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Did we get independence in 1971? Or is Bangladesh a colony of India?

Did we get independence in 1971? Or did we become a colony of India?


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There are two Naimatullah Shah wali one Persian you described above, and other one I am talking about was from India

=================
http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00litlinks/naim/txt_naim_prophecies_2011.pdf
--------------------------
Ni’matullah Wali is famous in India as a man of vision and a prefect
saint. He was born in the environs of Delhi, and his time (zamana) was
560 AH [1165 AD], as is known from the collection of his poems, where
these verses, famous in Hindustan, are found. They are published here
since they contain a description of the [expected] Mahdi. Written on
the 25th of Muharram, 1268
------------------------
“a Shah Ni’matullah Wali buried at Shivpur near Gwalior”
=========================


That link you established Proved Wonderful - Please follow one more Inside (Rockfeller foundation) from that link
India-Pakistan Final Showdown and the Year 2027-8 | Terminal X
Page 38 of that PDF (Rockfeller foundation)
http://www.rockefellerfoundation.org/uploads/files/bba493f7-cc97-4da3-add6-3deb007cc719.pdf

=========Mp3 (in Urdu) of Naimatullah Shah wali (Live Audio Streaming)
BrassTacks - Zaid Hamid's Private Security and threat analysis Think Tank

Better is download them as Mp3 then USB and listen them in your Car (while driving)

The Rockefeller foundation paper is interesting in its prediction of future. I saw in page 38, they mention a water war between India-Pakistan in 2027. Lets hope you can avoid a war, but it will require entire Muslim world to unite and rally around Pakistan, so India does not become aggressive. With increase of economic and military power, there is no telling what India will do around 2027 time frame. Currently Pakistan has a delicate balance with its nukes and its alliance with China, but the world may look very different in 2027 time frame. If India finds an opening, it will try to annex more land from its Muslim neighbors, Bangladesh is specially vulnerable.

The wiki page I believe describes the same sufi saint. You should read the columbia.edu paper as it thoroughly covers this Nimatullah prophecy phenomenon. Q1 was the original version and over time Q2 and Q3 were added. Zaid Hamid bases his prophecies on this embellished later day versions. After reading CM Naim's thoroughly researched scholarly paper with a lot of credible citations and references, his conclusions on this subject makes perfect sense to me. I post his summary below:

"Summarising the Prophecies

The above chronological narrative may now be summarised to bring out the fascinating trajectories the Ni’matullahi “prophecies” took in south Asia, as they grew in number from one to three. The original Q1 of the Shah of Kirman began in Iran as a harbinger of hope and a reminder of the promised Mahdi. Arguably, it brought solace to the local Muslim population in the context of Timur’s invasions in the 1380s, and the coming to end of the 8th century Hijri. Subsequently, it could have also catered to the messianic impulses of the supporters of Shah Isma’il, the founder of Iran’s Safavid dynasty. The poem reached south India with the Shah’s descendants, then gradually spread more widely. Did it play any
role in the Mahdavi movement of the 15th century, which started in north India but survived more in the south and north-west? Was it circulating during the times of Akbar and Jahangir as the first Hijri millennium came to a close? These are important unanswered questions. We only know for sure that Q1 came to wide public notice in the 1850s, first in support of the remnants of the so-called “Jihad” movement, and then to make “preordained”, and thus reconcilable, the terrible events of 1857 and their aftermath. But Q1 could not fully serve that cause; it needed indigenous augmentation. And so the south Asian Muslim milieu came up with Q2, attributing it to Shah Ni’matullah Wali to give it authority and history. As years progressed and new crises arose, particularly in Turkey, Afghanistan, and the Arab lands, Q2 itself had to be augmented. First it gained additional verses, then eventually a companion “Ni’matullahi” poem, probably before the end of the 19th century.

While both Q1 and Q2 had the classical rhyme requirement of both a radif and a qafiyah, the new poem, Q3, did away with radif and used a most common adjectival ending for its qafiyah. Now any would-be visionary could compose “prophetic” poetry. As various political crises occurred in the new century – first world war; the end of the Ottoman Caliphate; the second world war; Partition of India; the dissolution of the original Pakistan – Q3 kept gaining verses. From barely 30 in the first decade of the 20th century, they came to be almost 100 in the seventh – all attributed to what by then had become a brand name: Shah Ni’matullah Wali.

The Western King

There was also a second trajectory. When the Shah of Kirman wrote Q1 near the end of the 14th century, he claimed his words were based on what was revealed to him by god’s will (az kirdigar), and not dictated by stars (az nujum). His vision was exclusively his own; he did not invoke other prophecies. We do not know what he did with the poem. Did he send it to some aspiring prince? Did he have it distributed more generally through his disciples? We have
no answers. We only know that he composed his verses within an existing Muslim messianic discourse that posited a redemptive Mahdi and a reappearance of Jesus that would bring the world to its end. India played no role to play in that scheme of things. His single verse referring to India, in fact, described the Hindus as suffering under Turk and Tatar oppressors – a situation we could extrapolate he expected would end as his “prophecy” came true.

The second poem, Q2, turns its back on Q1’s central Asia and Iran, focusing almost exclusively on India and its Mughal and British rulers. There is no specific mention of India’s Hindus, and the Sikhs are mentioned only with reference to Guru Nanak and the land of Punjab. The only people vigorously invoked are an “Afghan” or “Western” king and his armies. Here it might be useful to recall that while Afghanistan could have been invoked in the spirit in which Shah Waliullah, in the 18th century, allegedly invited Ahmad Shah Abdali to invade Delhi, it was also the place to which, in the 20th century, thousands of Indian Muslims migrated during the Khilafat movement in a grand gesture of hijrat, and where other nationalists set up an “Indian National Government” under Mahendra Pratap. In fact, as late as 1941, Subhas Chandra Bose fled to Afghanistan to find his way eventually to Berlin and Tokyo. In other words, in the early decades of the 20th century, popular mind could see Afghanistan intimately linked to India in many more ways.

While its main concern is also India, Q3 contains much that relates to other countries, especially in the “Muslim” world. Significantly, it also contains remarks that seem trite but are in fact the tried and true weapons in sectarian confrontations – “moral decay has set in the society”; “religious scholars are ignorant of Islam, and practice deceit”; “sinful persons control religious and social affairs.” As years pass and verses increase, the two themes remain
significant, reflecting the pan-Islamism that found favour among south Asian Muslims in the first half of the last century and the steady increase in sectarianism within the dominant Sunni Islam.

We should note that except for the anonymous manuscript from Hyderabad and the publications of the Deendar Anjuman, no version of Q2 or Q3 makes any mention of the so-called Ghazwat- al-Hind. Also, until we come to the commandant of the Deendar Anjuman at Karachi, no commentator makes any claim that involves him. They place their hopes and ambitions elsewhere.

Zaid Hamid’s cobbled together version marks a significant departure in one way: his poem turns its back on the Muslims of present-day India and Bangladesh and focuses primarily on Pakistan. Its first part, “Prophecies of the Past”, uses verses from Q2 and Q3 to swiftly narrate a haphazard political history of south Asia, beginning with Timur and ending with the Mukti Bahini. The next part, “Prophecies about the Present”, consists of verses chosen exclusively from different versions of Q3, and reads like a jeremiad. It bewails the various evils – impiety and corruption, aping of Christian ways, neglect of Islamic virtues – that allegedly ail the Muslims of Pakistan, thus suggesting a reason for Pakistan’s debacle in 1972. The section’s final couplet, however, offers some hope: “The Banu Sulaiman, i e, the Afghans, will rise like honourable people and fight back, blessed with God’s special favour, with hundred-fold more bravery”. Then comes the final section, “Prophecies for the Future”, in which Hamid, using two verses from Q2 and two from Q3, promptly declares:
“(1) When tyranny and heresy will become common, a Western King, well-equipped to run the state, shall come forward to remove them.
(2) God will manifest His special favour to the Muslims of Western Pakistan, and their hands will become powerful to act.
(3) A lion from among the lions of Hazrat Ali will appear, a killer of infidels. He will be a partisan of the faith of the Prophet and a defender of the land.
(4) He shall bring to his aid invisible help from the Northeast.”

Near the end, Hamid explains that the “Western King”, using extraordinary weapons, shall achieve an unbelievable victory over the infidels and then reign for 40 years. Exactly who the “King” might be becomes clear if we remember that Hamid’s full name is Syed Zaid Zaman Hamid, and that all Syeds, being descendants of Ali, are his “lions”. Not surprisingly, Hamid’s version totally leaves out the “Habibullah” mentioned in Q2, but underscores references to the Afghan people as supporters of his own “Western King”.71

That was the second trajectory the “prophetic” poems took – from being carriers of consoling tidings they turned into a kind of martial manifesto. It was a potential they always had but became overtly evident as their proponents became more consciously martial.

Finally we must ask: why, over at least two centuries, have so many cherished these “prophecies”, and why so many still do?

Prophecies are like conspiracy theories; they are both an opiate and a weapon to the despairing. They lessen the latter’s pain, and fortify them against any calamity that appears to them inexplicable, far too overwhelming, or manifestly undeserved. Prophecies enable the desperate to survive, and the forlorn to hope. For believers, a prophecy puts the crisis at hand within a fundamentally non-hostile, even comforting, context: God’s unfathomable plan for the humankind on earth. By providing a “rationale”, prophecies make any crisis appear “rational”, and thus humanly manageable – through peaceful piety, no doubt, but also through mundane efforts, including violence.

As seen above, the Ni’matullahi “prophecies” place every soulwrenching crisis faced by south Asian Muslims within a messianic narrative – the coming of the Mahdi – that is familiar to them and, being willed by god, requires no further accounting. Simultaneously, they introduce an element of hope too. Some saviour – “Habibullah”, the “Western King”, the Mahdi, Jesus – would eventually defeat the enemy. In that scheme of things, the “Western King” et al functioned as blank spaces that the believers fill in differently at different times. Shockingly, no believer seems to care that every such scenario of hope is actually very shortlived – the “prophesied” total victory of Islam does not lead to centuries of peace and human possibilities; on the contrary, it brings all human possibilities to an end in mere 40 years.

When Syed Ahmad Khan wrote, “Wahabis believe in no prophecy”, he tacitly acknowledged that most other Muslims did.71 It was as true in 1973 as it was in 1872, and as it is now. Qamar Islampuri thoroughly debunked Q2 and Q3 in 1973, but described Q1 as ilhami (“divinely inspired”). Now consider the following, culled from prominent Pakistani newspapers in just two months in 2010:

Seven centuries ago a strange man was born in the sub-continent: Shah Ni’mat Wali (sic). With respect to visions, he towers over others. Britain was then an insignificant island, but he prophesied the British take-over of India. Three centuries before Guru Nanak’s birth, he foretold the rise of the Sikhs.... Professor Ahmad Rafiq Akhtar is ...is a genius and a scholar, and also a wayfarer on the mystical path…In early 2000, he told the American ambassador totally out of the blue: “The world shall drown in innocent blood if George W Bush comes to power.”73 Logical and scholarly arguments have established that in the 81st year of Pakistan’s [existence] the crescent-and-green flag shall fly over New Delhi. Likes of the events that happened in the first six years [of Islam] in Medinah have already happened here, but what in Medinah took one year, has required a decade in Pakistan...The Battle of Badr took place in the second year of Hijra; here the war of September [1965] occurred in Pakistan’s second decade. [Badr] happened 17 months after Hijrat; our war occurred 17 years after the nation’s birth.74 I asked [Sarfaraz Shah], “Do you say these things just to give people some courage? For what is evident in Pakistan is most disheartening.” He replied, “Nature has a system and a design that are always visible to our eyes. But there is also a Will of Nature (sic). Intellectuals and analysts come to their conclusions by observing the System. But faqirs see the Will of Nature too, and according to it, inshallah, Pakistan will be a dominant power in coming years. Its time to rise again has come.”75

One may not find counterparts of the above in the pages of The New York Times or The Washington Post, but an hour’s channel surfing on cable TV in the US would remove any delusion that religious phantasmagoria has disappeared in the “Enlightened” world. It would also confirm that “prophecies” come useful to the powerful too. St John’s “Revelations”, Shah Ni’matullah Wali’s “Prophetic Poems”, Nostradamus’ “Divinations” – they are here to stay, and will not go away any time soon. Far too many human frailties find refuge in them, and too many human ambitions draw nourishment from their words."
 
@kalu_miah we should go back to the Yuri Bezmenov interview and any testimony by similar people who knew what India was doing behind the scenes. it seems Yuri Bezmenov had a real soul searching and eventually realized that a lot of the Soviet-sponsored espionage work of destabilizing weak countries resulted in (distressingly) irreversible destruction of social fabric built on ages of history. it couldn't be more true for East Pakistan-Bangladesh. in 1971, it was not just an Indian annexation, but it also involved coercing an entire society to get into a state of limbo about its history, identity and lose any real chance of self-determination or being able to reach even its minimum potential
 
@khair_ctg just watch the shameless Indians and Indian agents here jumping up and down and pressing on with their bold faced "Big Lie" narrative. You are trying to reason with them, but it is of no use. People of Bangladesh will eventually decide what to do with these people in our land mass. If our people cannot take matters into their own hand and decide their own fate, they will remain slaves of India and Indian agents and there is nothing you or I will be able to do to change this.

what exactly are we supposed to be doing in your country? :undecided:
 
does all a 1000 year old enemy (India) needs to become your friend is invade you?

if you cared about BD enough, and stopped seeing through the mounted eyeballs of the Indian annexation, you would understand knowing the real BD cannot be without its roots in United Pakistan. if you hate United Pakistan, you hate a sovereign Bangladesh. and you only support the Indian annexation.

i belong to this landmass called BD. if being not-pro-Indian is wearing JeI/Pakistan glasses, then to be a Bangladeshi one has to wear them.

more of the actual JeI and BNP people should engage BAL, pro-BAL and pro-India people in discussions about these fundamental matters. it's because it's important for BD's interests. also completely apolitical people (like myself) can stop being mistaken for being somehow affiliated to JeI-BNP.

close to 70 years should have been enough time for absolutely everyone to detect the stench of Islamophobic fundamentalists who were against the very creation of East Pakistan in 1947 and whose religion borders on establishing a Muslim-free ethno-linguistic nationalist system. but still a significant amount of people fail to do so. and the Islamophobes have an interest to keep people illiterate.

seems like you have a lot to talk about. maybe you could take this out of the country watch forums at least


your imaginary "Jamaati or closet Razakar" enemies could have potentially even penned what you are citing. Bangladesh's progress happening to the people's wish is one thing. if something happens at the cost of that, and unfairly laying out a red carpet to Indian interests, there is a big problem.

you're citing numbers but it does little to address the issue from the opening post.

i don't support telling lie to defend your country. not surprisingly this form of nationalism is not sanctioned for a Muslim. for example i don't support a Pakistani person telling lie to defend the image of the PAK armed forces. and i don't support a pro-India Bangladeshi person telling lie to defend the image of Indian agents and Indian-backed atrocities around 1971 either.

nonetheless it baffles me how people like you find lying as a patriotic trait because by doing so, and by calling yourself a Bangladeshi too, you are presenting yourself as some of the most self-hating traitors the rest of the world has seen.

if East Pakistan's birth happened in 1947 because "it sold itself to Pakistan", then so be it

Stop your non-existent and stupid paper war in the PDF. No country is our enemy unless it behaves like one. So, stop your Jamaati bullshitting of 1000 yrs. of war. Because of influence on Aurangzeb by your kind of mean Mullahs in the past Muslims lost their empire in India as well as in other parts of the world. Today, you stupids are again here to undo our Muslim majority BD only to score a point.

I am not an AL supporter. In fact i am closer to the leadership of BNP than you could dream of - so please don't try to box people according to your narrow world-view. And just because i don't want BD unbirthed like you, doesn't imply that i support Indian hegemony.


On topic: the OP's thread didn't deserve a response because the options he has provided are infantile and loaded with his prejudices.

Of course we got independence - what a foolish question. If we are not independent, how are all China, India and the USA our largest trade partners and investors? If you people had any brains, you would realise the simple truth behind this fact - and the ultimate truth about our success.


Crunch these stats with your minds if you can (if you can't, i'll tell you the meaning in the end):

BD top 5 import orgins:

China (29%), India (18%), Singapore (6.0%), Malaysia (5.4%), and South Korea (5.3%)
(in 2008 China stood at 15.8% and India at 15.7%)

BD top 5 export destinations:

United States (19%), Germany (15%), United Kingdom (10%), France (6.8%), and Spain (5.2%)


If we are India's slaves, why are we increasingly trading with its greatest rival? Please answer this.

China is investing billions into Bangladesh: the Padma bridge project, Sonadia sea port, Patuakhali power plant... Japan is investing $5.8bn into infrastructure. If we are an Indian puppet, why is China strengthening it's rival? Are you the only smart people in the world who have worked out the truth - or actually the dumbest?
The truth is this: we are successful because we are useful to everyone in the region. We are useful because we are diligent workers, we have a decent literacy rate and most importantly because we are are impartial. China favours us because we offer strategic advantage against India, India needs to look after us because we can become its weakness. We are happy not to take sides and trade with EVERYBODY, which is why our economy is doing so well.

Now what kind of fool would take unnecessary sides in foreign relations?

Another thing, each and every one of your Jamaati or closet Razakar friends needs to read this thread carefully and blacken their face in shame. Every person on this forum is defensive about their nation, people lie and argue to defend their country - then there are you pathetic excuses for Bangladeshi's who will volunteer to sell our nation to Pakistan? Who will find every way to prove the worst about their own country. You are the most perverse lot i have come across - thankfully real life Bangladeshi's are far more wise than you.

Now kindly stick your 'challenge' where the sun don't shine and try to speak truthfully next time you open your shameless unpatriotic mouths.

OEC: Bangladesh (BGD) Profile of Exports, Imports and Trade Partners

Bangladesh Trade, Exports and Imports | Economy Watch

Bangladesh woos China in snub to West - Features - Al Jazeera English

http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2014/06/12/china-steals-march-on-rivals-to-invest-in-bangladesh/

Jamaatis are giving many excuses in order to achieve their target. They want a war between BD and India so that BD can be undone. This will prove their point that without their Pakistani master BD has always been vulnerable. These ostrich Mullahs! THey think we cannot read their mind.
 
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The Rockefeller foundation paper is interesting in its prediction of future. I saw in page 38, they mention a water war between India-Pakistan in 2027. Lets hope you can avoid a war, but it will require entire Muslim world to unite and rally around Pakistan, so India does not become aggressive. With increase of economic and military power, there is no telling what India will do around 2027 time frame. Currently Pakistan has a delicate balance with its nukes and its alliance with China, but the world may look very different in 2027 time frame. If India finds an opening, it will try to annex more land from its Muslim neighbors, Bangladesh is specially vulnerable.

The wiki page I believe describes the same sufi saint. You should read the columbia.edu paper as it thoroughly covers this Nimatullah prophecy phenomenon. Q1 was the original version and over time Q2 and Q3 were added. Zaid Hamid bases his prophecies on this embellished later day versions. After reading CM Naim's thoroughly researched scholarly paper with a lot of credible citations and references, his conclusions on this subject makes perfect sense to me. I post his summary below:

"Summarising the Prophecies

The above chronological narrative may now be summarised to bring out the fascinating trajectories the Ni’matullahi “prophecies” took in south Asia, as they grew in number from one to three. The original Q1 of the Shah of Kirman began in Iran as a harbinger of hope and a reminder of the promised Mahdi. Arguably, it brought solace to the local Muslim population in the context of Timur’s invasions in the 1380s, and the coming to end of the 8th century Hijri. Subsequently, it could have also catered to the messianic impulses of the supporters of Shah Isma’il, the founder of Iran’s Safavid dynasty. The poem reached south India with the Shah’s descendants, then gradually spread more widely. Did it play any
role in the Mahdavi movement of the 15th century, which started in north India but survived more in the south and north-west? Was it circulating during the times of Akbar and Jahangir as the first Hijri millennium came to a close? These are important unanswered questions. We only know for sure that Q1 came to wide public notice in the 1850s, first in support of the remnants of the so-called “Jihad” movement, and then to make “preordained”, and thus reconcilable, the terrible events of 1857 and their aftermath. But Q1 could not fully serve that cause; it needed indigenous augmentation. And so the south Asian Muslim milieu came up with Q2, attributing it to Shah Ni’matullah Wali to give it authority and history. As years progressed and new crises arose, particularly in Turkey, Afghanistan, and the Arab lands, Q2 itself had to be augmented. First it gained additional verses, then eventually a companion “Ni’matullahi” poem, probably before the end of the 19th century.

While both Q1 and Q2 had the classical rhyme requirement of both a radif and a qafiyah, the new poem, Q3, did away with radif and used a most common adjectival ending for its qafiyah. Now any would-be visionary could compose “prophetic” poetry. As various political crises occurred in the new century – first world war; the end of the Ottoman Caliphate; the second world war; Partition of India; the dissolution of the original Pakistan – Q3 kept gaining verses. From barely 30 in the first decade of the 20th century, they came to be almost 100 in the seventh – all attributed to what by then had become a brand name: Shah Ni’matullah Wali.

The Western King

There was also a second trajectory. When the Shah of Kirman wrote Q1 near the end of the 14th century, he claimed his words were based on what was revealed to him by god’s will (az kirdigar), and not dictated by stars (az nujum). His vision was exclusively his own; he did not invoke other prophecies. We do not know what he did with the poem. Did he send it to some aspiring prince? Did he have it distributed more generally through his disciples? We have
no answers. We only know that he composed his verses within an existing Muslim messianic discourse that posited a redemptive Mahdi and a reappearance of Jesus that would bring the world to its end. India played no role to play in that scheme of things. His single verse referring to India, in fact, described the Hindus as suffering under Turk and Tatar oppressors – a situation we could extrapolate he expected would end as his “prophecy” came true.

The second poem, Q2, turns its back on Q1’s central Asia and Iran, focusing almost exclusively on India and its Mughal and British rulers. There is no specific mention of India’s Hindus, and the Sikhs are mentioned only with reference to Guru Nanak and the land of Punjab. The only people vigorously invoked are an “Afghan” or “Western” king and his armies. Here it might be useful to recall that while Afghanistan could have been invoked in the spirit in which Shah Waliullah, in the 18th century, allegedly invited Ahmad Shah Abdali to invade Delhi, it was also the place to which, in the 20th century, thousands of Indian Muslims migrated during the Khilafat movement in a grand gesture of hijrat, and where other nationalists set up an “Indian National Government” under Mahendra Pratap. In fact, as late as 1941, Subhas Chandra Bose fled to Afghanistan to find his way eventually to Berlin and Tokyo. In other words, in the early decades of the 20th century, popular mind could see Afghanistan intimately linked to India in many more ways.

While its main concern is also India, Q3 contains much that relates to other countries, especially in the “Muslim” world. Significantly, it also contains remarks that seem trite but are in fact the tried and true weapons in sectarian confrontations – “moral decay has set in the society”; “religious scholars are ignorant of Islam, and practice deceit”; “sinful persons control religious and social affairs.” As years pass and verses increase, the two themes remain
significant, reflecting the pan-Islamism that found favour among south Asian Muslims in the first half of the last century and the steady increase in sectarianism within the dominant Sunni Islam.

We should note that except for the anonymous manuscript from Hyderabad and the publications of the Deendar Anjuman, no version of Q2 or Q3 makes any mention of the so-called Ghazwat- al-Hind. Also, until we come to the commandant of the Deendar Anjuman at Karachi, no commentator makes any claim that involves him. They place their hopes and ambitions elsewhere.

Zaid Hamid’s cobbled together version marks a significant departure in one way: his poem turns its back on the Muslims of present-day India and Bangladesh and focuses primarily on Pakistan. Its first part, “Prophecies of the Past”, uses verses from Q2 and Q3 to swiftly narrate a haphazard political history of south Asia, beginning with Timur and ending with the Mukti Bahini. The next part, “Prophecies about the Present”, consists of verses chosen exclusively from different versions of Q3, and reads like a jeremiad. It bewails the various evils – impiety and corruption, aping of Christian ways, neglect of Islamic virtues – that allegedly ail the Muslims of Pakistan, thus suggesting a reason for Pakistan’s debacle in 1972. The section’s final couplet, however, offers some hope: “The Banu Sulaiman, i e, the Afghans, will rise like honourable people and fight back, blessed with God’s special favour, with hundred-fold more bravery”. Then comes the final section, “Prophecies for the Future”, in which Hamid, using two verses from Q2 and two from Q3, promptly declares:
“(1) When tyranny and heresy will become common, a Western King, well-equipped to run the state, shall come forward to remove them.
(2) God will manifest His special favour to the Muslims of Western Pakistan, and their hands will become powerful to act.
(3) A lion from among the lions of Hazrat Ali will appear, a killer of infidels. He will be a partisan of the faith of the Prophet and a defender of the land.
(4) He shall bring to his aid invisible help from the Northeast.”

Near the end, Hamid explains that the “Western King”, using extraordinary weapons, shall achieve an unbelievable victory over the infidels and then reign for 40 years. Exactly who the “King” might be becomes clear if we remember that Hamid’s full name is Syed Zaid Zaman Hamid, and that all Syeds, being descendants of Ali, are his “lions”. Not surprisingly, Hamid’s version totally leaves out the “Habibullah” mentioned in Q2, but underscores references to the Afghan people as supporters of his own “Western King”.71

That was the second trajectory the “prophetic” poems took – from being carriers of consoling tidings they turned into a kind of martial manifesto. It was a potential they always had but became overtly evident as their proponents became more consciously martial.

Finally we must ask: why, over at least two centuries, have so many cherished these “prophecies”, and why so many still do?

Prophecies are like conspiracy theories; they are both an opiate and a weapon to the despairing. They lessen the latter’s pain, and fortify them against any calamity that appears to them inexplicable, far too overwhelming, or manifestly undeserved. Prophecies enable the desperate to survive, and the forlorn to hope. For believers, a prophecy puts the crisis at hand within a fundamentally non-hostile, even comforting, context: God’s unfathomable plan for the humankind on earth. By providing a “rationale”, prophecies make any crisis appear “rational”, and thus humanly manageable – through peaceful piety, no doubt, but also through mundane efforts, including violence.

As seen above, the Ni’matullahi “prophecies” place every soulwrenching crisis faced by south Asian Muslims within a messianic narrative – the coming of the Mahdi – that is familiar to them and, being willed by god, requires no further accounting. Simultaneously, they introduce an element of hope too. Some saviour – “Habibullah”, the “Western King”, the Mahdi, Jesus – would eventually defeat the enemy. In that scheme of things, the “Western King” et al functioned as blank spaces that the believers fill in differently at different times. Shockingly, no believer seems to care that every such scenario of hope is actually very shortlived – the “prophesied” total victory of Islam does not lead to centuries of peace and human possibilities; on the contrary, it brings all human possibilities to an end in mere 40 years.

When Syed Ahmad Khan wrote, “Wahabis believe in no prophecy”, he tacitly acknowledged that most other Muslims did.71 It was as true in 1973 as it was in 1872, and as it is now. Qamar Islampuri thoroughly debunked Q2 and Q3 in 1973, but described Q1 as ilhami (“divinely inspired”). Now consider the following, culled from prominent Pakistani newspapers in just two months in 2010:

Seven centuries ago a strange man was born in the sub-continent: Shah Ni’mat Wali (sic). With respect to visions, he towers over others. Britain was then an insignificant island, but he prophesied the British take-over of India. Three centuries before Guru Nanak’s birth, he foretold the rise of the Sikhs.... Professor Ahmad Rafiq Akhtar is ...is a genius and a scholar, and also a wayfarer on the mystical path…In early 2000, he told the American ambassador totally out of the blue: “The world shall drown in innocent blood if George W Bush comes to power.”73 Logical and scholarly arguments have established that in the 81st year of Pakistan’s [existence] the crescent-and-green flag shall fly over New Delhi. Likes of the events that happened in the first six years [of Islam] in Medinah have already happened here, but what in Medinah took one year, has required a decade in Pakistan...The Battle of Badr took place in the second year of Hijra; here the war of September [1965] occurred in Pakistan’s second decade. [Badr] happened 17 months after Hijrat; our war occurred 17 years after the nation’s birth.74 I asked [Sarfaraz Shah], “Do you say these things just to give people some courage? For what is evident in Pakistan is most disheartening.” He replied, “Nature has a system and a design that are always visible to our eyes. But there is also a Will of Nature (sic). Intellectuals and analysts come to their conclusions by observing the System. But faqirs see the Will of Nature too, and according to it, inshallah, Pakistan will be a dominant power in coming years. Its time to rise again has come.”75

One may not find counterparts of the above in the pages of The New York Times or The Washington Post, but an hour’s channel surfing on cable TV in the US would remove any delusion that religious phantasmagoria has disappeared in the “Enlightened” world. It would also confirm that “prophecies” come useful to the powerful too. St John’s “Revelations”, Shah Ni’matullah Wali’s “Prophetic Poems”, Nostradamus’ “Divinations” – they are here to stay, and will not go away any time soon. Far too many human frailties find refuge in them, and too many human ambitions draw nourishment from their words."

Do South Asian Muslims believe in prophecies of Niamatullah Shah?
 
the real BD cannot be without its roots in United Pakistan. if you hate United Pakistan, you hate a sovereign Bangladesh. and you only support the Indian annexation.

Do you even understand what you are saying?

In the above quote are you seriously saying that by giving up our sovereignty and joining 'United Pakistan', we will become more independent? do you see how stupid that is?

You accuse us of losing sovereignty to India ( without evidence) and at the same time brazenly call for us to give our sovereignty to Pakistan? It's seems you don't have a problem if we lose sovereignty, your just worried it's gone to the wrong master! After this please don't pretend to be a well wisher of BD.

And just because you keep ignoring the evidence doesn't mean it will go away. The facts I gave you prove that the OPs question itself is a farce. You have provided no evidence for anything but keep repeating the same gossip as fact - then dismiss any real evidence presented to you.

If we are India's slave why is its rival China our biggest trading partner? don't keep coming back with your repetitive, baseless opinions as fact. You are making grievous accusations against my country on a public forum, so bring evidence or retract your words please.
 
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Colony of INDIA. AWESOME :yay:

some bangladeshis prefer to be pakistanis. what a shame for all those who laid down their lives to gain independence. Bangladeshi blood has no significance for them.
 
Another thing, isn't it funny that you will lecture me about telling the truth about Bd. When you have provided no evidence for anything you've said. People sometimes lie to defend their country, but you are lying to defame it!
 
by calling yourself a Bangladeshi too, you are presenting yourself as some of the most self-hating traitors the rest of the world has seen.
Jamaati logic. :tup: God help Bangladesh :)

PS - Your posts are really enlightening. Keep writing, tremendous value. :agree:
 
Stop your non-existent and stupid paper war in the PDF. No country is our enemy unless it behaves like one. So, stop your Jamaati bullshitting of 1000 yrs. of war. Because of influence on Aurangzeb by your kind of mean Mullahs in the past Muslims lost their empire in India as well as in other parts of the world. Today, you stupids are again here to undo our Muslim majority BD only to score a point.
i am amused by your "(my) type of mullah" comment. my type of 'mullah' does not even have intermediate orientation in Islami ain-kanun. it's not easy to become a mullah.

i was just quoting I. Gandhi about the 1000 years thing. frankly i don't think this secular-to-Hindu society that current India historically represents has been an enemy. because i know a little bit about the history of the subcontinent, i hugely support friendly relations especially between these three South Asian communities. but that cannot happen at the back of pressing issues that pits us against each. one of these issues is the Indian transgression into the Bangladesh-EP landmass since 1947. because of my interactions and travels, i would like to think such Indian policy is not a true reflection of Indian people. there simply are high-level political factors at play that have been for decades. these factors have stayed beyond comprehension of the ordinary Indian public and probably even most of the Indian ruling class. one of the devastations those factors have brought was turning East Pakistan upside down in 1971, which was NOT the same thing as a "separation" from West Pakistan - the "separation" even was not demanded by East Pakistanis

Jamaati logic. :tup: God help Bangladesh :)

PS - Your posts are really enlightening. Keep writing, tremendous value. :agree:
it's the truth. you know it. you keep writing too
 
The difference between earlier times during Muslim rule and now is that Muslims were militarily dominant back then and today we have a Hindu Ram Rajya wannabe super power who have just elected a Hindutva RSS extremist as PM. Even during previous congress period, RAW's strategy was to use Bangladeshi Hindu's to further Indian interest and keep Hasina and AL in power, I think that policy will not only continue, but Hindu's of Bangladesh will become further infused and emboldened with this Hindutva ideology, as it is the ideology of ruling political party in India. All this will create resentment against Hindu's among Bangladeshi Muslims which does not bode well for future communal harmony. Hopefully the wise among Hindu leaders will not become too involved with RAW and become their pawns to further Indian interest. But the other difficult part is that educated and rich Hindu leaders are open to earning money and making a house or two in Kolkata, so the entire family can move there, when things get uncomfortable in Bangladesh. So this makes it easier for them to make risky moves and not care about how people in Bangladesh may feel about Hindu's in the long term.

Its not just the Hindu's, all the rich big business people and industrialists came to an understanding with India to not to go against Indian interest, because for them too Bangladesh is a temporary place to make a quick buck and then move to Canada when things get unsafe.

As for BKZ, the BNP wallas swear that BKZ made the right decision to not participate, but I have seen many neutral people make the same argument as you are making, that BKZ made a mistake not pariticipating. Personally I am not sure how it would have turned out and it really does not matter now. BNP, BKZ and Tareque are pretty much finished, this part I agree with you that we have entered a long period of dictatorship by Hasina, probably till she becomes too weak to hold power. The Zia family, even late Zia himself was never very bright, it is his and his wife's many mistakes that doomed Bangladesh, so in a way I am glad that they are out of the picture. With both of these families gone, hopefully Bangladesh will be out of dynastic rule and will move towards a more democratic future, just like India, but personally I hope it will not be religious extremists coming to power like it happened in India.

What is your opinion about D-8:
Developing 8 (D-8) Organization for Economic Cooperation
'Hindus of BD getting infused with Hindutva(!)'
'Hindus of BD will get together with RAW(!)'
'Hindus of BD will be pawns in Indian hands(!)'
'Hindus of BD are exploiting BD people and getting ready to more abroad(!)'
'Hindus of BD are building homes in Kolkata and hence don't care about BD(!)'


Wow! You sound exactly like Yahya Khan of 1970-71 :D
*For you that will be a compliment. :P
 
Do you even understand what you are saying?

In the above quote are you seriously saying that by giving up our sovereignty and joining 'United Pakistan', we will become more independent? do you see how stupid that is?
if you think ending and starting your posts with lines like "do you see how stupid that is" gets your point across, i don't have much on that. simply, living under Indian hegemony and as a vassal is not the height of sovereignty we as a people can achieve. if you think coming out of the shackles of India necessarily ends up with Pakistani governance, then connect the dots for me. but what can happen and should happen is much better connectivity and cooperation with Pakistan, and better relations with other Muslim and non-Muslim countries, which is a "trade off" you would be happy to accept as you come out of the Indian shackles wouldn't you?
You accuse us of losing sovereignty to India ( without evidence) and at the same time brazenly call for us to give our sovereignty to Pakistan? It's seems you don't have a problem if we lose sovereignty, your just worried it's gone to the wrong master! After this please don't pretend to be a well wisher of BD.
we did not ever give up our sovereignty to today's Pakistan like the way we did to India. back then, as the presence of West Pakistan-based military in East Pakistan was the presence of our men, the work of EP-based military or Bengal Regiments in the 1965 wartime defence of Lahore was by theirs. Bengal Regiments in Lahore were not colonizers.
And just because you keep ignoring the evidence doesn't mean it will go away. The facts I gave you prove that the OPs question itself is a farce. You have provided no evidence for anything but keep repeating the same gossip as fact - then dismiss any real evidence presented to you.

If we are India's slave why is its rival China our biggest trading partner? don't keep coming back with your repetitive, baseless opinions as fact.
you did not present anything of relevance. i don’t think you understand what this topic warrants. if you are so interested in open-and-shut proofs and evidence, tell me about a petition that Bangladeshi people unanimously made to come under Indian annexation to have everything run by their dictates.
You are making grievous accusations against my country on a public forum, so bring evidence our retract your words please.
and which country would that be, the mother country or the colony? however on a more serious note, you are further away from this country than you think. for the lies and rhetoric that were presented to you in the past and by Indians as facts, actual facts now are supposed to hurt.
 
First it gained additional verses, then eventually a companion “Ni’matullahi” poem, probably before the end of the 19th century.
No doubt on Forgery Attempts.....it is said that, It was written in Old Persian Script so nobody can re-create it & if they do then it can be easily single-out from rest
Moreover Poem consists of 2500 Stanzas and right now we've less them 250 Availble and it lacks meticulous order

Hamid’s version totally leaves out the “Habibullah” mentioned in Q2
I called it Intellectual Dishonesty - I appreciate opinion to the contrary, bcoz it appears to me Zaid hamid Prism-ed all of his work according to Pakistani theory which makes that attempt dubious in my eye
When Syed Ahmad Khan wrote, “Wahabis believe in no prophecy”, he tacitly acknowledged that most other Muslims did
No Doubt, He was not Prophet but Saint, it is not part of our Faith
But most of his Insights come true & bcoz of it Lord Curzon (Viceroy) banned this prediction stating: how it is possible that we only rule India for 100 years?
 
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In the above quote are you seriously saying that by giving up our sovereignty and joining 'United Pakistan', we will become more independent? do you see how stupid that is?

django-jackson.jpg



They are not alone in history.

Now you should understand one thing here on PDF, the indians bad mouthing these clowns are not wrong. They do not think of BD as these assclowns do. It's important that you understand this.
 
but what can happen and should happen is much better connectivity and cooperation with Pakistan, and better relations with other Muslim and non-Muslim countries, which is a "trade off" you would be happy to accept as you come out of the Indian shackles wouldn't you?

Of course we should have better relationships with other Muslim and non-Muslim countries. Certainly, we should co-operate with Pakistan.

The point is that's exactly what we are doing. We trade with everyone, millions of our people work in Muslim and Non-Muslim countries and we receive investment from all over the world. Who does BD not co-operate with?

It's you who are finding faults where none exist. I have proven to you that the 'shackles' you imagine are propaganda - we should and we will trade and co-operate with India too as part of our outlook.
 

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