discrimination against urdu speakers/mohajirs/urban Sindhis

[batmannow]

i dont play ethnic card so it doesnt mater from where i hail.

2. quota system indeed has its flaws in every society but Rural Sindhis are NOT to be blamed for it .

3 Thirdly it is not about only Sindhis but anyone even a urdu speaking/ a mohajir in govt job earn the same harram ki rozi and also those who are earning at gun point and extortion if that is NOT haraam ki rozi?

guss its common desease, but been over projected by MQM, time & time again?
not because they want to resolve the issue , but they want to use that issue for thier politics?
thats where it goes bad?
issues are real, same as HAZARA,s & southern punjabis, had it?
but its just another hood wink for the political missfits, all over pakistan?
baluchis patronised by super powers, also are doing the same but, at least they show the courge to show up on the world media?
all MQM wants is the issues like that, used for thier political survival in pakistan?

 

[Sugarcane]

However, it is usually quite easy to manipulate the information that is actually available. For example by deliberately picking and choosing passages and ignoring the actual facts.
Meanwhile, other communities already had a lingering sense of Mohajirs having far more prominence and power than their numbers deserved. Pakistan's indigenous communities including the Punjabi, Pashtun and Sindhi's who's literacy rates began rising, naturally represented more than 80% of the countries population but until the late 1960s, almost three quarters of the bureaucracy were still being held by the former refugees. Mohajir's also unfairly favoured hiring of people from within their own community over people's indigenous to Pakistan and often invited distant relatives from India to fill these spots over hiring of local peoples, this policy further increased resentment against these formerly welcomed refugees.
Link
It wasn't strange that you chose not to find a complete and comprehensive source and posted unverified and unconfirmed stats and that too only from this side, discounting the massive involvement of Mohajirs in West Pakistan (such as Biharis).

Punjabi's have dominated the country ever since its creation, but that was not on merit, it was on sheer politics and power of population.

1. You made claim that before Punjabi's share in bureaucracy increased after introduction of quota system, which is factually wrong as the when Quota was introduced Punjab's share was already over 60% and after quota it actually decreased and the snap i posted clearly talks about Ayub's era as well link of book is there in my post. On other hand you are giving link of wiki article which have not cited any source to back the claims.

2. Now be honest about what you have quoted - does the paragraph you proudly quoted not tell that Urdu speakers dominance in bureaucracy for two decades was result of unfair favor hiring which had nothing to do with merit. And it also points out the fact that many of Urdu speakers were economic migrant as their relatives who once settled in Pakistan later called their relatives and handed over govt. jobs to them - they created monopoly in bureaucracy which was broken by Ayub and later by Bhutto.

That's not the point, you misunderstood and took it personally.

On merit, Urdu speaking would take up a lot more seats in the bureaucracy and other government positions simply because we are more educated over all. On merit, the breakup most likely would be 40-45% Karachi and Punjab (each), 10% Baluchistan and maybe just about 5% Sindh. You know what the reason for this is? Ask any of your Urdu speaking friend how much his parents spend on his education and/or how much he spends on the education of his/her children. The education of our children is a major chunk of our household income, as a community. We invest heavily in eduction which is not rivalled by other ethnicities on the same %.

LOL - Yeah it's only Urdu speakers who care about education of their children and every Urdu speaker is holding Phd - that's why non-Urdu speaker appear in different CSS exam than Urdu speakers - and CSS exams for non-Urdu speakers are made easier to help them to occupy allocated seats.

BTW - What's the success rate of Urdu speakers in competition of current quota for merit?

I know for a fact what would happen to the bureaucracy if the quota system is revoked. No wonder your Government has vetted and expanded the quota system for another 20 years.

In any case, let everyone cry but support merit.....it is for the better of the country and for the better of our next generation. It is also better, overall, for cohesion and unity besides better management and competent decision making.

I have already said - I support elimination of Quota system IF all non-Punjabis pledge that will not start crying foul.

I can take a wild guess where you hail from, from that comment in underline. It's either the same place or that you are incapable of analysing the harm that this quota system, and subsequent jobs given to rural Sindhis, has done to the country. Their only aim, after securing Government jobs, is to earn a haraam livelihood. They all want haraam rozi and haraam income, nothing else. I have not once come across a Sindhi who has entered the bureaucracy to actually serve the country.

You will be lucky to find honest bureaucrat - they are same irrespective of ethnicity.

 

[Mav3rick]

i dont play ethnic card so it doesnt mater from where i hail.

Yeah, I am sure you don't.

2. quota system indeed has its flaws in every society but Rural Sindhis are NOT to be blamed for it .

No, actually we must blame the supporters of quota system for, what was the pointless and meaningless word you used to describe massive corruption and insane incompetence, oh yes it was 'flaw'.

3 Thirdly it is not about only Sindhis but anyone even a urdu speaking/ a mohajir in govt job earn the same harram ki rozi and also those who are earning at gun point and extortion if that is NOT haraam ki rozi?

Trying to justify 1 wrong with another is, most likely, also HARAAM. However, what would you know.

 

[Spring Onion]

No, actually we must blame the supporters of quota system for, what was the pointless and meaningless word you used to describe massive corruption and insane incompetence, oh yes it was 'flaw'

the ones you are defending are also part of the same flaw so dont do that

Trying to justify 1 wrong with another is, most likely, also HARAAM. However, what would you know.

i was merely pointing out that when you are committing same crime you dont have any moral right to point fingers at others.

the title of the thread and content is nothing more than rondoopana

 

[Mav3rick]

1. You made claim that before Punjabi's share in bureaucracy increased after introduction of quota system, which is factually wrong as the when Quota was introduced Punjab's share was already over 60% and after quota it actually decreased and the snap i posted clearly talks about Ayub's era as well link of book is there in my post. On other hand you are giving link of wiki article which have not cited any source to back the claims.

Punjab's share in bureaucracy increased by 15-20% after introduction of quota system (they had a max of 40-45% before that), share of rural Sindhis rose to 14% (it was 0% before that). It was all to the detriment of the most educated class, and it was all based on ethnic hatred. Besides, the quota in all federal government organizations was 60% for Punjab not too long ago. In any case, Punjab actually gained after the quota system was introduced and so did the highly illiterate Sindhi.

2. Now be honest about what you have quoted - does the paragraph you proudly quoted not tell that Urdu speakers dominance in bureaucracy for two decades was result of unfair favor hiring which had nothing to do with merit. And it also points out the fact that many of Urdu speakers were economic migrant as their relatives who once settled in Pakistan later called their relatives and handed over govt. jobs to them - they created monopoly in bureaucracy which was broken by Ayub and later by Bhutto.

Regardless, they were still selecting people on merit. Actually, even today we consider the worst trait of Mohajirs to be selection of employees on merit rather then their ethnicity, unlike all the other ethnicities.

And why wouldn't you want a better, organized, educated and competent person at the helm of affairs is beyond me.

LOL - Yeah it's only Urdu speakers who care about education of their children and every Urdu speaker is holding Phd - that's why non-Urdu speaker appear in different CSS exam than Urdu speakers - and CSS exams for non-Urdu speakers are made easier to help them to occupy allocated seats.

As a % of overall ethnic communal population, the Urdu speaking outspend all other ethnicities, combined! Today, Urdu speaking community strongly discourages their children from sitting in CSS or similar examination because the resultant job would entail, and enforce, corrupt practices.....which the Urdu speaking community strongly despises.

BTW - What's the success rate of Urdu speakers in competition of current quota for merit?

Above all others, on merit.

I have already said - I support elimination of Quota system IF all non-Punjabis pledge that will not start crying foul.

Why care about those who may cry in favour of foul practices? Think of the country and of the next generation.

You will be lucky to find honest bureaucrat - they are same irrespective of ethnicity.

No, that is not correct. Usually the Sindhis are extremists in corruption and incompetence then come the Pashtun who are extremely good at cheating as well and then come Punjabis and Urdu Speaking. Atleast with the Urdu speaking, you atleast get a competent person.

Consider Zardari to be extremely corrupt and incompetent and this is why Pakistan lost a got lot in the past 5 years. However, if the same Zardari was extremely competent and had installed a competent Government, he would not only prospered himself, the whole country would have prospered. Basically, corrupt I can digest but incompetent I cannot!

the ones you are defending are also part of the same flaw so dont do that

And who exactly am I defending other then the Urdu speaking, the only ones who actually deserve defending.

i was merely pointing out that when you are committing same crime you dont have any moral right to point fingers at others.

the title of the thread and content is nothing more than rondoopana

What crime have I committed and where have I defended anybody's 'rondoopana'??

 

[HAIDER]

In Sind non Sindhi shouldn't worry. Sindhi are basically the most lazy people . PPP doing its best, but its another fail attempt.

 

[Multani]

This is the work of PPP mostly. These feudal over lords would never want to see Sindhi and Urdu Speaking people living in peace together.

I agree. They are the REAL cancer of Pakistan. Not TTP.

TTP is a temporary issue. These waderas are like chameleons. They have changed colour with time, but they are still there.

NS is a wadera

In Sind non Sindhi shouldn't worry. Sindhi are basically the most lazy people . PPP doing its best, but its another fail attempt.

 

[Sugarcane]

Punjab's share in bureaucracy increased by 15-20% after introduction of quota system (they had a max of 40-45% before that), share of rural Sindhis rose to 14% (it was 0% before that). It was all to the detriment of the most educated class, and it was all based on ethnic hatred. Besides, the quota in all federal government organizations was 60% for Punjab not too long ago. In any case, Punjab actually gained after the quota system was introduced and so did the highly illiterate Sindhi.

Repeating same thing again n again will not make it truth unless you present stats backed with credible source.

Regardless, they were still selecting people on merit. Actually, even today we consider the worst trait of Mohajirs to be selection of employees on merit rather then their ethnicity, unlike all the other ethnicities.
And why wouldn't you want a better, organized, educated and competent person at the helm of affairs is beyond me.

No - newly farmed state was not in position to ensure merits and Urdu speakers were given jobs to settle them - later they formed monopoly and started favoring their community in hiring.

Sure i do want honest, educated and competent person to give charge but will not buy the delusional assertion that only Urdu speakers posses these qualities.

As a % of overall ethnic communal population, the Urdu speaking outspend all other ethnicities, combined! Today, Urdu speaking community strongly discourages their children from sitting in CSS or similar examination because the resultant job would entail, and enforce, corrupt practices.....which the Urdu speaking community strongly despises.

Again any source to prove the sweeping statement of Urdu speaker outspending all other communities combined? Discouraging children from CSS than why you are whining about quota?

Above all others, on merit.

Again a statement without any prove - while in same post you are claiming that your parents are discourage from CSS/

Why care about those who may cry in favour of foul practices? Think of the country and of the next generation.

Punjab & Punjabis have been punching bag for long - i want end of this.

No, that is not correct. Usually the Sindhis are extremists in corruption and incompetence then come the Pashtun who are extremely good at cheating as well and then come Punjabis and Urdu Speaking. Atleast with the Urdu speaking, you atleast get a competent person.

Now gun's direction is towards Sindhi - for your kind information to pass CSS person have to qualified and competent enough. Regarding corruption and malpractice - all are same.

Consider Zardari to be extremely corrupt and incompetent and this is why Pakistan lost a got lot in the past 5 years. However, if the same Zardari was extremely competent and had installed a competent Government, he would not only prospered himself, the whole country would have prospered. Basically, corrupt I can digest but incompetent I cannot!

Bureaucrats are always in lap of government no matter who is sitting on chair. That trait is as much old as Pakistan is.

 

[Mav3rick]

Repeating same thing again n again will not make it truth unless you present stats backed with credible source.

I did present a link, just one of many.....all you have to do is google. But it will always be sort of opinions and not hard facts because there is no such record, anywhere. Kind of pointless arguing about it if you do not want to listen to reason and just be stubborn.

No - newly farmed state was not in position to ensure merits and Urdu speakers were given jobs to settle them - later they formed monopoly and started favoring their community in hiring.

That could not be further from the truth. The migrants were mostly highly educated and thus were already a part of the British Indian bureaucracy. Most of them were just reciprocated jobs in the newly created state. For example, my Paternal grand father was a collector in India and he became a collector in Pakistan. Similarly, my maternal grand father was a businessman and he started his own business.

Sure i do want honest, educated and competent person to give charge but will not buy the delusional assertion that only Urdu speakers posses these qualities.

Then stop defending the quota system and flaws of your kin. Did not you Government extend the quota system for another 20 years, just a few months back?

Again any source to prove the sweeping statement of Urdu speaker outspending all other communities combined? Discouraging children from CSS than why you are whining about quota?

Well, why don't you take a look at how many schools there are in Karachi and what their average fee/child is, how many universities and colleges are in Karachi, how much average rate of tuition is and so on and I guess we won't have to argue over it any more.

Again a statement without any prove - while in same post you are claiming that your parents are discourage from CSS/

Some things just do not require proof. You have any doubts?

Punjab & Punjabis have been punching bag for long - i want end of this.

Well, it cannot happen. People think that Punjab has been unfair and unjust with the other provinces. It has discriminatory attitude towards all other provinces. Can any other country boast of a single province strong enough to form the federal Government all alone, on its own? Think about it.

Now gun's direction is towards Sindhi - for your kind information to pass CSS person have to qualified and competent enough. Regarding corruption and malpractice - all are same.

If only you had ever lived somewhere in Sindh. My problem with Sindhis is that they are not only extremely corrupt and supremely lazy, they are also highly incompetent and still occupy the top positions in all corridors of bureaucracy.

Bureaucrats are always in lap of government no matter who is sitting on chair. That trait is as much old as Pakistan is.

Being in lap of Government is 1 thing but being incapable of serving and being incompetent altogether is different.

 

[Sugarcane]

I did present a link, just one of many.....all you have to do is google. But it will always be sort of opinions and not hard facts because there is no such record, anywhere. Kind of pointless arguing about it if you do not want to listen to reason and just be stubborn.





That could not be further from the truth. The migrants were mostly highly educated and thus were already a part of the British Indian bureaucracy. Most of them were just reciprocated jobs in the newly created state. For example, my Paternal grand father was a collector in India and he became a collector in Pakistan. Similarly, my maternal grand father was a businessman and he started his own business.





Then stop defending the quota system and flaws of your kin. Did not you Government extend the quota system for another 20 years, just a few months back?





Well, why don't you take a look at how many schools there are in Karachi and what their average fee/child is, how many universities and colleges are in Karachi, how much average rate of tuition is and so on and I guess we won't have to argue over it any more.





Some things just do not require proof. You have any doubts?





Well, it cannot happen. People think that Punjab has been unfair and unjust with the other provinces. It has discriminatory attitude towards all other provinces. Can any other country boast of a single province strong enough to form the federal Government all alone, on its own? Think about it.





If only you had ever lived somewhere in Sindh. My problem with Sindhis is that they are not only extremely corrupt and supremely lazy, they are also highly incompetent and still occupy the top positions in all corridors of bureaucracy.





Being in lap of Government is 1 thing but being incapable of serving and being incompetent altogether is different.

Well - It seems like no amount of education & facts can undo the brainwashing done since childhood.

 

[Jaanbaz]

I agree. They are the REAL cancer of Pakistan. Not TTP.
TTP is a temporary issue. These waderas are like chameleons. They have changed colour with time, but they are still there.
NS is a wadera

TTP type of organisation sprung up because of corruption and increased extremism in the Pakistani society. All parties that have been in government are part of the problem.

 

[Ghareeb_Da_Baal]

lol my punjabi friend got admission in mehran university of karachi based on his punjab domicile, its my personal experience, punjabis in karachi do get royal treatment based on their punjab domicile

bitch, my g.f got admitted to NCA in Lahore because of Baluchistan domicile. She did not make the list the 1st time she tried( as a resident of Lahore)
without the domicile. She studied to be an architect.Ask me how I know!

 

[Thorough Pro]

People who do nothing (except mafia, gangsta, and terrorist activities) only point fingers and W11 is one such

Man some punjabi really did a number on you to make you this sadistic. So Basically you are suffering from inferiority complex despite living in metropolitan city like karachi. There is quota in each province for other provinces so stop giving lame excuses to justify your hate for punjabis.

 

[Mav3rick]

Well - It seems like no amount of education & facts can undo the brainwashing done since childhood.

I don't really want to waste any more of my time but still want to put a thought across, to you and others. What would be the best of the following 3 hypothetical situations, for the country:

1. An incompetent and corrupt bureaucracy
2. A competent but corrupt bureaucracy
3. An incompetent but honest bureaucracy

Just think carefully and let me know what is the best solution in the above circumstances. What would you prefer and why.