Do I have the right to remain Ahmadi?

[M. Sarmad]

By saying Khattam means something else is called rejecting the verse or even changing a meaning can also cause a person to be declared Kufar...

Thats not for me to say (ALLAH is the only judge) but I am saying those are the conditions that some apply...

Those conditions should apply to every one then.... The scholars who originally interpreted the verse in this way are "great ulemas" and Ahmedis are Kaafir for doing the same !!. Why this hypocrisy ?? this is what Mullahs` political Islam can do .... Also , the explanation of "khatim" used by Mirza (and earlier scholars) is not wrong "linguistically" .....

 

[Dubious]

Then those conditions should apply to every one .... The scholars who originally interpreted the verse in this way are "great ulemas" and Ahmedis are Kaafir for doing the same !!. Why this hypocrisy ?? this is what Mullah`s political Islam can do .... Also , the explanation of "khatim" used by Mirza (and earlier scholars) is not wrong "linguistically" .....

1st tell me how can you get an underground meaning of the word khattamun nabi? Its not talking about characteristics it would say so...You claim to know Arabic and you know how specific words are in Arabic....this is khattam meaning seal, closure, end, finish of the Nabi

Well, Mr. Gullam Mirza was from India not really a native to Arab speaker...He claimed to have learned Arabic but why didnt the "msg" come in Sanskrit? From his own mother tongue?

Prophet Muhammad or any other Prophet did not get a revelation from any other language but their own mother tongue!

Ok lets take your point..Show me how is it not wrong "linguistically"

 

[American Eagle]

Yes Illah can be another way of saying so....
Ullah would mean God's and so on...

Yes indeed we have alot of common things...hence why we come under the common umbrella of Abrahamic religion!

Thanks for everyone's inputs. I have to go to lunch with some old semi-retired businessmen like myself. A good day to one and all.

 

[M. Sarmad]

1st tell me how can you get an underground meaning of the word khattamun nabi? Its not talking about characteristics it would say so...You claim to know Arabic and you know how specific words are in Arabic....this is khattam meaning seal, closure, end, finish of the Nabi

Well, Mr. Gullam Mirza was from India not really a native to Arab speaker...He claimed to have learned Arabic but why didnt the "msg" come in Sanskrit? From his own mother tongue?

Prophet Muhammad or any other Prophet did not get a revelation from any other language but their own mother tongue!

Ok lets take your point..Show me how is it not wrong "linguistically"

BB tumhain samajh hi nahi a rahi k kah kiya raha hoon mein , Or may be you don`t want to understand . Khair You are free to believe in whatever you want ..... I am done

 

[Jazzbot]

The Ahmedis do not reject this verse , they have a different interpretation only ... And ironically , many other scholars before him , also interpreted this verse (33:40) in the same way as Mirza Ghulam Ahmed did .. (Read post # 142)

No need to create ambiguity, what's written in this verse is loud and clear. Besides there are a lot of other references too which proof finality of prophet hood at Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H). He himself said in his last address during hajj that Allah has completed the Islam upon all Muslims today and it will remain so till the day of judgement. And there are only 2 things left for guidance towards right path: Quran and Sunnat.

These lines has some weight, and I am sure you can understand it easily.

 

[M. Sarmad]

. And there are only 2 things left for guidance towards right path: Quran and Sunnat.

A little correction : two weighty things are:
1) Quran
2) Ahl e Bait
[Sahih Muslim]

And Muhammad (pbuh) is the last messenger of Allah , No Muslim denies that ...

I never said that there aren`t any other sources ... In fact the other sources , and not Quran itself is used to prove the kufr of Ahmedis

 

[Jazzbot]

In fact the other sources , and not Quran itself is used to prove the kufr of Ahmedis

That's where we differ. You said just because some other historic scholars interpreted that verse 33:40 the same way Ahmadi's do, it gives them legitimacy? What about the majority of scholars who didn't interpreted that verse that way? If you are to pull some 3 - 4 scholar's words to save Ahmadi's, then what about 20 - 30 other scholars who differ with that narration of 33:40??

 

[Dubious]

BB tumhain samajh hi nahi a rahi k kah kiya raha hoon mein , Or may be you don`t want to understand . Khair You are free to believe in whatever you want ..... I am done

Mujhay such mein nai samajh aari coz you arent saying much you said linguistically so I say ok...now prove it to me....linguistically...

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Ahmadi people don't realize that the key to solve all their problems is actually in their own hands.

how about we ALL -- regardless of our levels of religiousity or religious beliefs - view eachother as PAKISTANIS first?

on that day - we'll be the strongest country in the world

 

[Jazzbot]

how about we ALL -- regardless of our levels of religiousity or religious beliefs - view eachother as PAKISTANIS first?

on that day - we'll be the strongest country in the world

Aye sir, but my post was in light of ground realities. They are in minority, they have distorted Islam and they still want to be called Muslims. Now when almost everyone is ready to accept them as separate religion, they are just dying to be treated as Muslim. I mean what's the problem if its your personal believe?

 

[M. Sarmad]

That's where we differ. You said just because some other historic scholars interpreted that verse 33:40 the same way Ahmadi's do, it gives them legitimacy? What about the majority of scholars who didn't interpreted that verse that way? If you are to pull some 3 - 4 scholar's words to save Ahmadi's, then what about 20 - 30 other scholars who differ with that narration of 33:40??

May be you missed this part :

Those conditions should apply to every one then.... The scholars who originally interpreted the verse in this way are "great ulemas" and Ahmedis are Kaafir for doing the same !!. Why this hypocrisy ?? this is what Mullahs` political Islam can do !!

And most importantly Ahmedis do fulfill the "minimum requirements to be a Muslim" as per Quran [Al Imran 64 , 2:62 & 3:19] ..... So I personally believe that I am no one to say that they are non Muslims ...... And Mr. Jinnah was absolutely right on this



@Pakistani Exile @Jaanbaz can explain the Ahmadiyya beliefs in a better way ....... Idiots like Afghan-one have already given a "fatwa" that I am a Qadiyani ..,......... And I don`t want to "misrepresent" them ..

 

[Jazzbot]

Those conditions should apply to every one then.... The scholars who originally interpreted the verse in this way are "great ulemas" and Ahmedis are Kaafir for doing the same !!. Why this hypocrisy ?? this is what Mullahs` political Islam can do !!

No hypocrisy, it was a wise question. Only a handful scholars have narrated the verse the way Ahmadi's do. What about the rest of the majority? Lets turn a blind eye on them all, right?

And don't make it sound like Ahmadiyyat revolves around this one verse only. Like I said before, there are a lot of other authentic references too on the finality of prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) so anyone who questions or challenges it can kiss good bye to his Muslim identity.

 

[Sugarcane]

Mujhay such mein nai samajh aari coz you arent saying much you said linguistically so I say ok...now prove it to me....linguistically...

Although - Ahmadis can explain their belief better but what i know is that Ahmadis themselves are divided into two groups -

The Lahori group call themselves reformists and agree that there can't be any prophet after Muhammad (PBUH) except Jesus and Ghulam Ahmad was Mujadid (reformist).

Other group believe that Ghulam Ahmad was Rasool/Messenger (not a Nabi who brings new laws) and as per their interpretation of verse 33:40 - they say that the verse doesn't say Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was last messenger and Prophet (Rasool & Nabi) - but It says Muhammad (PBUH) is the messenger/Rasool and final Prophet/Nabi. So, there can be Messengers/Rasools after Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) but there can't be any Nabi/Prophet (law-bearing).

 

[RabzonKhan]

You are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed. That has nothing to do with the business of the State. Muhammad Ali Jinnah

In any case Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic State to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. We have many non-Muslims — Hindus, Christians, and Parsis — but they are all Pakistanis. They will enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan. Muhammad Ali Jinnah

 

[VCheng]

You are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed. That has nothing to do with the business of the State. Muhammad Ali Jinnah

In any case Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic State to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. We have many non-Muslims — Hindus, Christians, and Parsis — but they are all Pakistanis. They will enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan. Muhammad Ali Jinnah

That was the dream. The reality is now very different.