Discussion: Is Pakistan's economy failing because it is not a secular nation?

[R2D2]

Islamic economic system based on zero interest makes profitable businesses with low profit margin. There is no speculation in stock exchange, real estate and cars. There is no gambling like cards and stock exchange. Which system is better? Decide for yourself. Islamic system is similar to scandinavian system with high taxes on rich and high spending on poor and weak. The example below will make you understand:

American economic model means unfettered capitalism which we are experiencing under IMF these days.

 

[Rusty2]

True - Indonesia while being an Islamic country was notorious for corruption at one point to the extent even cheques were accepted for payoffs.

However, key to the failure of Pakistan is the lack of impact by corruption/nepotism and otherwise due to a constant in flow of loans and aid which shielded the population from total collapse otherwise along with normalization of corruption as a way of life. In every aspect, Pakistanis embrace corruption not just in monetary form, but in their religious and cultural values as well.

South Korea in the 50s-60s-70s was very much like Pakistan. Corrupt, developing and they also got lots of loans as well as remittances. Yet they developed. Again, every country on earth has corruption, why is every country on Earth not like Pakistan?

@Menace2Society @epebble @Rusty2 @Sayfullah

Ngl, even though I argued against secularism due to many reasons, the only reason I would support it is so Pakistanis stop sucking up to foreign Muslim countries just because they're Muslim, even when that country is shitting on your country with terrorism, etc, they're like mental slave cucks I swear...

Agree with your assessment minus the secularism bit.

 

[SQ8]

South Korea in the 50s-60s-70s was very much like Pakistan. Corrupt, developing and they also got lots of loans as well as remittances. Yet they developed. Again, every country on earth has corruption, why is every country on Earth not like Pakistan?


Agree with your assessment minus the secularism bit.

Leadership - and education. Check the demographics on education in SK especially vs Pakistan

 

[TheSolution]

It is in India's interest to keep Pakistan radicalized. That's why they funneled money to TTP and I am sure many other extremist organisations across Pakistan.

Just like how RSS benefits Pakistan.

Similarly one could say that the Indians realise the risk secularism poses to Pakistan hence the votes.

 

[Menace2Society]

South Korea in the 50s-60s-70s was very much like Pakistan. Corrupt, developing and they also got lots of loans as well as remittances. Yet they developed. Again, every country on earth has corruption, why is every country on Earth not like Pakistan?

Pakistan was ahead of South Korea in the 60s.

South Korea 60s

South Korea now

I did a google map street view experiment on Pakistan and it still looks the same as the 70s/80s.

ZAB and Zia f**ked up Pakistan.

 

[Zornix]

Pakistan is already secular albeit with a touch of Islam politically but a lot of religious extremist societal pockets.

In which secular country are Shias, Ahmadis, and Christians treated like sub humans and denied basic rights such as housing, employment, and educational opportunities? which secular nation has blasphemy laws? and if religious extremism was just confined to a few societal pockets then why are rabidly fanatic organisations and parties such as the TLP, JUI, and JuD so widely followed even in urban cities? why do regressive mullahs have so much influence and respect in society?

Lets see you try to address my arguments without accusing me of being Indian. I know it is hard but try.

 

[lightning F57]

Every country on earth has corruption. Why is every country on Earth not like Pakistan?

Because there are levels of it, Pakistan would rank close to the most corrupt.

 

[TheSolution]

In which secular country are Shias, Ahmadis, and Christians treated like sub humans and denied basic rights such as housing, employment, and educational opportunities?

In a largely uneducated country that happens to be nearly entirely Muslim, minorities do tend to be treated in horrid ways. Especially when extremism in the form of religion exists in society.

which secular nation has blasphemy laws?

A democratic one which has an over 95% population of Muslims who find blasphemous people incredibly insulting, could perhaps be linked to aspects of uneducated and extreme masses, but it's a want of the majority of people regardless.

and if religious extremism was just confined to a few societal pockets then why are rabidly fanatic organisations and parties such as the TLP, JUI, and JuD so widely followed even in urban cities?

Because other parties are viewed as more liberals and too irreligious, so they lean towards those parties even if they don't entirely agree with all the policies.

Also on what basis are you calling those parties extreme?

why do regressive mullahs have so much influence and respect in society?

Being a secular nation doesn't mean your nation is irreligious.

So again, uneducated religious folk are easily lured into the traps of unqualified and uneducated mullahs.

 

[lightning F57]

There is a big difference between being an Islamic state and a secular state.

Islamic state is based on islamic teachings of Prophet Muhammad pbuh, islamic shariah and is eternal.

A secular state is based on the whims and desires of the majority which leads to man based laws not divine per the islamic world view.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

Jinnah was a western educated lawyer who liked a smoke and a drink. He was not a mullah lol.

And he viewed Muslim faith and religion as a political identity.

 

[ThunderCat]

The main culprits:

1) Overpopulation, a mostly ignored issue and biggest issue facing the country fueled by agriculture.

2) Previous American sanctions because of 1998 nuclear tests.

3) War in Afghanistan. The economy probably lost more than foreign aid.

 

[TheSolution]

The main culprits:

1) Overpopulation, a mostly ignored issue and biggest issue facing the country fueled by agriculture.

2) Previous American sanctions because of 1998 nuclear tests.

3) War in Afghanistan. The economy probably lost more than foreign aid.

You missed the biggest issue which is incompetent and careless leadership.

They are all corrupt and didn't care for Pakistan, even till this day they want their seat and money

 

[VCheng]

Leadership - and education. Check the demographics on education in SK especially vs Pakistan

Just secondary education? Pakistan is the land of the amazing water powered car. Just remembering all the people who fell for it makes for a terrifying realization for those who can still see.

 

[Menace2Society]

And he viewed Muslim faith and religion as a political identity.

If he could organise the people of Indus through a geographical identity he would and he did to an extent. That's why he hated provincialism. He used whatever sauce the masses liked the taste of to get the job done.

If the Indus people weren't so feckless they would have carved out their land without needing a foreign ideological anchor.

 

[ThunderCat]

South Korea in the 50s-60s-70s was very much like Pakistan. Corrupt, developing and they also got lots of loans as well as remittances. Yet they developed. Again, every country on earth has corruption, why is every country on Earth not like Pakistan?

South Korea enjoyed American economic aid. Plus their population has remained stable, much thanks to their northern climate. This has prevented them from producing so much food and as a result prevented booming their population which would have had bad consequences.

Today they rely on foreign imports to sustain their food supply which is mostly seasonal.

Americans actually encouraged our irrigation programs without prior ecological evaluation which resulted in a population explosion and massive poverty. More food means more people.

They thought encouraging us to grow so much food we were helping our rural class but as food population measurements show, population sizes depend on food supply, not the other way around.

You missed the biggest issue which is incompetent and careless leadership.

They are all corrupt and didn't care for Pakistan, even till this day they want their seat and money

Every country has corruption but it hurts less when there's much less people to look after. Gulf Arab states spend only a fraction on their people but it's more than enough since they have less of their kind to look after.

Corruption existed in our early years of independence. But we still enjoyed better living conditions as there were less people to look after back then.

Even if you ran the most honest administration, how do you propose fostering so many millions of people? What would you be able to do?