are the conditions that some apply...