Diplomats warn of India-Pakistan nuclear exchange: WikiLeaks

[F-16_Falcon]

Pakistan army and our missiles with nuclear weapons are always ready to face any threat from india. Pak Sar Zameen is always protected by the mighty Pakistan army.

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

assalam alaikum

Pak sarzameen is protected by Almighty Allah , awam who have given a lot to the armed forces and army. Yes our army , missiles r ready for our enemies make no mistakes.

cheers

TARIQ

 

[F-16_Falcon]

assalam alaikum

Wa Alaykum-us-Salam Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakaatuh

Pak sarzameen is protected by Almighty Allah ,

It is protected by Allah, Pakistan army and ISI from 14th august 1947. Do not forget the army and ISI.

 

[IBRIS]

talismi chaabi?

Ali baba and chalee chors had already been dispatched to the site. It's a matter of how will they tame the scorpions with a secret code.

 

[notorious_eagle]

one of the first emotional posts from you Mastan...
why do you discount the ability and capacity to sustain war?
agreed your army is half our size...
but what about attrition?
what about the industrial capacity?
during a war...neither the KSE would run nor the BSE...markets would be closed...merchant channels clear of any trade.
It then comes to our internal capacity to sustain a full-out war...
You talk about causing heavy damages??
the way things stand there is no qualitative nor any quantitative conventional advantage PA or PAF or PN has over us....
you are upgrading...but so are we...
Let us be realistic...discount any external help...how long would Pakistan last a full scale war which would only be defensive for you?

First of all your assumption is completely flawed, your assuming that both India and Pakistan will fight a long static war in which eventually India will prevail due to her bigger size. If the past wars of 1965 and 1971 are something to go by, a ceasefire is likely going to be signed in a couple of weeks. That was than, lets talk about today. With both countries having nuclear tipped missiles, an armed confrontation will immediately bring in the world's major powers and they will use all their diplomatic and economic muscle to force both countries to agree to a ceasefire. So in my calculation, an armed conflict between Pakistan and India would not last more than a couple of days.

If their is going to be a future conflict between India and Pakistan, it will be short but very intense. If you look at your countries military doctrine, it is gearing up to fight a short/intense war and not a long static war which is based on attrition. In a short war the scales are quiet even between both the countries, if India is able to inflict damage on Pakistan than so can Pakistan on India. PAF, PA and PN are quite well equipped and trained to fight off any misadventure from the Indian side. If the Indian side felt they had overwhelming superiority against Pakistan, trust me they would have acted after 2002 or 2008. They didn't because your war planners were quite aware of the fact that Pakistan was perfectly capable of giving a bloody noose to India, which was politically unacceptable. Their have been several instances when Indian war planners tried to outmanoeuvre Pakistan by deploying their troops in sensitive areas, but Pakistan checked those with counter deployments due to our quick mobility. Its good for chest thumping that we have SU30MKI, Brahmos, Mirage 2000 etc etc but in reality when you look at the picture as a whole, things are pretty much even if you factor out how the entire conflict is going to be fought. Whether you like to admit it or not, Pakistan is immune to a military strike from India. I can understand the frustration considering how you guys have spent billions in trying to outmanoeuvre Pakistan, but have failed to do so.

 

[paritosh]

First of all your assumption is completely flawed, your assuming that both India and Pakistan will fight a long static war in which eventually India will prevail due to her bigger size. If the past wars of 1965 and 1971 are something to go by, a ceasefire is likely going to be signed in a couple of weeks. That was than, lets talk about today. With both countries having nuclear tipped missiles, an armed confrontation will immediately bring in the world's major powers and they will use all their diplomatic and economic muscle to force both countries to agree to a ceasefire. So in my calculation, an armed conflict between Pakistan and India would not last more than a couple of days.

If their is going to be a future conflict between India and Pakistan, it will be short but very intense. If you look at your countries military doctrine, it is gearing up to fight a short/intense war and not a long static war which is based on attrition. In a short war the scales are quiet even between both the countries, if India is able to inflict damage on Pakistan than so can Pakistan on India. PAF, PA and PN are quite well equipped and trained to fight off any misadventure from the Indian side. If the Indian side felt they had overwhelming superiority against Pakistan, trust me they would have acted after 2002 or 2008. They didn't because your war planners were quite aware of the fact that Pakistan was perfectly capable of giving a bloody noose to India, which was politically unacceptable. Their have been several instances when Indian war planners tried to outmanoeuvre Pakistan by deploying their troops in sensitive areas, but Pakistan checked those with counter deployments due to our quick mobility. Its good for chest thumping that we have SU30MKI, Brahmos, Mirage 2000 etc etc but in reality when you look at the picture as a whole, things are pretty much even if you factor out how the entire conflict is going to be fought. Whether you like to admit it or not, Pakistan is immune to a military strike from India. I can understand the frustration considering how you guys have spent billions in trying to outmanoeuvre Pakistan, but have failed to do so.

Yes...it is absolutely true what you say...a long war is unlikely...now that there is a risk of nuclear escalation..
and so is the likelyhood of winning a short war...
the battle-objectives would be to dismantle "terror-camps"...bomb industrial installations and sorts....or a quick capture of territory to bring the other party to negotiate on our terms...
so the definition of victory would not be the complete dismemeberment of the Pakistani force or Indian for that matter...
and hence like all the previous wars....the outcome would be questionable...
my post was about the what ifs of a full scale war of attrition...or a long war which would strain and cramp the resources and the economy....factors which weren't considered in Mastan's post....
I do not seek to duel here...but just that we are in a much better position to absorb and sustain war...not based on the su-30s or mirages or subs or troopers we have but based on our industrial capacity...the size of our economy and the size of our work force...

 

[MastanKhan]

one of the first emotional posts from you Mastan...
why do you discount the ability and capacity to sustain war?
agreed your army is half our size...
but what about attrition?
what about the industrial capacity?
during a war...neither the KSE would run nor the BSE...markets would be closed...merchant channels clear of any trade.
It then comes to our internal capacity to sustain a full-out war...
You talk about causing heavy damages??
the way things stand there is no qualitative nor any quantitative conventional advantage PA or PAF or PN has over us....
you are upgrading...but so are we...
Let us be realistic...discount any external help...how long would Pakistan last a full scale war which would only be defensive for you?

Hi,

Sir, when I talk to my countrymen, it is on a different level---I am trying to bring out an awakening---.

I am a firm believer of the fact that---IN ORDER FOR YOU TO SUCCEED---YOU OUGHT TO FEAR THE CHALLENGE---that makes you prepare and get ready for the inevitable in a better manner.

Secondly---our strikes forces were never defencive in nature, in manner, in style or in mindset.

Pakistan could possibly last a full scale war as long as india----the reasoning---during the kargil affair---the indian army ran out of ammunition.

The next war is not going to be fought by the millitaries alone on pakistan's side----but deep in the indian cities as well---.

Mumbai has shown us that indian security forces are extremely incompetent and inept and barely have enough weapons and transportation to move inside the country at will. Their outdated weaponery will hold them back.

This time---all the insurgent groups will be out amass and at full strike capabilities to bring down the indian cities to a standstill---.

Remember---this war will be fought in the heartland of hindustan---at hindustan's electronic hubs and not alone on pakistani soil---.

Even though many a times I have torn apart my pakistani compatriates for wanting war---and acting without fear---and I will keep doing that as long I am here on this board---it does not mean that the indian army has a free hand.

We didnot ask for mumbai to happen----let me assure you of that---but the reaction that came out of the mumbai attack has opened up new venues in case there is another war between india and pakistan.

Le stop here momentarily.

 

[paritosh]

Hi,

Sir, when I talk to my countrymen, it is on a different level---I am trying to bring out an awakening---.

I am a firm believer of the fact that---IN ORDER FOR YOU TO SUCCEED---YOU OUGHT TO FEAR THE CHALLENGE---that makes you prepare and get ready for the inevitable in a better manner.

Secondly---our strikes forces were never defencive in nature, in manner, in style or in mindset.[

No strike forces are...defensive...
in practicality...your armed forces are defensive...for the numbers and resources that you have at your disposal.

Pakistan could possibly last a full scale war as long as india----the reasoning---during the kargil affair---the indian army ran out of ammunition.

How'd you explain that???the Indian army ran out of ordinance???
give me a source on this...a good one...
How'd Pakistan manage that?There is nosense...what is the annual gross iron ore output of Pakistan?
compare it with that of India the second largest producer of iron ore...
compare the steel production...number of barrels of oil produced...per year...
energy production...total number of anything to anything...
post something that backs this claim...what is the total number of ordinance factories and depots in Pakistan?

The next war is not going to be fought by the millitaries alone on pakistan's side----but deep in the indian cities as well---.

Mumbai has shown us that indian security forces are extremely incompetent and inept and barely have enough weapons and transportation to move inside the country at will. Their outdated weaponery will hold them back.

Deep in Indian cities??
let us talk about Pakistani ciities...what is the average number of bomb attacks in Pakistan?compare it with that in India...
what is average number of people dying in terror attacks in pakistan per 1000 persons?compare it with India...
Mumbai was because of 10 armed and trained pakistanis attacking a hotel full of tourists...not the headquarters of the FIA or a police jail...or the army barracks...as happens in Pakistan...
barely have enough transportation?what made you say that?
as far as our internal matters of policing are concerned...we have never had a reason to arm the common police wala with anything more than a glock or a sten gun...I don't know what your point is...for bigger threats we have the NSG...the paras....

This time---all the insurgent groups will be out amass and at full strike capabilities to bring down the indian cities to a standstill---.

like when?which Indian city has been brought to a standstill by any insurgent group?
au contraire i can name all the major pakistani cities having been brought to a standstill by ttp...and fanatics like those of lalmasjid..
Is it not true that Islamabad and karachi have military checkpoints all over???none of the Indian cities has that....even the naxal areas have the police and the CRPF people engaged....jawans you'd never face in any war...

Remember---this war will be fought in the heartland of hindustan---at hindustan's electronic hubs and not alone on pakistani soil---.

you sound like a hindutva fanatic....by whom osama bin laden?
see Mastan...I appreciate you writing this...try to make it all simple by not mentioning things you can't prove...or your dream scenarios...I am all for things we can agree and disagree on based on facts and figures...

We didnot ask for mumbai to happen----let me assure you of that---but the reaction that came out of the mumbai attack has opened up new venues in case there is another war between india and pakistan.

Le stop here momentarily.

let me ask you one thing...long time back we shot your atlantique recon unarmed plane in times of peace over disputed territory...could you do anything about it?
the americans pound missiles everyday ino your badlands....have you done anything about it???
there is so much of foreign interference in your internal matters and in the formulation of your external policy...you have fought battles and civil wars with factions in your own territory ridden tanks against mullahs with kalashnikovs....
if we have had internal strifes you have had worse...so lets keep our discussion focussed on the strenght of our militaries and their numbers and arsenal...and the sustainability...

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir,

I don't need to provide with any link---you can do your research---. The indian army ran out of ammo for the 155 mm howitzers----the news is around in the papers----you can find it----buyers went to israel and south africa---.

We are talking about 2002 and now scenario---. Before that we didnot even have the delivery system in place---.

I am not here to argue---I have given you my perspective without any personal comments---and that is where it stands.

 

[paritosh]

Sir,

I don't need to provide with any link---you can do your research---. The indian army ran out of ammo for the 155 mm howitzers----the news is around in the papers----you can find it----buyers went to israel and south africa---.

We are talking about 2002 and now scenario---. Before that we didnot even have the delivery system in place---.

I am not here to argue---I have given you my perspective without any personal comments---and that is where it stands.

Indian army ran out of amo for the howitzers is vastly different from writing that the Indian army ran out of ammunition...
It is widely known that we are going for an intensive field gun upgrade and have a tender out for that...
your previous post was full of things you wanted to happen...hear-say...
talking about military short-comings is one thing...but devising scenarios and depending on imaginary allies and internal strife is beyond logic.

 

[Trampler]

This might just be propoganda by the West to sell more weapons and missile shield systems.

 

[mannamanna]

I read an excerpt of a speech by NSA Shiv Shankar Menon where he mentioned NFU against non nuclear weapon states. Dont know if it was a slip of tongue or a change in policy? If the latter, it would mean a big change for Indian policy.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Pakistan should also start focussing on underground infrastructure so that we could protect our population in case of a nuke exchange...

Since we do not have metro lines... would the typical basement that we have in many of our houses suffice? How about lining it with lead sheets to protect against radiation?? I think our military strategist should at least think about that... also secondary and tertiary command structures should be thought about so that in case of disconnection of comms local commanders could continue battle and the same should hold true for government...

 

[LeGenD]

Pakistan should also start focussing on underground infrastructure so that we could protect our population in case of a nuke exchange...

Excellent point.

However, primary issues are inadequate planning, resources, and huge population. And sheltering thousands would be lot easier than millions.

Since we do not have metro lines... would the typical basement that we have in many of our houses suffice? How about lining it with lead sheets to protect against radiation?? I think our military strategist should at least think about that... also secondary and tertiary command structures should be thought about so that in case of disconnection of comms local commanders could continue battle and the same should hold true for government...

Typical basement is as useless as staying in your home at the time of the blast.

Only specially built (very deep) shelters protected by powerful blast doors can be safe in or near ground zero - provided that the blast doors manage to survive the ordeal.

Also, survivors would eventually need to get out of their hiding places in search for food and other resources. Therefore, escape from exposure to radiation is unlikely.

In addition, I think that mostly influential people would get access to such special shelters (if they are planned to be built).

The horrors of nuclear war are unimaginable. The sad thing is that people generally talk about nukes as if they are like ordinary bullets waiting to be fired.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

The only thing I would add to your first point is that our primary problem is (was, has been) an incompetent and corrupt government...