KingMamba
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Islamic teachings are vehemently against idol-worship, be it a living being or inanimate object.
As it should be.
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Islamic teachings are vehemently against idol-worship, be it a living being or inanimate object.
I was talking about faith. Not the people. I am well aware of the fact that non Muslim kings and peoples have so far killed more humans than any other. But you missed my point. I hope you have got that by now...Yes, yes....we are very evil.
Please, continue with your preaching.
Which mainstream Islam are you talking about??
Islam has hundreds of versions, like every other religion, and this was proved by the oldest Quran found in Yemen.
I do not believe in anyway that Quran asked you to stay away from anyone even the pagans.
I strongly believe that no religion ever forbids its followers from showing kindness to those who have not fought you.
Islam also says that "let's not be hostile to anyone except the wrongdoers".
So I wonder where did this generalisation of Pagans come about??
Which mainstream Islam are you talking about??
Islam has hundreds of versions, like every other religion, and this was proved by the oldest Quran found in Yemen.
I do not believe in anyway that Quran asked you to stay away from anyone even the pagans.
I strongly believe that no religion ever forbids its followers from showing kindness to those who have not fought you.
Islam also says that "let's not be hostile to anyone except the wrongdoers".
So I wonder where did this generalisation of Pagans come about??
His post is not true.
I dont agree to this part.but even though i know according to my faith he is doing a grave sin , and at the day of judgement we will judge differently
His post is not true.
Second,I don't know about oldest Quran.What I was told that after passage of Rasool Allah(S.A.W), his closest people: Hazrat Abu Bakr suddique(R.A),Hazrat Umer Farooq(R.A)[Rasool Allah said about him that if God would have chosen messenger after him,it would be him.However, since it was declared in skies and heavens that Rasool Allah would be last prophet ,therefore no one else could be made],Hazrat Usman Ghani and Hazrat Ali arranged Quran properly-thats it!
About sects division ,Rasool Allah(S.A.W) already knew it as well as it was already told by god.It is one of the major signs of dooms day!
The best way to study Islam is to get Quran translated by Sheikh Abdul Qadir Jilani or well known names such as Mujadid Alif sani and read them,while for hadith, get saha satta and always look at references either as if they are Abu Dawood,Ibn e Maja and other 5 important narrators.
Islam never asked to stay away from pagans who are good hearted and kind.In fact, In one of the verse Allah forbids to say hurtful things to non Muslims including pagans and their gods because they will get hurt and say bad things in return.I read it before but I do not remember the reference. I will look into Quran and send you its references as well.
I guess by mainstream Islam he meant sunni Islam!
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Posters are requested to refrain religious discussions in the forum as it is contrary to rules!
Regards
I dont agree to this part.
But i would refrain from continuing on this topic as @Slav Defence has already warned members on this thread not to go deeper on this topic, religious discussions (of just about any religion) always ends up leaving a bad taste.
I am sorry but I am not changing any basic rules. However, you need to develop your in depth knowledge before claiming anything about Islam and please do not manipulate as I never changed anything to gain wah wah nor I am liberal. Everyone knows me very well that I remain neutral or atleast try to remain neutral in almost every thread.the Islam Prophet Muhammad Pbuh bring ... that is the only Islam ...i follow i dont care about rest ..
Islam does not have any Versions , its the creation of us , Muslims .. Islam is based of some basic Articles of Faith , you fulfill it , you will called a Muslim , rest people change according to situations ...
and i never say Quran ask us to stay away from Pagan , but what i am saying that Islam is against the Idol worship and pagan are completely based on idol worshiping they wont come together , yeah on individual level yeah maybe for some thousand of people yeah but eventually there will always be a confrontation between them .. but this is again does not teach by Quran , As a muslim i respect Hindu's point of view , i listen to them , i give them a smile and bye ... you go your way and i go mine ... no cursing or beheading hahaha simple ..
what you strongly believe , i believe it too , but what i am telling is truth , which is ground reality , do you really think that anyone of the Rashidun Caliphate had let and Pagan worshiper keep the Temple after Islam dominate the land ?
now after Islam reach mecca , the idols were broken , and this is one of the most historic event in the Islamic history , anyone who had a little Knowledge of Islam must tell you this ..
A person who have different idols and worship them , yeah he can be my friend , i will help him , i will be honest with him ,this is what Islam teach me ... but even though i know according to my faith he is doing a grave sin , and at the day of judgement we will judge differently , it does not mean that Muslims are superior but as a Muslim i am giving you information what i believe , and what Islam is about ..
you quote something from Islam , but there are many many other thing that Islam say's i expect you to read and Quote it too
the Islam Prophet Muhammad Pbuh bring ... that is the only Islam ...i follow i dont care about rest ..
Islam does not have any Versions , its the creation of us , Muslims .. Islam is based of some basic Articles of Faith , you fulfill it , you will called a Muslim , rest people change according to situations ...
and i never say Quran ask us to stay away from Pagan , but what i am saying that Islam is against the Idol worship and pagan are completely based on idol worshiping they wont come together , yeah on individual level yeah maybe for some thousand of people yeah but eventually there will always be a confrontation between them .. but this is again does not teach by Quran , As a muslim i respect Hindu's point of view , i listen to them , i give them a smile and bye ... you go your way and i go mine ... no cursing or beheading hahaha simple ..
what you strongly believe , i believe it too , but what i am telling is truth , which is ground reality , do you really think that anyone of the Rashidun Caliphate had let and Pagan worshiper keep the Temple after Islam dominate the land ?
now after Islam reach mecca , the idols were broken , and this is one of the most historic event in the Islamic history , anyone who had a little Knowledge of Islam must tell you this ..
A person who have different idols and worship them , yeah he can be my friend , i will help him , i will be honest with him ,this is what Islam teach me ... but even though i know according to my faith he is doing a grave sin , and at the day of judgement we will judge differently , it does not mean that Muslims are superior but as a Muslim i am giving you information what i believe , and what Islam is about ..
you quote something from Islam , but there are many many other thing that Islam say's i expect you to read and Quote it too
Sir i would want a explanation from you before you pass your judgement on my post
it does not mean that if you act as a secular , you cant change the basic rules according to your will ... just because you want to have some Wah wah from others
So far he has not done it, nor do I think he's someone who would stoop to such level just to earn a few pats on his back.i have no hesitation is saying even your @Slav Defence is wrong here , probably he just want to get some secular view and Wah Wah as a TT ...
When on I earth I supported idol worshipping? Are you in your senses?Are you even reading my post?kindly stop spreading something you have no knowledge over ... i have every single book you mentioned in my home .. i have read it more than 5 times ... so please bring me one verse where Islam justify idol worshiping ... and i will accept your post ...
stop picking up lines from my post ... read the words before those highlighted lines, i said " According to my faith " , bring me one verse where Quran Justify or Acknowledge idol worshiping ... or else , dont just pick up stuff out of context ...
and i have no hesitation is saying even your @Slav Defence is wrong here , probably he just want to get some secular view and Wah Wah as a TT ...
I didnt "pick" on your post.stop picking up lines from my post ... read the words before those highlighted lines, i said " According to my faith " , bring me one verse where Quran Justify or Acknowledge idol worshiping ... or else , dont just pick up stuff out of context ...
I am sorry but I am not changing any basic rules. However, you need to develop your in depth knowledge before claiming anything about Islam and please do not manipulate as I never changed anything to gain wah wah nor I am liberal. Everyone knows me very well that I remain neutral or atleast try to remain neutral in almost every thread.
Haven't you read surah baqrah,surah furqan surah qasas and other surahs in which Allah explained the characteristics of momins?
Show me the verse you are quoting and I will explain it to you.
Regards
I am sorry but I am not changing any basic rules. However, you need to develop your in depth knowledge before claiming anything about Islam and please do not manipulate as I never changed anything to gain wah wah nor I am liberal. Everyone knows me very well that I remain neutral or atleast try to remain neutral in almost every thread.
Haven't you read surah baqrah,surah furqan surah qasas and other surahs in which Allah explained the characteristics of momins?
Show me the verse you are quoting and I will explain it to you.
Regards
So who is disagreeing with you that Islam does not supports idol worshipping?of course it does not and I agree with you on this.However, we are talking about "manners" Islam preaches with non Muslims that is to treat them with kindness. This is the essence due to which Muslims rulers at their golden era were so tolerant and aware of minority rights.my point is that Islam does not endorse the Idol worshiping , this ABCD of Islam ...
and tell me this , who told you that speaking lie is bad ? Islam ? or bible ? Quran ? no , there are things human learn to from the civilization ... no one teach the Humans that murder is wrong , now , my point is that , what you are saying that , its good to love and respect Pagans , yeah i am saying the same thing but there is a huge Clash between two faiths, which will never be solved ,unless you give Fatwa that Quran or Islam endorse Idol worship , or else my point is right ..
and as i said , i have the entire set of Quran Explanation in my shelf i have read it many times , along with Quran and its translation .. Quran does and will not accept Idol Worship which pagan believe stands upon , why its hard to believe ?
When on I earth I supported idol worshipping? Are you in your senses?Are you even reading my post?
I think that there is misunderstanding. No way on earth Islam supports polytheism or idol worshipping.However, Islam strictly teaches to be very nice by attitude with non believers be it Hindus or be it Christians.
Regards
So far he has not done it, nor do I think he's someone who would stoop to such level just to earn a few pats on his back.
So who is disagreeing with you that Islam does not supports idol worshipping?of course it does not and I agree with you on this.However, we are talking about "manners" Islam preaches with non Muslims that is to treat them with kindness. This is the essence due to which Muslims rulers at their golden era were so tolerant and aware of minority rights.
Regards
my point is that Islam does not endorse the Idol worshiping , this ABCD of Islam ...
and tell me this , who told you that speaking lie is bad ? Islam ? or bible ? Quran ? no , there are things human learn to from the civilization ... no one teach the Humans that murder is wrong , now , my point is that , what you are saying that , its good to love and respect Pagans , yeah i am saying the same thing but there is a huge Clash between two faiths, which will never be solved ,unless you give Fatwa that Quran or Islam endorse Idol worship , or else my point is right ..
and as i said , i have the entire set of Quran Explanation in my shelf i have read it many times , along with Quran and its translation .. Quran does and will not accept Idol Worship which pagan believe stands upon , why its hard to believe ?
The Quran 2:221
And do not marry Al-Mushrikât [idolatresses,] till they believe. And indeed a slave woman who believes is better than a Mushrikah [idolatress], even though she pleases you. And give not in marriage to Al-Mushrikûn till they believe and verily, a believing slave is better than a Mushrik (idolater), even though he pleases you. Those (Al-Mushrikûn) invite you to the Fire, but Allâh invites to Paradise and Forgiveness by His Leave, and makes His Ayât clear to mankind that they may remember.
The Quran 6:37
Even so, in the eyes of most of the Pagans, their `partners' made alluring the slaughter of their children in order to lead them to their own destruction, and cause confusion in their religion. If Allah had willed, they would not have done so: but leave alone them and their inventions
The Quran 6:94
And behold! ye come to Us bare and alone as We created you for the first time: Ye have left behind you all (the favours) which We bestowed on you: We see not with you your intercessors whom ye thought to be partners in your affairs: so now all relations between you have been cut off, and your (pet) fancies have left you in the lurch!"
The Quran 6:100
Yet they make the Jinns equals with Allah, though Allah did create the Jinns; and they falsely, having no knowledge attribute to Him sons and daughters. Praise and glory be to Him! (for He is) above what they attribute to Him!.
The Quran 6:121
Eat not of (meats) on which Allah's name hath not been pronounced: that would be impiety. But the evil ones ever inspire their friends to contend with you; if ye were to obey them, ye would indeed be pagans.
The Quran 7:190
But when He giveth them a goodly child, they ascribe to others a share in the gift they have received: but Allah is exalted high above the partners they ascribe to Him.
The Quran 9: 3
And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage― that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the pagans. If, then ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.
The Quran 9:113
It is not fitting, for the prophet and those who believe, that they should pray for forgiveness for pagans, even though they be of kin, after it is clear to them that they are companions of the Fire
The Quran 9:28
O ye who believe! Truly the pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills out of His bounty for Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.
The Quran 9:17
It is not for such as join gods with Allah to visit or maintain the mosques of Allah while they witness against their own souls to infidelity. The works of such bear no fruit: in Fire shall they dwell.
The Quran 10:66
Behold! verily to Allah belong all creatures, in the heavens and on earth. What do they follow who worship as His "partners" other than Allah? They follow nothing but fancy, and they do nothing but lie
The Quran 12:106
And most of them believe not in Allah without associating with Him
The Quran :23 :117
And whoever invokes , besides Allah (God) , any other ilah (God), of whom he has no proof, then his reckoning is only with his Lord. Surely! (Al-Kafiroon ) disbelievers will not be successful
The Quran 30:42
Say: "Travel through the earth and see what was the End of those before (you): most of them worshipped others besides Allah."
The Quran 31:12
Behold, Luqman said to his son admonishing him: "O my son! Join not in worship (others) with Allah: for false worship is indeed the highest wrong-doing."
The Quran 31:15
But if they strive to make the join in worship with Me things of which thou hast no knowledge obey them not; Yet bear them company in this life with justice (and consideration) and follow the way of those who turn to Me (in love): in the End the return of you all is to Me, and I will tell you the truth (and meaning) of all that ye did
The Quran 35:14
If ye invoke them, they will not listen to your call, and if they were to listen they cannot answer your (prayer). On the Day of Judgement they will reject your "Partnership." And none, (O man!) can tell thee (the Truth) like the One Who is acquainted with all things.
The Quran 42:21
What! have they partners (in godhead), who have established for them some religion without the permission of Allah? Had it not been for the Decree of Judgement the matter would have been decided between them (at once): But verily the wrongdoers will have a grievous Penalty.
The Quran 40:84/85
But when they saw Our punishment, they said: "We believe in Allah― the One Allah― and we reject the partners we used to join with Him." (84) But their professing the Faith when they (actually) saw Our Punishment was not going to profit them. (Such has been) Allah's way of dealing with His servants (from the most ancient times). And even thus did the rejecters of Allah perish (utterly)!
The Quran 42:13
The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah--that which We have sent by inspiration to thee--and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: namely, that ye should remain steadfast in Religion, and make no divisions therein: to those who worship other things than Allah, hard is the (way) to which thou callest them. Allah chooses to Himself those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him).
The Quran 46:4
Say: "Do ye see what it is ye invoke besides Allah? Show me what it is they have created on earth, or have they a share in the heavens? Bring me a Book (revealed) before this, or any remnant of knowledge (ye may have), if ye are telling the truth!"
The Quran 48:6
And that He may punish the Hypocrites men and women, and the Polytheists, men and women, who imagine an evil opinion of Allah. On them is a round of Evil: the Wrath of Allah is on them: He has cursed them and got Hell ready for them: and evil is it for a destination
The Quran 61:8
It is He Who has sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Religion of Truth, that he may proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).
The Quran 98:6
Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures
The Quran 60:12
O Prophet! When believing women come to thee to take the oath of fealty to thee that they will not associate in worship any other thing whatever with Allah, that they will not steal, that they will not commit adultery (or fornication), that they will not kill their children, that they will not utter slander, intentionally forging falsehood and that they will not disobey thee in any just matter then do thou receive their fealty and pray to Allah for the forgiveness (of their sins): for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
MAIN FOCUS VERSE OF THE ARTICLE
THE QURAN 12:106
[Wama yu/minu aktharuhum biAllahi illa wahum mushrikoona]
And most of them will not believe in God except while setting-up partners.
nice Attitude does not teach you by islam ... nice attitude exist before Islam right ?
there are certain things which humans know even before the Islam came .. right ?
Lying , killing , Abusive , Rape , and other crimes .do you need Quran to teach you that these are wrong ? no
having respectable attitude towards all religion is something that comes naturally , yeah Islam just glorify it ..
now if you read the discussion , my only point is that Islam and Paganism has difference, and the two religions can not run together, but there is no wrong in respecting each other ,and been friends ...
Oh god,my god have mercy on us!!What kind of arguments are being thrown at me which makes no sense at all.
You posted those verses which are concerned with problems such as keeping nikah with non believers, warfare, nature and politics
Where as I an talking about interaction with non muslims:
And tell my servants that they should speak in a most kindly manner (unto those who do not share their beliefs). Verily, Satan is always ready to stir up discord between men; for verily; Satan is mans foe .... Hence, We have not sent you (Unto men O Prophet) with power to determine their Faith
22:67 To every people have We appointed ceremonial rites (of prayer) which they observe; therefore, let them not wrangle over this matter with you, but bid them to turn to your Lord (since that is the main objective of religion). You indeed are rightly guided. But if they still dispute you in this matter, (then say,) `God best knows (the value of) what you do."
88:21, 22; also see 24:54 And so, (O Prophet!) exhort them your task is only to exhort; you cannot compel them to believe.
posting more...
60:8 Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.
60:9 Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong.
Posting more...
Prophetic Narrations
The lives of the practitioners of other religions in the Muslim society was also given protective status. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him!) said:
“Whoever kills a person who has a truce with the Muslims will never smell the fragrance of Paradise.”(Saheeh Muslim)
Since the upper hand was with the Muslims, the Prophet strictly warned against any maltreatment of people of other faiths. He said:
“Beware! Whoever is cruel and hard on a non-Muslim minority, or curtails their rights, or burdens them with more than they can bear, or takes anything from them against their free will; I (Prophet Muhammad) will complain against the person on the Day of Judgment.” (Abu Dawud)
The teachings of the Prophet on how you and I should treat our Non-Muslim friends and neighbours on a day to day basis as well as how to government should treat a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state.
"He who believes in God and the Last Day should honour his guest, should not harm his neighbour, should speak good or keep quiet." (Bukhari, Muslim)
"Whoever hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state hurts me, and he who hurts me annoys God."(Bukhari)
"He who hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state, I am his adversary, and I shall be his adversary on the Day of a Judgement." (Bukhari)
"Beware on the Day of Judgement; I shall mysefl be complainant against him who wrongs a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state or lays on him a responsibility greater than he can bear or deprives him of anything that belongs to him." (Al-Mawardi)
"Anyone who kills a Non-Muslim who had become our ally will not smell the fragrance of Paradise."(Bukhari)
Monasteries, Churches and Synagogues must be Respected
A Muslim must respect and protect the holy places where the People of the Book worship God, and protect them. For Muslims, these places are precious because in these places, people, whether Jews or Christians, remember God. In the Qur'an, the places of worship of the People of the Book, ie. monasteries, churches and synagogues, are mentioned as places of worship protected by God.
…if God had not driven some people back by means of others, monasteries, churches, synagogues and mosques, where God's name is mentioned much, would have been pulled down and destroyed. God will certainly help those who help Him-God is All-Strong, Almighty. (Qur'an, 22:40)
As a manifestation of his loyalty to God's commands, the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was most careful not to destroy the holy places of the People of the Book. Such destruction means, in the first place, opposing God's commands. This aside, it means preventing people who have faith in God worshipping Him. Indeed, the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) promised the Christians, who were the other party to a peace agreement he made, that their churches would not be destroyed and that they would never be harmed. The tax (Jizya) agreements he made with Christians also guaranteed the safety of churches.
The first agreement made after the death of the Prophet (pbuh) that guaranteed the protection of the temples was a tax agreement Khalid bin al-Waleed signed with the leader of the city of Anat. Ibn Ishaq stated that those agreements made by Khalid bin al-Waleed were also approved by Abu Bakr and the three caliphs following him.16 This aside, Abu Bakr offered the same guarantees that had been offered to the people of Najran by the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
The Islamic societies that abided by Islamic morality after the death of the Prophet (pbuh) also paid special attention to this issue. Muslim leaders who adhered to the Qur'an and the Sunnah (the sayings and doings of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)) respected the places of worship of non-Muslims in conquered countries and showed great tolerance to the clergy. Christians who lived under Muslim rule for centuries never rebelled for religious reasons. This, there is no doubt, is the result of the just and tolerant attitudes of Muslim leaders in compliance with Qur'anic rules.
Also pls go through this link:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...EAskTheScholar
So I hope that your misunderstandings are gone,may I sleep now?sir, you start your post by saying i was wrong .. and you are showing me more Hadith , rather than Quran ..
what i was explaining to our Hindu friends that Pagan and Muslims have difference which will never be over, you want friends with them , you can ..
and as for interact , love respect , and all you dont need Hindism , Christianity and judasim to know that ..
Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 17 Surah Israa verses 22-23:
22Take not with Allah another object of worship; or thou (O man!) wilt sit in disgrace and destitution.
23Thy Lord hath decreed that ye worship none but Him Alone.
Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 12 Surah Yusuf verse 40:
40"If not Him (Allah), ye worship nothing but names which ye have named ye and your fathers for which Allah hath sent you no authority: the Command is for none but Allah: He hath commanded that ye worship none but Him Alone: that is the right religion but most men understand not...
Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 3 Surah Ale-Imraan verse 64:
64Say: "O people of the Book!Come to common terms as between us and you: that we worship none but Allah Alone; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not from among ourselves Lords and Patrons other than Allah."If then they turn back say: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will)."
Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 13 Surah Raad verse 36:
36….Say: "I am commanded to worship Allah Alone and not to join partners with Him.Unto Him do I call and unto Him is my return."
Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 30 Surah Rome verse 40:
40It is Allah Who has created you: further He has provided for your sustenance; then He will cause you to die; and again He will give you life.Are there any of your (false) "partners" who can do any single one of these things? Glory to Him (Allah)! And High is He above the partners they attribute (to Him)!