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Diffrences Between White House and Pentagon over India

India does not align itself with any axis, u enjoy jumping from one group to the other thats your choice, you sell your wares to the highest payer thats business. We think a bit differently.



The one that dumped Soviets in the 90s and played up to Americans[

Did the soviets tell you that, show me one proof that says something to that effect by the soviets. You can assume anything to your own convenience.
 
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I would say that M.K.Bhadrakumar a diplomat in the Indian Foreign Service. Devoted 3-decade long career to the Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran desks in the Ministry of External Affairs and in assignments on the territory of the former Soviet Union. Other diplomatic assignments abroad included as Ambassador to Turkey and Uzbekistan and Acting/Deputy High Commissioner in Islamabad, besides postings in the Indian Missions in Bonn, Colombo and Seoul. Briefly held charge as Charge d’Affaires in the Indian embassies in Kuwait and Kabul knows more than you arm chair internet warriors this is what he had to say:

Dai Bingguo heading for Islamabad

Francis Fukuyama wrote a sequel to his celebrated book The End of History and the Last Man (1992) no sooner than he realised that he was hopelessly wrong in his prediction that the global triumph of political and economic liberalism was at hand. He wrote: “What we may be witnessing is not just the end of the Cold War, or the crossing of a particular period of postwar history, but the end of history as such… That is, the end point of mankind’s ideological evolution and the universalization of Western democracy as the final form of human government.” But in no time he realised his rush to judgment and he retracted with another book.

However, unlike the celebrated American neocon thinker, Indian foreign policy thinkers who were heavily influenced by his 1992 thesis are yet to retract. The Indian discourses through the 1990s drew heavily from Fukuyama to throw overboard the scope for reinventing or reinterpreting ‘non-alignment’ in the post-Cold War setting and came to a rapid judgment that Russia belonged to the dustbin of history. Our discourses never really got updated despite Fukumaya’s own retraction.

Indeed, western commentators also fuelled the consequent sense of insecurity in Delhi through the 1990s by endorsing that India would never have a ‘Russia option’ again and Boris Yeltsin’s Russia itself was inexorably becoming an ‘ally’ of the west — and, therefore, what alternative is there for India but to take to the New American Century project? Remember the drama of the Bill Clinton administration arm-twisting Yeltsin not to give to India the cryogentic engines?

In sum, India got entrapped in a ‘unipolar predicament’. The best elucidation of this self-invited predicament has been the masterly work titled Crossing the Rubicon by Raja Mohan, which was of course widely acclaimed in the US. While releasing the book at a function in Delhi, the then National Security Advisor Brajesh Mishra even admitted that India’s main foreign policy challenge was somehow to engage the US’s “attention”.

Russia, of course, went on to prove our pundits completely wrong. Russia remerged as a global player and the evidence of it is today spread (and is poised to expand) all across global theatres — Libya, Syria, Iran, Central Asia, Afghanistan, etc.
Why I am underscoring all this is that I am strongly reminded of that sad chapter in the recent history of India’s foreign policy when I see the huge ‘psywar’ being let loose on Pakistan currently when that country too is at a crossroads with regard to its future policy directions in a highly volatile external enviornment.

In Pakistan’s case, the ‘psywar’ substitutes Russia with China. The US’s ‘Track II’ thesis is that China is hopelessly marooned in its own malaise so much so that it has no time, interest or resources to come to Pakistan’s aid, the two countries’ ‘all-weather friendship’ notwithstanding. Let me cull out two fine pieces of this ongoing ‘psywar’.

One is the lengthy article featured by America’s prestigious flag-carrier Foreign Affairs magazine in early December titled “China’s Pakistan conundrum”. Its argument is: ‘China will not simply bail out Pakistan with loans, investment, and aid, as those watching the deterioration of US-Pakistani relations seem to expect. China will pursue politics, security, and geopolitical advantage regardless of Islamabad’s preferences’. It puts forth the invidious argument that China’s real use for Pakistan is only to “box out New Delhi in Afghanistan and the broader region.”

Alongside the argument is the highly-tendentious vector that is beyond easy verification, namely, that US and China are increasingly ‘coordinating’ their policies toward Pakistan. Diplomacy is part dissimulation and we simply don’t know whether the US and China are even anywhere near beginning to ‘coordinate’ about ‘coordinating’ their regional policies in South Asia, especially with regard to Pakistan (and Afghanistan). The odds are that while the US and China may have some limited convergent interests, conceivably, their strategic interests are most certainly in sharp conflict.

A milder version of this frontal attack by US pundits on Pakistan’s existential dilemma appears in Michael Krepon’s article last week titled ‘Pakistan’s Patrons’, which, curiously, counsels Islamabad to follow India’s foreign-policy footsteps and make up with the US. Krepon literally suggests that the Pakistanis are living in a fool’s paradise.

The obvious thrust of this ‘psywar’ — strikingly similar to what India was subjected to in the 1990s — is that Pakistan has no option but to fall in line with the US regional strategies, as it has no real ‘China option’. The main difference between India and Pakistan is that the foreign policy elites in Islamabad — unlike their Indian counterparts — are not inclined to buy into the US argument with a willing suspension of disbelief.
In a way, the Sino-Pakistan relationship is proving once again to be resilient. Pakistan is in no mood to get into a ‘unipolar predicament’, as the Indian elites willingly did in the 1990s.

Thus, the visit by the Chinese delegation led by State Councilor, Dai Bingguo to Islamabad at this point in time assumes much significance. Dai is one of the highest-ranking figures in the Chinese foreign-policy establishment and the fact he is leading a delegation that includes of senior Chinese military officials is very significant. Dai is scheduled to meet not only Pakistan’s political leadership at the highest level but also army chief Ashfaq Kayani and ISI head Ahmed Shuja Pasha.

Obviously, Beijing is making a big point through the timing of this visit as well, which, incidentally, is taking place at a time of great uncertainties in Pakistan’s internal affairs. When it comes to relations with China, it must be assumed that Pakistan’s civil and military leaderships are together.

Dai doesn’t really have a US counterpart as he is ranked above the FM. Arguably, it would be secretary of state Hillary Clinton. If so, to what extent Dai ‘coordinated’ his proposed visit with Clinton will be of particular interest. The future of the US’s ‘psywar’ on Pakistan is at stake.

The big question is whether this would be Dai’s last major trip to South Asia, as he is a key member of President Hu Jintao’s team and China is moving into a period of transition at the leadership level. Dai’s visit to Delhi for the Special Representatives meet was called off at the last minute.
Posted in Diplomacy, Politics.
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By M K Bhadrakumar – December 23, 2011

Dai Bingguo heading for Islamabad - Indian Punchline

---------- Post added at 10:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 PM ----------

India does not align itself with any axis, u enjoy jumping from one group to the other thats your choice, you sell your wares to the highest payer thats business. We think a bit differently.



The one that dumped Soviets in the 90s and played up to Americans[


Did the soviets tell you that, show me one proof that says something to that effect by the soviets. You can assume anything to your own convenience.


Just read the above article and then weep
:rofl:

---------- Post added at 10:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:00 PM ----------

India does not align itself with any axis, u enjoy jumping from one group to the other thats your choice, you sell your wares to the highest payer thats business. We think a bit differently.



The one that dumped Soviets in the 90s and played up to Americans[:rofl:


Did the soviets tell you that, show me one proof that says something to that effect by the soviets. You can assume anything to your own convenience.


Just read the above article and then weep
:rofl:
 
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Americans Are torn.

They FEAR the rise of CHINA TODAY and potentially INDIA tomro ie 10 years away.

They want INDIAN strategic aliance BUT do not want to GET SO BIG that it cant be manipulated like smaller allies TODAY .

WHITE MAN wants to stay BIG DADDY.

But the ASIANS are coming headed by CHINA
 
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Americans Are torn.

They FEAR the rise of CHINA TODAY and potentially INDIA tomro ie 10 years away.

They want INDIAN strategic aliance BUT do not want to GET SO BIG that it cant be manipulated like smaller allies TODAY .

WHITE MAN wants to stay BIG DADDY.

But the ASIANS are coming headed by CHINA

That's the way we Asians should talk lol
 
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^^^^ damn you are good, so whats the conclusion, whom does US really want to ally with?

Well its a kind of Mexican Stand-Off...
India-US-China

US wants to support anyone of India and China, before India and China make a Indo-China Alliance:- The one and only Supreme Block.
But it wants some assurance that the one it supports does not pose a threat to US supremacy.

At present its beneficiary for US to side with India because China is not willing to side with US.

Even India does not want to side with US thanks to the history. It would love to side with China but is suspicious of Chinese aims.
So at present India is trying hard to maintain the thin line between a pure economic/business co-operation and an overall strategic alliance with the US. It is waiting for Chinese to be on its side.
 
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Well what I find intresting is that while the White House wants to be friends with India Pentagon prefers China and Pakistan.
Why India-
1> India has a clean n clear image all around the globe. India's rise as a regional/global power is accepted and welcomed all over the globe unlike that of China's which raises many eyebrows.

2> White House has been ditched many times by the Pakistan Government and especialy the ISI (Recent case of Osama Bin Laden in Abbottabad).

3> Billions of dollars have pushed down the pipeline to create a stablized ****** region and thousands of Americans have lost their lives all these years--Result:-Failure.

4> Pakistan is proving to be liablity over US which itself is facing worst economic crisis at present.

5> US needs a more reliable strategic alliance in the region which would ensure that Afganistan is stablized.

6> US needs to contain China which would be impossible to do with Pak as the partner.

7> US needs India's growing economic might to emerge out of its slowdown.

8> White House wants to assure its taxpayers that their money will not be wasted as before.

Why not India-
1> US generals are doubtful of India. They know India would not support US in any Iraq like situation.

2> Shift to India as friend would be a acceptance that the US Military Leadership had wrongly supported Pak since 47. It would be a virtual defeat and shame for Pentagon's intelligence.

4> US always want an alliance of a Boss(US) and Employes(alliance states). India's attitude is to acheive no less than 50-50 partnership. Rather make it 40-60.

5> India aims to be a global power which ultimately depriciates US postion... US generals do no like this.

6> India has clear goals. It wants peace but doesn't want to be bullied. It wants to be friends with China but on its own terms. If India succeeds in being friends with China which is on track; US would not be able to contain the Indo-China alliance. Thats a major concern for Pentagon.


Why Pakistan-
1> Pentagon believes that it can bully Pak govt and ISI more than ever before to achieve its goals.

2> US want an Islamic Nation to be its partner to contain the middle-east.

Why/Why not China-
1> By making China as its strategic-partner US gets many of its problem solved. North Korea would be solved, Pakistan would not be able to decieve and even India's aim to be a global power would suffer a huge blow.

2> But China is not ready to be allied with US. It aims are doubtful and so it is posed as a direct threat to US and world.

3> US is trying to read China and try to figure out an offer China can't reject.

4> However China is believed to be trying to be the one and only power in the world. That if ture is to be and can only be addressed with a friendly India.

So, diffrences b/w White House and Pentagon may continue to come out now n then.

Shitty crap.....
How old are you??
 
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Americans Are torn.

They FEAR the rise of CHINA TODAY and potentially INDIA tomro ie 10 years away.

They want INDIAN strategic aliance BUT do not want to GET SO BIG that it cant be manipulated like smaller allies TODAY .

WHITE MAN wants to stay BIG DADDY.

But the ASIANS are coming headed by CHINA

There is no such thing as asian. It is too big to be used as an identity. I have never seen an Indian identifying themselves as asian.
There are Indian, chinese, korean, thai, indonesians etc.
And within asia there is a competition among countries(nothing wrong with that).
 
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^^^^No not at all its America playing divide and rule. we need Asians to sort out our border issues and the world is ours lol

---------- Post added at 10:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:22 PM ----------

There is no such thing as asian. It is too big to be used as an identity. I have never seen an Indian identifying themselves as asian.
There are Indian, chinese, korean, thai, indonesians etc.
And within asia there is a competition among countries(nothing wrong with that).

The main problem borders are Pakistan China and India and we need to resolve these issues hopefully peacefully
 
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India expects a fair competition:-

NEW DELHI: Home minister P Chidambaram on Friday said there was no reason to envy China and New Delhi
should rather try to "emulate" Beijing in carrying out development works. "We should not fear competition from China.

There is no reason to envy China. If at all, we should try to emulate China," he said.

Addressing the 7th Northeast Business Summit, the home minister pointed
out that trade between India and China was booming and China had become India's largest single trading partner.

Stating that China, a competitor,
challenged India to compete on equal
terms, Chidambaram said if China could
build world class roads, India should be
able to build world class roads and if they could build world class railway lines, right up to Tibet, India should be able to do so across the northeastern states.
"And that is how it will be, it should be," he said.

The home minister's statement came
amid a controversy over the detention
and subsequent release of Indian
businessmen in Yiwu, China, following a
business dispute. Chidambaram said India had cordial relations with the three neighbouring countries - Bangladesh, Myanmar and China - which had borders in the northeast. "Today, we have Bangladesh, with whom we have the best of relations and Myanmar with whom we hope to have very good relations in the short term," he said.

Urging Indian businessmen to look at the potential of the northeast, the home
minister said, "Seize the opportunities of the northeast, grow businesses and help these states to grow along with the rest of India."
 
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As an Indian I would rather trust America over China and Pakistan. China and Pakistan seem determined to contain India through terrorism and Nuclear proliferation to its enemies.


Better to ally with fellow democracies than with Communism and Islamic extremism.
 
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Yes agree with you - only problem is India just love the association with the USA - they dont care if they are treated like 2nd class when it comes to dealings with the US. They just love the thought of Amreeeka and India! If only they could see beyond thier ego and backed the right horse and patch their differences with of couse China!

lol....soft trolling ? :azn:...unlike pakistan which is used by usa as a mercenary...india is using usa's paranoia about china and further her interests...like the nuke deal, afghan politics, hi-tech weapons etc....

also how bout china see beyond their ego (its more than ego..its national security) and patch their differences with india....surely then india will be there with open arms...till then its better we use of america's paranoia about china...
 
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Yes agree with you - only problem is India just love the association with the USA - they dont care if they are treated like 2nd class when it comes to dealings with the US. They just love the thought of Amreeeka and India! If only they could see beyond thier ego and backed the right horse and patch their differences with of couse China!

we do not get involved with any country like pakistan does....please retrospect activities of pakistan after 1947 and you will find that it was pakistan who jumped like little girl with america.....we do not take these things lightly and we will certainly never become slave of any other nation like of course your own country...their is huge difference between India and pakistan...pakistan always needs someone else's shoulder while india will always be non-aligned..Mind it!!!

and what the hell do you mean by 2nd class have you seen this video?? have you seen how british police is handling anuj bidwe murder case??

 
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When do you ever see the Americans saying "We the north americans" etc etc.

Continents dont mean **** its a geographical border which desperate people try to cling to to make themselves feel better.even "europe" has its own 2 political and cultural blocs.

and stop it with the white man crap last time i checked not all americans are white and its headed by a black person it just shows ur own racist tendencies by picking whites out when we speak of Iran do we call them the"Shias" or india the Hindus or China the Hans funny coming from people who live in britian for christ sake.
 
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