Despite the WWII past, can China and Japan be real friends?

[Norwegian]

No. Wrong. It was USA 100%. America provided the "roof" under which the Franco-German project could take route and then grow into the European Union today. Okay who on the Western Europe defeated Germany and thus leading the victory of allies? That led to "Pax Americana" in Europe reinforced by NATO which essentially centred around US military capability. Under this umbrella European unity was nursed and prospered helped by the Marshall Plan.

Even today who is at the forefront of European integration in Eastern Europe? Not the Europeans but US. For example all the Europeans countries on the estern fringe like Latvia, Estonia, Poland, Romania etc are being provided US "muscle" to first calm them and then hug them into a safe European future.

US paratroops arrive in Poland amid tensions with Russia - News - Stripes

"WHAT IS OPERATION ATLANTIC RESOLVE?

Operation Atlantic Resolve is a demonstration of continued U.S. commitment to the collective security of NATO and to enduring peace and stability in the region, in light of Russia's illegal actions in Ukraine.

Army Europe is leading the Operation Atlantic Resolve enhanced land force multinational training and security cooperation activities taking place across Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania and Bulgaria. These activities build multinational interoperability, strengthen relationships and trust among allied armies, contribute to regional stability and demonstrate U.S. commitment to NATO."

Operation Atlantic Resolve | U.S. Army in Europe

Czech Republic

Poland

Riga, Latvia

This is USA stablizing the new members of the western block by providing the "muscle" and reassuring the people of these eastern European countries.

Operation Dragoon Ride - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I never denied American Defense Umbrella. It actually helped us against the Soviets, which were a real threat to Europe post WW2. Especially the NATO doctrine of attacking one country is considered to be an attack on all of them. It prevented USSR from attacking any member of NATO, including Muslim Turkey

Yet, on the economic point of view, European and American trade market is still not well integrated despite financial markets integration ages ago!!!

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I never denied American Defense Umbrella. It actually helped us against the Soviets, which were a real threat to Europe post WW2. Especially the NATO doctrine of attacking one country is considered to be an attack on all of them. It prevented USSR from attacking any member of NATO, including Muslim Turkey

Yet, on the economic point of view, European and American trade market is still not well integrated despite financial markets integration ages ago!!!

Precisely. Under the defence umbrella provided did the unity and peace in Europe take root. American and European markets are not integrated. They are ONE and the same.The term "Western" means those economies tied into the US economy. London and New York trading houses are integrated like twins. One blip there resounds in London stock markets.

 

[Norwegian]

Precisely. Under the defence umbrella provided did the unity and peace in Europe take root. American and European markets are not integrated. They are ONE and the same.The term "Western" means those economies tied into the US economy. London and New York trading houses are integrated like twins. One blip there resounds in London stock markets.

As I said, only financial markets are integrated, not trade markets. There are still lots of barriers on importing goods and services between the hemispheres.

 

[mike2000 is back]

No. Wrong. It was USA 100%. America provided the "roof" under which the Franco-German project could take route and then grow into the European Union today. Okay who on the Western Europe defeated Germany and thus leading the victory of allies? That led to "Pax Americana" in Europe reinforced by NATO which essentially centred around US military capability. Under this umbrella European unity was nursed and prospered helped by the Marshall Plan.

Even today who is at the forefront of European integration in Eastern Europe? Not the Europeans but US. For example all the Europeans countries on the estern fringe like Latvia, Estonia, Poland, Romania etc are being provided US "muscle" to first calm them and then hug them into a safe European future.

US paratroops arrive in Poland amid tensions with Russia - News - Stripes

"WHAT IS OPERATION ATLANTIC RESOLVE?

Operation Atlantic Resolve is a demonstration of continued U.S. commitment to the collective security of NATO and to enduring peace and stability in the region, in light of Russia's illegal actions in Ukraine.

Army Europe is leading the Operation Atlantic Resolve enhanced land force multinational training and security cooperation activities taking place across Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania and Bulgaria. These activities build multinational interoperability, strengthen relationships and trust among allied armies, contribute to regional stability and demonstrate U.S. commitment to NATO."

Operation Atlantic Resolve | U.S. Army in Europe

Czech Republic

Poland

Riga, Latvia

This is USA stablizing the new members of the western block by providing the "muscle" and reassuring the people of these eastern European countries.

Operation Dragoon Ride - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The American's play the role of prefect or referee under whom everybody can get things done.

All is legal/fair in geo-politics. Its never a clean game.

I will advice members here to watch this very interesting documentary from al jazeera about france own geo political games in africa, good to see that for once they are not blaming/only focusing on just we the 'evil' anglo saxons.

@Nihonjin1051 , mon ami @Gabriel92 ,@Guynextdoor2 , @vostok ,@Chinese-Dragon ,@ChineseTiger1986 ,@Nair saab, @Echo_419 ,@Economic superpower et sl, check this documentary out, seems the evil yankees and british imperialists are kind of better afterall.

 

[IR-TR]

As soon as Japan gives even a simple apology and kicks out the Gaijins. East Asia will integrate completely and act as one on the world stage. As it should.

 

[Gabriel92]

All is legal/fair in geo-politics. Its never a clean game.

I will advice members here to watch this very interesting documentary from al jazeera about france own geo political games in africa, good to see that for once they are not blaming/only focusing on just we the 'evil' anglo saxons.

@Nihonjin1051 , mon ami @Gabriel92 ,@Guynextdoor2 , @vostok ,@Chinese-Dragon ,@ChineseTiger1986 ,@Nair saab, @Echo_419 ,@Economic superpower et sl, check this documentary out, seems the evil yankees and british imperialists are kind of better afterall.

Imperialist/colonialist Supa powa France abusing of poor defenceless african countries. Snif snif.
Anyway i cant see these videos (it seems) are blocked here for copyright or whatever.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Imperialist/colonialist Supa powa France abusing of poor defenceless african countries. Snif snif.
Anyway i cant see these videos (it seems) are blocked here for copyright or whatever.

All is fair/legal in geo politics bro.
Only the weak cry foul(just because they dont have the capabilities).
VIVE LA FRANCE.

As soon as Japan gives even a simple apology and kicks out the Gaijins. East Asia will integrate completely and act as one on the world stage. As it should.

Well, i think Japan will do that by the end of this century or the next one if you are lucky enough. lol. So your dream might come true in 2100 or more.
But as far as it happens, its a good sign. Afterall i also think in the coming centuries Asia will get their acts together like Europe did. But not this century, that im sure about.

 

[Gabriel92]

All is fair/legal in geo politics bro.
Only the weak cry foul(just because they dont have the capabilities).
VIVE LA FRANCE.



Well, i think Japan will do that by the end of this century or the next one if you are lucky enough. lol. So your dream might come true in 2100 or more.
But as far as it happens, its a good sign. Afterall i also think in the coming centuries Asia will get their acts together like Europe did. But not this century, that im sure about.

Beware of France,if you are a poor defenceless country they will instal bases in your country... there are french military bases in almost all former colonies.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Beware of France,if you are a poor defenceless country they will instal bases in your country... there are french military bases in almost all former colonies.

Lool i know......except in Vietnam. I wonder why. @NiceGuy ,@Viet , @DaiViet , @Yorozuya , @xesy . Care to explain?

 

[Gabriel92]

Lool i know......except in Vietnam. I wonder why. @NiceGuy ,@Viet , @DaiViet , @Yorozuya , @xesy . Care to explain?

Meh,a weird communist country welcoming an imperialist colonialist army ? No way.

 

[Economic superpower]

Japan and China will never be friends because China is a stronger country than Japan and the advantage will only shift more in favour of China. This infuriates Japan because they are no longer the dominant power in East Asia.

 

[Keel]

Japan marks end of World War II; Shinzo Abe draws criticism from China, South Korea
Updated yesterday at 4:07pm

PHOTO: Japan has marked the anniversary of Japan's surrender in World War II, with hundreds visiting the controversial Yasukuni shrine to pay their respects to the war dead. (Reuters: Thomas Peter)

RELATED STORY: Japan's PM apologetic over WWII, but says next generation not obliged

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MAP: Japan Abe on Friday delivered a closely watched war anniversary speech that expressed regret but also said future generations need not apologise for Japan's war record.

His remarks were welcomed by the United States but blasted by China as a non-apology, while South Korea derided it as "an unpardonable mockery of the Korean people".

China urged Japan to "take concrete actions to gain the trust of its Asian neighbours and the global community".

South Korean president Park Geun-Hye Mr Abe's speech "left much to be desired" and contained "regrettable elements", but did not elaborate on what those elements were.

North Korea, with which Japan has no diplomatic ties, condemned what it called "an attempt of the Japanese rightist conservatives to conceal its crime-woven past".

Senior politicians visit Yasukuni shrine
PHOTO: Former internal affairs minister Yoshitaka Shindo (2nd R), was among a group of politicians who visited Yasukuni to commemorate the anniversary. (Reuters: Issei Kato)

Japan's ministers in charge of women's empowerment and internal affairs and communications were among those who visited the controversial Yasukuni shrine.

The visits to Yasukuni every August 15 enrage neighbouring nations, which view them as an insult and a painful reminder of Tokyo's aggression in the first half of the 20th century, including a brutal 35-year occupation of the Korean peninsula.

China and South Korea suffered badly from Japan's imperial march across Asia in the 20th century and want Mr Abe to uphold previous explicit prime-ministerial apologies for Tokyo's actions.

Japan's emperor Akihito expressed deep remorse over the conflict at a memorial service on Saturday, in a departure from his usual annual script.

"Looking back at the past, together with deep remorse over the war, I pray that this tragedy of war will not be repeated and together with the people, express my deep condolences for those who fell in battle and in the ravages of war, and pray for world peace and the further prosperity of our country," Akihito, the son of wartime emperor Hirohito, said.

The soft-spoken Akihito has often urged Japan not to forget the suffering of the war and tried to promote reconciliation with Asian countries.

His comments have attracted increased attention at a time when Mr Abe appears to be pushing for a less apologetic tone towards Japan's past.

Japan's wartime history under renewed focus under Shinzo Abe

Founded in 1869, the Shinto shrine honours some 2.5 million citizens who died in World War II and other conflicts, along with 14 indicted war criminals including General Hideki Tojo, who authorised the attack on Pearl Harbor.

They were secretly added to the Yasukuni honour list in 1978. This only became public knowledge the following year.

Japan's wartime history came under a renewed focus after Mr Abe swept into power in late 2012, his second stint as prime minister.

Much speculation focused on whether he would follow a landmark 1995 statement issued by then-premier Tomiichi Murayama.

The so-called Murayama Statement, which became a benchmark for subsequent apologies, expressed "deep remorse" and a "heartfelt apology" for the "tremendous damage" inflicted, particularly in Asia.

Many ordinary people go to Yasukuni pay their respects to relatives and friends who died in combat, while senior politicians who visit insist they are doing what their counterparts in most other countries do when honouring fallen soldiers.

Japanese nationalists, including Mr Abe, argue Yasukuni is no different than the US National Cemetery at Arlington.

But unlike Arlington, Yasukuni promotes a view of history that many find unpalatable.

The attached museum portrays Japan more as a victim of US aggression in WWII and makes scant reference to the extreme brutality of invading Imperial troops when they stormed through Asia — especially China and Korea — in the 20th century.

Only 15 premiers since WWII — about half — have paid respects at the shrine and just a half dozen have gone since the war criminals were added to the list in the late 1970s.

Prior to Mr Abe, the last sitting premier to visit was Junichiro Koizumi in 2006.

Emperor Akihito has never visited.

Japan marks end of World War II; Shinzo Abe draws criticism from China, South Korea - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

 

[Aepsilons]

Oh be quiet and put a lid on it Keel.

 

[Keel]

Well , you might be right, but then again so what? As i already said, Geo politics is not a moral game, countries will always do what they think is in their interests, and this involves established powers trying to maintain their position/status quo by all means possible. So obviously Japan will do what it things best suits its interests irregardless of what china thinks, same with the U.S, and so too will China. The only difference here is that China doesnt have much it can do against Japan as of now, as most countries in the region are still western,U.S and japanese inclined, So Chinas actions/space to maneuver is rather limited, as for example with taiwan issue and the constraints it faces in first and second islands chains where it faces two big naval powers U.S navy and IJN.

Will be interesting to see how things plays out these coming years. Economically the two countries will continue being best friends as their economies are complimentary, but diplomatically,strategically and militarily it will be the opposite. So a chinese Japan close relationshio is rather far fetched and simply wishful thinking,too many stumbling blocks/historical and present disputes.

If the countries are doing as what you've said then you are seeing again the HUMANITY TRAGEDIES ON A GLOBAL SCALE like what imperial japanese and the Nazis have done.

There are immense gloss-over in the Japanese attitudes and choice of words to camouflage their most serious crimes to humanity. The "gloss-over" is evident on multiple occasions in PDF forum alone

1. "invasion" is never mentioned
2. it was not just "mistake" made by the Japanese but the most vicious crimes that happened to mankind. They included genocide, pilferage, arson, torture, use of biological and chemical weapons, cutting people up alive, man-slaughter, rapes, forced sexual slavery. forced labour, wide areas of property destructions, excruciating miseries and sufferings that have been inflicted on the innocent on massive numbers and scale
3. the war crimes did not only happen in China nor Korea alone. It was done to other parts of Asia - Singapore, Indonesia, Malaysia, Myanmar, Brunei , the Philippines, USA...and people of many different nations like Australians. Brits ,,, were affected during and after
4, the writers and speakers never felt truely "remorseful" or sincerely "apologetic". What have they done in substance to address the aggrieved in other countries other than their own?
5. Where is the compensation which has never been mentioned and brutally denied repeatedly or even humiliated by the Japanese courts?

 

[Gabriel92]

China should wipe out Japan. It's completely justified considering the history between these two countries.

Lol,if we follow your logic,we should have wiped out Germany,because the history between us and them wasnt great.