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Diffrences Between White House and Pentagon over India

India did not attack because India was not going to attack....what media and common people want is different that what government does...i guess everyone knew that India will not attack Pakistan considering it will look foolish on India's side to attack like that...

Both sides have their own version and we should probably leave it aside since it is tangential to the main topic here which is India/China/US relations.
 
Hillary Clinton will visit India in July-August.Indian Foreign Secretary Ranjan Mathai will meet her next week.Don'y know why Pakistanis are saying that US-India relationship is in bad shape.
 
Why should we? Bangladeshis and Pakistanis will be very happy to accept Chinese hegemony and live under a 'Chinese Asia'....not us. We want good relations with China but on our terms. As long as China continues to claim our territory and maintain their aggressive posture vis-a vis India , Sino-India relation will remain cold.

You know, it's funny how some of you guys position Bangladesh's relations with China at the same level as Pakistan's :lol:

China and Bangladesh aren't allies on paper, but only hold key strategic interests. It'd be optimal for Bangladesh to maintain amicable and balanced relations with both India and China, and what is best for the country. This should also come with the US being in the picture to act as an arbiter.

Yeah, I've seen the 'Indian Asia' version myself. And trust me, it ain't pretty :sick:

Economically they are sound despite debts.Their indigenous military is upto date and decent, except in certain areas. Also their huge industrial capability gives them the ability to militarize rapidly , only shortfall is the resources , which can come from USA and Canada.

The American influence on Japan actually is a stabilizing factor in the region . An independent Japan would have gone nuclear within no time and got into military conflicts with China and Russia.

Japan is a strong country - no doubt. But we have to see the reality here.

Even if Japan goes out on production and marketing of military equipment, it'd be at best limited and extremely expensive. Then, there'd be patent issues as well. The Americans simply won't allow any new competition for the global arms market, yes even against their allies.

The global arms market is an ugly world. Like they say: "if your competitors are drowning, put a water hose in their mouths."

Welcome to American Capitalism :D

I think it is unlikely that Japan would have gone nuclear after getting nuked twice.

The only power Japan can project is soft power at best. But then, Japan being a major non-NATO ally is good for the country and will remain that way forever.

I've been to Japan, and I can say they are the most disciplined and most humble.
 
India did not attack Pakistan after 26/11 because it could not. It simply does not have the military capability to conduct unilateral strikes without consequences. Indian ego may want you to believe otherwise, but that won't change reality.

Similarly, the Indian resentment of China comes through at every turn. From the Indian media taking silly potshots at China, to the Indians in real life who are all "hindi chini bhai bhai" up front, but never miss an opportunity to point out China's problems. It is telling that the number one priority for India, with its newfound wealth, is not social reforms, but military might. India is obsessed with symbols of power.

Like I wrote, Indian psychology is extremely transparent. The need for validation is there. And the resentment.

Well if you have edited the rhetoric commentary then I have no interest in jumping into this discussion.

Whether India has the capability to attack Pakistan or not is a different discussion but both Pakistan and China are unpredictable and impulsive is given.

I wouldn't bring Pakistan's foreign policy resume here to compare who is more simple to be explained in few lines.
India's fiercely independent foreign policy can not be described by your simplistic assertions, even Americans considers us non conducive; if you might have read what Pentagon Chief has said recently. There are many other examples I can refer to prove my point.
 
Yes agree with you - only problem is India just love the association with the USA - they dont care if they are treated like 2nd class when it comes to dealings with the US. They just love the thought of Amreeeka and India! If only they could see beyond thier ego and backed the right horse and patch their differences with of couse China!
China doesn't want a good relationship,some phases pass out nicely signalling towards a good build up they bring up the Visa issue(Like with an IAF officer from Arunachal recently).They don't seem to be cooperative.
 
Even if Japan goes out on production and marketing of military equipment, it'd be at best limited and extremely expensive. Then, there'd be patent issues as well. The Americans simply won't allow any new competition for the global arms market, yes even against their allies.

I was referring form the point of military strength , in the event of war the combined ability of massive manufacturing and decent technology gives the nation the much necessary ability to wage prolonged wars.


I think it is unlikely that Japan would have gone nuclear after getting nuked twice.

Exactly my reason why i believe Japan will go for nukes given a chance, there is a lesser chance of Japan will second strike capability being nuked rather than a Japan with no nukes.

The only power Japan can project is soft power at best. But then, Japan being a major non-NATO ally is good for the country and will remain that way forever.

I've been to Japan, and I can say they are the most disciplined and most humble.

As an Indian i hope it stays that way :)
 
I was referring form the point of military strength , in the event of war the combined ability of massive manufacturing and decent technology gives the nation the much necessary ability to wage prolonged wars.

Although I doubt the feasibility of Japan exporting advanced weapons, Japan's armed forces are not something to be underestimated.
 
Its a bit rich coming from you guys eh, given the history of Pakistan-America relationship. If allying with America is in India's interest we will do so. India has territorial disputes with China, so it will always be hostile towards India.

Roy - Pakistan leaders have been weak and the USA have long term bribed these weak corruptos and exploited our nation. Please dont mix the sentiments of our nations peoples with the donkeys we have in charge. Secondly if any rational thinking person from the outside looked into the situation in our region they would suggest it was in India and Chinas interest to sit down and thrash an agreement to their border dispute. I accept it will mean give and take but have a think. Who has interest in China and India not having closer links? Who wants to divide and rule? Who has historically shown they can simply not be trusted? - In all questions i ask we both know its the USA that simply want to divide and rule. India is far too big to be bullied or u to be used. Disregard the flags of the nations i bear in my avatar for a minute - and think rationally. I only want whats best for our region. Peace and prosperity in our region is paramount to achieve this.
 
Together [India + Russia + China + Pakistan ], we must destroy our common enemy US of A. and stop bullying each other fools. we don't want yet another white race doing **** with Asia again, we had enough. Asia ftw.
 
You know, it's funny how some of you guys position Bangladesh's relations with China at the same level as Pakistan's :lol:

China and Bangladesh aren't allies on paper, but only hold key strategic interests. It'd be optimal for Bangladesh to maintain amicable and balanced relations with both India and China, and what is best for the country. This should also come with the US being in the picture to act as an arbiter.

Thats exactly what we are doing. We have good relations with almost every country in the world except for China & Pakistan who challenges our territorial integrity.

Yeah, I've seen the 'Indian Asia' version myself. And trust me, it ain't pretty :sick:

I don't think India has any plans to become Asian leader as China aspires to be but if you think 'Indian Asia' is bad, you are free to join 'Chinese Asia'.

---------- Post added at 03:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:11 PM ----------

Together [India + Russia + China + Pakistan ], we must destroy our common enemy US of A. and stop bullying each other fools. we don't want yet another white race doing **** with Asia again, we had enough. Asia ftw.

False flag troll.
 
Yes agree with you - only problem is India just love the association with the USA - they dont care if they are treated like 2nd class when it comes to dealings with the US. They just love the thought of Amreeeka and India! If only they could see beyond thier ego and backed the right horse and patch their differences with of couse China!

:rofl::rofl:
i think u put India instead of pakistan bymistake.
 
False flag troll.
i don't think so.:argh:
i hate to be called "living in country as a puppet of US".
well you have the obvious choice to either agree with me or not, same way i have the right to say my opinion whether someone like it or not.
 
Roy - Pakistan leaders have been weak and the USA have long term bribed these weak corruptos and exploited our nation. Please dont mix the sentiments of our nations peoples with the donkeys we have in charge.

Who the civilians or army as it seems both were the stooges of US.


Secondly if any rational thinking person from the outside looked into the situation in our region they would suggest it was in India and Chinas interest to sit down and thrash an agreement to their border dispute. I accept it will mean give and take but have a think. Who has interest in China and India not having closer links? Who wants to divide and rule? Who has historically shown they can simply not be trusted? - In all questions i ask we both know its the USA that simply want to divide and rule.

Leftists, Jihadis and politically correct Intellectuals may agree wit you but blaming US for all our problems is sheer stupidity. Did US caused the Indo-Pakistan & Indo-China wars...No, on the otherhand US tried to help out Pakistan directly during 1971 and indirectly during 1965. China claims our entire Arunachal Pradesh for themselves. How can we talk peace with a nation who threatens our territorial integrity and tries to surrounds us geographically.

India is far too big to be bullied or u to be used. Disregard the flags of the nations i bear in my avatar for a minute - and think rationally. I only want whats best for our region. Peace and prosperity in our region is paramount to achieve this.

We take care of our fundamentalists and you take care of your fundamentalists and Army and voila ..Instant peace and harmony in SA. Also you conveniently forget that Pakistan brought US to SA first.
 
Is it too much to ask you Indians to read what your former Ambassador said before you go off at a tangent:


I would say that M.K.Bhadrakumar a diplomat in the Indian Foreign Service. Devoted 3-decade long career to the Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran desks in the Ministry of External Affairs and in assignments on the territory of the former Soviet Union. Other diplomatic assignments abroad included as Ambassador to Turkey and Uzbekistan and Acting/Deputy High Commissioner in Islamabad, besides postings in the Indian Missions in Bonn, Colombo and Seoul. Briefly held charge as Charge d’Affaires in the Indian embassies in Kuwait and Kabul knows more than you arm chair internet warriors this is what he had to say:

Dai Bingguo heading for Islamabad

Francis Fukuyama wrote a sequel to his celebrated book The End of History and the Last Man (1992) no sooner than he realised that he was hopelessly wrong in his prediction that the global triumph of political and economic liberalism was at hand. He wrote: “What we may be witnessing is not just the end of the Cold War, or the crossing of a particular period of postwar history, but the end of history as such… That is, the end point of mankind’s ideological evolution and the universalization of Western democracy as the final form of human government.” But in no time he realised his rush to judgment and he retracted with another book.

However, unlike the celebrated American neocon thinker, Indian foreign policy thinkers who were heavily influenced by his 1992 thesis are yet to retract. The Indian discourses through the 1990s drew heavily from Fukuyama to throw overboard the scope for reinventing or reinterpreting ‘non-alignment’ in the post-Cold War setting and came to a rapid judgment that Russia belonged to the dustbin of history. Our discourses never really got updated despite Fukumaya’s own retraction.

Indeed, western commentators also fuelled the consequent sense of insecurity in Delhi through the 1990s by endorsing that India would never have a ‘Russia option’ again and Boris Yeltsin’s Russia itself was inexorably becoming an ‘ally’ of the west — and, therefore, what alternative is there for India but to take to the New American Century project? Remember the drama of the Bill Clinton administration arm-twisting Yeltsin not to give to India the cryogentic engines?

In sum, India got entrapped in a ‘unipolar predicament’. The best elucidation of this self-invited predicament has been the masterly work titled Crossing the Rubicon by Raja Mohan, which was of course widely acclaimed in the US. While releasing the book at a function in Delhi, the then National Security Advisor Brajesh Mishra even admitted that India’s main foreign policy challenge was somehow to engage the US’s “attention”.

Russia, of course, went on to prove our pundits completely wrong. Russia remerged as a global player and the evidence of it is today spread (and is poised to expand) all across global theatres — Libya, Syria, Iran, Central Asia, Afghanistan, etc.
Why I am underscoring all this is that I am strongly reminded of that sad chapter in the recent history of India’s foreign policy when I see the huge ‘psywar’ being let loose on Pakistan currently when that country too is at a crossroads with regard to its future policy directions in a highly volatile external enviornment.

In Pakistan’s case, the ‘psywar’ substitutes Russia with China. The US’s ‘Track II’ thesis is that China is hopelessly marooned in its own malaise so much so that it has no time, interest or resources to come to Pakistan’s aid, the two countries’ ‘all-weather friendship’ notwithstanding. Let me cull out two fine pieces of this ongoing ‘psywar’.

One is the lengthy article featured by America’s prestigious flag-carrier Foreign Affairs magazine in early December titled “China’s Pakistan conundrum”. Its argument is: ‘China will not simply bail out Pakistan with loans, investment, and aid, as those watching the deterioration of US-Pakistani relations seem to expect. China will pursue politics, security, and geopolitical advantage regardless of Islamabad’s preferences’. It puts forth the invidious argument that China’s real use for Pakistan is only to “box out New Delhi in Afghanistan and the broader region.”

Alongside the argument is the highly-tendentious vector that is beyond easy verification, namely, that US and China are increasingly ‘coordinating’ their policies toward Pakistan. Diplomacy is part dissimulation and we simply don’t know whether the US and China are even anywhere near beginning to ‘coordinate’ about ‘coordinating’ their regional policies in South Asia, especially with regard to Pakistan (and Afghanistan). The odds are that while the US and China may have some limited convergent interests, conceivably, their strategic interests are most certainly in sharp conflict.

A milder version of this frontal attack by US pundits on Pakistan’s existential dilemma appears in Michael Krepon’s article last week titled ‘Pakistan’s Patrons’, which, curiously, counsels Islamabad to follow India’s foreign-policy footsteps and make up with the US. Krepon literally suggests that the Pakistanis are living in a fool’s paradise.

The obvious thrust of this ‘psywar’ — strikingly similar to what India was subjected to in the 1990s — is that Pakistan has no option but to fall in line with the US regional strategies, as it has no real ‘China option’. The main difference between India and Pakistan is that the foreign policy elites in Islamabad — unlike their Indian counterparts — are not inclined to buy into the US argument with a willing suspension of disbelief.
In a way, the Sino-Pakistan relationship is proving once again to be resilient. Pakistan is in no mood to get into a ‘unipolar predicament’, as the Indian elites willingly did in the 1990s.

Thus, the visit by the Chinese delegation led by State Councilor, Dai Bingguo to Islamabad at this point in time assumes much significance. Dai is one of the highest-ranking figures in the Chinese foreign-policy establishment and the fact he is leading a delegation that includes of senior Chinese military officials is very significant. Dai is scheduled to meet not only Pakistan’s political leadership at the highest level but also army chief Ashfaq Kayani and ISI head Ahmed Shuja Pasha.

Obviously, Beijing is making a big point through the timing of this visit as well, which, incidentally, is taking place at a time of great uncertainties in Pakistan’s internal affairs. When it comes to relations with China, it must be assumed that Pakistan’s civil and military leaderships are together.

Dai doesn’t really have a US counterpart as he is ranked above the FM. Arguably, it would be secretary of state Hillary Clinton. If so, to what extent Dai ‘coordinated’ his proposed visit with Clinton will be of particular interest. The future of the US’s ‘psywar’ on Pakistan is at stake.

The big question is whether this would be Dai’s last major trip to South Asia, as he is a key member of President Hu Jintao’s team and China is moving into a period of transition at the leadership level. Dai’s visit to Delhi for the Special Representatives meet was called off at the last minute.
Posted in Diplomacy, Politics.
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By M K Bhadrakumar – December 23, 2011

Dai Bingguo heading for Islamabad - Indian Punchline

---------- Post added at 10:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 PM ----------




Just read the above article and then weep
:rofl:

---------- Post added at 10:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:00 PM ----------




Just read the above article and then weep
:rofl:
 

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