Developed cancer drug for 'western patients' who could afford, not 'for Indians': Bayer's CEO

[gslv mk3]

Rubbish。

If Chinese pharmaceutical firms do what their Indian counterparts do today，you lot will be out of biz in a few years。

Making generics is cakewalk。Even a middle school lab in China can do it and do it better than you Indians。

Life saving？You shameless Indians are thieves and the biggest and worst hypocrites。

 

[drunken-monke]

Rubbish。

If Chinese pharmaceutical firms do what their Indian counterparts do today，you lot will be out of biz in a few years。

Making generics is cakewalk。Even a middle school lab in China can do it and do it better than you Indians。

Life saving？You shameless Indians are thieves and the biggest and worst hypocrites。

China is far behind India in generic drug manufacturing.. China is powerhouse for bulk drug manufacturing. India is the largest supplier of generic medicine to USA. China is playing its part in world of medicines by a emerging global supply chain leader.. But about Finished dosage form, it is still far behind...

If its a cakewalk for the middle school, how do they test it for bio equivalence?? And why there is low number of approved ANDA and supply of Finished dosage form from china to EU/US???

And don't call us thieves, coz by your logic, chinese should be biggest thieves who has no regards for IPR worldwide (for any field)..

By the way I am more interested in traditional Chinese medicine...E.g. Artemether/artesunate. China have not reveled its secret in traditional medicine to the outer world.. These medicine can be extremely beneficial for rest of the world.. But instead china is focusing on western/allopathic medicine... like we Indians left our Ayurveda...

 

[anonymus]

In other words you are acting like a parasite, live from our science without contributing to it. Thanks for making this clear.

Listen ignoramus,

TRIPS was not the only agreement that came into force in Uruguay round; there were five of these agreements AoA, TRIPS, GATS,Dismantling of Multi fiber agreement and GATT ( which was older one ).

According to them " Your " country got right/permission to subsidies your inefficient farm sector and keep abnormally high tarrifs on Agricultural goods imported from developed countries. If free trade in that sector would have been allowed, not even a single farmer in Europe would have been able to compete.

So in other words you are acting like a parasite, trampling on labor of our farmers without contributing anything to agriculture. Thanks for making this clear.

" Your " country in not complying with GATS agreement and allowing Mode 3 and Mode 4 services to shield their inefficient labor from competition.

In other words you are acting like a parasite,shielding your welfare queens from fair competition. Thanks for making this clear.

Europe was supposed to end Quotas on textile when multi fiber agreement lapsed in 2004 but it did not do that.

In other words you are acting like a parasite, denying competitive advantage of cheap labor to Developing countries. Thanks for making this clear.


When " your " country signed TRIPS, the safeguard of compulsory licencing was built in it against douchbaggary of pharmaceuticals in which they price their products at such an exorbitant rates that practically no one could afford it.

If you have a problem with that complain to your government. They signed WTO agreement as a package deal, not as we get to select best parts while ignoring those which are not good for us.

 

[MarkusS]

Listen ignoramus,

TRIPS was not the only agreement that came into force in Uruguay round; there were five of these agreements AoA, TRIPS, GATS,Dismantling of Multi fiber agreement and GATT ( which was older one ).

According to them " Your " country got right/permission to subsidies your inefficient farm sector and keep abnormally high tarrifs on Agricultural goods imported from developed countries. If free trade in that sector would have been allowed, not even a single farmer in Europe would have been able to compete.

So in other words you are acting like a parasite, trampling on labor of our farmers without contributing anything to agriculture. Thanks for making this clear.

" Your " country in not complying with GATS agreement and allowing Mode 3 and Mode 4 services to shield their inefficient labor from competition.

In other words you are acting like a parasite,shielding your welfare queens from fair competition. Thanks for making this clear.

Europe was supposed to end Quotas on textile when multi fiber agreement lapsed in 2004 but it did not do that.

In other words you are acting like a parasite, denying competitive advantage of cheap labor to Developing countries. Thanks for making this clear.


When " your " country signed TRIPS, the safeguard of compulsory licencing was built in it against douchbaggary of pharmaceuticals in which they price their products at such an exorbitant rates that practically no one could afford it.

If you have a problem with that complain to your government. They signed WTO agreement as a package deal, not as we get to select best parts while ignoring those which are not good for us.

I dont care buddy, we put ridiculous high penalty taxes on indian steel. With that we get double the profit than what we got with the meds. In the end you guys pay the price. So its ok.

 

[cricketrulez]

I dont care buddy, we put ridiculous high penalty taxes on indian steel. With that we get double the profit than what we got with the meds. In the end you guys pay the price. So its ok.

So you got owned like the dumb bitch that you are.

Anyway, Shouldn't you guys be preparing to loose another world war.

 

[anonymus]

I dont care buddy, we put ridiculous high penalty taxes on indian steel. With that we get double the profit than what we got with the meds. In the end you guys pay the price. So its ok.

It would lead to higher penalties being put on German products.

FYI World is not fourth reich yet. You cannot impose penalties without facing a tit for tat response.

India has done nothing illegal. Bayer was pricing it's drug at a price where no one could practically buy it. India had a legal right to grant compulsory license.

Bayer would still get 7% royalty for every generic sold ( it would rake much more revenue from that rather than an embargo ) and has a right to sold their medicine at whatever price they deem fit.They are butt-hurt because India's action could undermine their business model.

If you have a problem, complain to your government. They signed WTO agreement.

 

[MarkusS]

So you got owned like the dumb bitch that you are.

Anyway, Shouldn't you guys be preparing to loose another world war.

How got we tricked when we place a penalty tax on your steel and you pay double the price now? explain please

It would lead to higher penalties being put on German products.

FYI World is not fourth reich yet. You cannot impose penalties without facing a tit for tat response.

India has done nothing illegal. Bayer was pricing it's drug at a price where no one could practically buy it. India had a legal right to grant compulsory license.

Bayer would still get 7% royalty for every generic sold ( it would rake much more revenue from that rather than an embargo ) and has a right to sold their medicine at whatever price they deem fit.They are butt-hurt because India's action could undermine their business model.

If you have a problem, complain to your government. They signed WTO agreement.

We put those high penalty taxes on indian steel in octobre. Till yet india did not react and took it like a bitch. So far i'm pleased with our response.

 

[anonymus]

How got we tricked when we place a penalty tax on your steel and you pay double the price now? explain please



We put those high penalty taxes on indian steel in octobre. Till yet india did not react and took it like a bitch. So far i'm pleased with our response.

Had you ever studied Economics, even at high school level?

Indian steel manufacturers do not pay even a single extra Euro when you impose penalty on them. From where did you get " Pay doulble the price now" bullshit?

When Germany imposes penalty on Indian steel, it is imposed on embarkation price or sales price of primary importer. Higher duty means that importer would pay more tax to German government for Indian steel thus making it dearer to them.India does not have to pay even a single Euro, it is German importers who have to pay. It could decrease demand for Indian Steel vis-a-vis German manufactures but would only be beneficial for them in long run if they have spare capacity ( which Europe due to exhaustion of its Iron ore reserves do not have ).

 

[skysthelimit]

Good idea, when indian companies develop new drugs and other nations create generic copies and sell them abroad, hope you'll say the same.

Well Indian companies don't charge 60K for life-saving drugs, and cosidering Bayer's large portfolio, we still come out on top.

What do you care? Bangladesh gets all of its drugs throug aid anyways

 

[Indo-guy]

The drug has been approved and launched in India.. But you must understand that, benchmark for quality of NCE is based upon its filing and approval in US market. In India, Lipaglyn contributes merely 100 crores (16-17 million USD) while they spec 300 million USD on development...

Requirement of US market is extreamly stringent (Japan has most stringent regulations). Unless drug does not get approved and launched in USA, it does not come under the roof of global NCE..

There is no such term as global NCE ...

and for that matter Zydus Cadilla holds Global patent for Saroglitazaar !
as far as US FDA approval is concerned ...I agree that it's landmark achievement for any Drug entity. However to get marketing license in Individual countries / regions Drug companies have to go through processes of applying for same at individual Drug Regulatory authorities .

there are many instances how a particular drug is approved in one particular region and not approved in other parts of world .

If drug is good enough companies will foot it to get approved in all possible regions to improve market access .

But this does not anyway diminish NCE status of any drug .

Getting drug approved in US is not easy ....

and so even if Saroglitazzar may have been approved in India alone ...does not diminish its significance as first NCE invented by Indian entity indigenously.

It is proof that NCE can be invented and developed by pharma companies ....and that Indian pharma companies are not just good enough to do copy- cat work ( which in itself also is not an easy task ....)

One way or another India is a powerhouse, me being a Pakistani actually support the Indian stance. They wouldnt have to resort to "stealing" as you so eloquently put it, had the prices been somewhat attainable. A huge population plus a leading world powerhouse, India can toe this line.

The 2.5 lack rupees tag for monthly treatment with sorafenib - a drug which merely prolongs life by 3 months in Kidney cancer / liver cancer ...is just a cruel joke .
2.5 lakh rupees may be life time saving of ordinary people in India and similarly placed developing country ... To be forced to pay such an astounding amount is inhuman even in developed country ...forget about developing countries .

These MNC Pharma companies have been blood sucker fleas ....there is no end to their greed .


If generic drug companies can make profits with even throwaway prices ....that means MNC pharma companies have been too greedy to raise the cost of drug astronomically .

The whole argument about how they need profits to allow them to invest in research is big propaganda .


These MNC Pharma companies are anti humans ....

The story of Indian pharma company is the most illustrious story of ingenuity in service of mankind .

at the height of HIV pandemic millions of AIDS pts were dying in Africa .

Indian pharma companies came forward and with backing of Indian patent Act they churned out incredibly cheaper ARVs which saved millions of lives .

The whole WHO 3 by 5 initiative to make HIV drugs available and accessible across the world was based on the cheaper generic drugs produced by Pharma companies .


The reversal of HIV pandemic course with use of Universal access to ARVs due to cheaper generic drugs is the most eloquent success story in modern medicine besides Small pox eradication and polio elimination .


People who cry hoarse against Indian pharma companies forget this story deliberately ....

Frankly speaking if BAYER had issues with judgement of indian Apex court ...it should have had approached WTO .

after all India has used provisions of TRIPS agreement to issue compulsory license for this particular drug .

If at all WTO should be arbitrator for any such dispute to which India is signatory ...

but to make such a remark ( which is condemned by Germany itself ) is matter of great shame for BAYER !!!

Even their government is not standing with them for such an atrocious remark by a CEO of BAYER .

 

[drunken-monke]

There is no such term as global NCE ...

and for that matter Zydus Cadilla holds Global patent for Saroglitazaar !
as far as US FDA approval is concerned ...I agree that it's landmark achievement for any Drug entity. However to get marketing license in Individual countries / regions Drug companies have to go through processes of applying for same at individual Drug Regulatory authorities .

there are many instances how a particular drug is approved in one particular region and not approved in other parts of world .

If drug is good enough companies will foot it to get approved in all possible regions to improve market access .

But this does not anyway diminish NCE status of any drug .

Agree with you.. But likewise there are many NCE project in almost all pharma orgs which has a turnover of more than 2000K crores.. Even my previous employer Wockhardt had three NCE projects...

Getting drug approved in US is not easy ....

That sums up the major chunk of my point of view..

and so even if Saroglitazzar may have been approved in India alone ...does not diminish its significance as first NCE invented by Indian entity indigenously.

It is proof that NCE can be invented and developed by pharma companies ....and that Indian pharma companies are not just good enough to do copy- cat work ( which in itself also is not an easy task ....)

The basic problem for NCE in India is related to Finance... There is no doubt about the intellectual capability... About copy-cat work, man it is one of the tedious jobs.. Ask me, when I had been involved in some critical ANDA projects, it got the cr@p out of us...

The 2.5 lack rupees tag for monthly treatment with sorafenib - a drug which merely prolongs life by 3 months in Kidney cancer / liver cancer ...is just a cruel joke .
2.5 lakh rupees may be life time saving of ordinary people in India and similarly placed developing country ... To be forced to pay such an astounding amount is inhuman even in developed country ...forget about developing countries .

Agree with you, but don't have any option...

These MNC Pharma companies have been blood sucker fleas ....there is no end to their greed .

Here am not Not agreeing with you... MNC have saved millions lives directly and billions indirectly... They are saviors.. Its about the cost they charge... But do you have option??

If generic drug companies can make profits with even throwaway prices ....that means MNC pharma companies have been too greedy to raise the cost of drug astronomically .

The point is developing cost of NDA vs ANDA is significant.. thats why there is cost diffenrence... As i mentioned why India have not been a contributor to NCE (apart from Saroglitazzar).

The whole argument about how they need profits to allow them to invest in research is big propaganda .

Nope its true to a larger extent....

These MNC Pharma companies are anti humans ....

No they are not..

The story of Indian pharma company is the most illustrious story of ingenuity in service of mankind .

yes it is, if we put out the episodes of cGMP violations by India inc. and counterfeit medicines

at the height of HIV pandemic millions of AIDS pts were dying in Africa .

Indian pharma companies came forward and with backing of Indian patent Act they churned out incredibly cheaper ARVs which saved millions of lives .

A few were involved, not all. many made in India medicines were counterfeit..
Counterfeit medicine trade targets Africa's poor | Fox News
BBC News - Counterfeit drugs targeted by technology in India
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterfeit_medications

The whole WHO 3 by 5 initiative to make HIV drugs available and accessible across the world was based on the cheaper generic drugs produced by Pharma companies .


The reversal of HIV pandemic course with use of Universal access to ARVs due to cheaper generic drugs is the most eloquent success story in modern medicine besides Small pox eradication and polio elimination .


People who cry hoarse against Indian pharma companies forget this story deliberately ....

Frankly speaking if BAYER had issues with judgement of indian Apex court ...it should have had approached WTO .

after all India has used provisions of TRIPS agreement to issue compulsory license for this particular drug .

If at all WTO should be arbitrator for any such dispute to which India is signatory ...

but to make such a remark ( which is condemned by Germany itself ) is matter of great shame for BAYER !!!

Even their government is not standing with them for such an atrocious remark by a CEO of BAYER .

true..

 

[pursuit of happiness]

Almost all the MNC and even Indian majors in Pharma are playing their part in supplying good quality medicine (in free of cost to required peoples) in India.. Its a social duty we need to do at any cost... But the attitude in India is not favourable for competitive market... Thus hindering the chances of investment and launches of new/novel products in India.. that the whole basic problem...



You misunderstood the whole point... The quality of medicine decides the cost of it... cGMP and GLP makes the cost high.. Its the requirement in USA to have higher quality (in lay man language)... The regulations there are much more stringent than that of here... If you (government and health agencies) want all those regulations to be followed in India as well, the cost will surge to the existing one...



Not much option to India for US market and vice-e-versa.. We are the largest generic supplier to US market.. But if you consider these Indian Pharma Inc. then their 60-70 of sales/revenue is from US/EU/Japan.... rest is in India or CIS countries...
If you must know, then 2017-18 would be the phase where we Pharma generics would face Patent peak which would result in merger and aquisitions, resulting in further soaring of cost...



Glad that you had patients for my reply...


No, Cipla is a Domestic giant, a 90 years old company.. But yet they have revenue from US/EU.. I dont have Idea about their PEPFAR plan/Pipeline... You know its business strategies...



Exactly my point.. If drug is also required to be given enough tech to get effective, then the cost should be respected... and I agree on your point on MCI... They should have a regulation...



Innovation act??
this might help you.. There is always a fierce battle in in federal court over grabbing or claming a troll patent.. The act is for prevention of the same...

House passes Innovation Act by vote of 325-91: a small solution to a big patent problem — Tech News and Analysis

------------------------------
1.attitude in India is not favourable for competitive market.
Maybe . But is it not under ACCEPTED international guidelines.
Compulsory licensing is step under WTO .
you Develop nation want us to give price to our food grain to our farmers based on 1985 prices. this is their fair market practice of US, UK etc.
competition is always good if it benefits poorest of poor.. no meaning for have competition for too few ..
Is USA fair ?.. please read their policy of visa for IT,, outsourcing...
is rare moment when GOI stand for cause for its people.
Bayer given royalty because they did not followed norms ..
its as per natural justice ...
if bayer is not happy they are free to leave india...
GOI knows they are right and they can dictate terms for right cause
exa..Google accepted Chinese terms to enter market ..so in india for health sector.

2. cGMP, UFFDA, Austrialian FDA, WHO
is not cgmp mandatory for any exporting pharma unit...?
nothing g8 in it.
outside USA india have most number of USFDA approved plants.
so thats basic ...its default cost....for paracetamol to any high end formulation


3. Drug cost and tech
Durg cost is imp so do tech but its should deliver on imp result .. the health of patient .. without discrimination
you must me knowing more than manufacturing ,marketing takes high cost.. free bies to xyz...free international holidays to xyz
who sponser it and from whom pharma companies will recover?
point is pharma companies also playing game by indulging "unethical practice" ..yes i stand by it..

no all are bad though..
we have to come clean both govt and companies..
i think gove played their role.. if any issue companies have their respective forum to raise issue..

thanks

 

[pursuit of happiness]

How got we tricked when we place a penalty tax on your steel and you pay double the price now? explain please



We put those high penalty taxes on indian steel in octobre. Till yet india did not react and took it like a bitch. So far i'm pleased with our response.

Dear If you think develop nation can bully developing nation life before.. please wake up
the world is change ..
The rulers of once and become ashes ( though we dont wanted it)
WTO is stuck because you guys want ONLY your terms ...
Just wake of new reality .
india is just of 1.5 - 2 % of world trade .. so this is scenario. think when it will grow even to 3% .. the game is on

How got we tricked when we place a penalty tax on your steel and you pay double the price now? explain please



We put those high penalty taxes on indian steel in octobre. Till yet india did not react and took it like a bitch. So far i'm pleased with our response.

Please refrain from derogatory remarks on any country ( Till yet india did not react and took it like a bitch)
it blood which gone into build any country...
if not respect dont insult ..
Its a Request.

 

[MarkusS]

Well Indian companies don't charge 60K for life-saving drugs, and cosidering Bayer's large portfolio, we still come out on top.

What do you care? Bangladesh gets all of its drugs throug aid anyways

India develops nothing. Nobody would want to copy that. Thats the thing. They have no development costs, because they have no development. As i said, we should strip india from pharma market and let them deal themself with their parasitic behavior. Beside that, don´t cry me a river for their ill. I simply don´t care. Their government acts parasitic, and india does not help in global science.
Basic is:

India does invest nothing, risks nothing but steals science from others. With that it stops others to invest in research, which will hurt us all in the end. I don´t expect smart moves from this government. I guess the level is the same as their pharma science...sub zero. 0 innovation. I just guess they **** it up and copy something like Contergan there. That would be irony.

Imagine all those who take the fake drugs get deformed children. What goes around comes around. You get what you pay for. When you want it cheap you get it cheap. Who will they sue then?

 

[pursuit of happiness]

India develops shit. Nobody would want to copy that. Thats the thing. They have no development costs, because they have no development. As i said, we should strip india from pharma market and let them deal themself with their parasites. Beside that, don´t cry me a river for their ill. I simply don´t care. Their government acts parasitic, and india does not help in global science.

are you a 5 yr old kid ... read history..
again i am requesting you talk /write sensibly about any nation
then dont blame
i follow gnadhi then savarkar .. bose .. shivaji will take over
please put your point with facts and logic

India develops nothing. Nobody would want to copy that. Thats the thing. They have no development costs, because they have no development. As i said, we should strip india from pharma market and let them deal themself with their parasitic behavior. Beside that, don´t cry me a river for their ill. I simply don´t care. Their government acts parasitic, and india does not help in global science.
Basic is:

India does invest nothing, risks nothing but steals science from others. With that it stops others to invest in research, which will hurt us all in the end. I don´t expect smart moves from this government. I guess the level is the same as their pharma science...sub zero. 0 innovation. I just hope they **** it up and copy something like Contergan there. That would be irony.

Imagine all those who take the fake drugs get deformed children. What goes around comes around. You get what you pay for. When you want it cheap you get it cheap. Who will they sue then?

please read invention of ZERO