Despite the WWII past, can China and Japan be real friends?

[TaiShang]

There's no reason why there can't be rapproachment , in fact , I would say that tho there are various factors and political groups in both countries that may cause antagonism due to differences in politics, overall, the general population would do well to have greater inter-Japanese-Chinese cooperation in various fields. The Chinese and Japanese can do well to bind their relatiosn by focusing on environmental cooperation , weather assistance cooperation, educational / academic cooperation, health and medical, medical research, agrarian science cooperation, food engineering, chemical processing and chemical hazards waste disposal cooperation, inter-cultural development projects etc.

To be honest, there's a lot of opportunities to be had between the two. Politics is one thing, my friend, but nations are not governed solely on differences of politics, that is just one aspect of the national spectrum.

@TaiShang my friend, would you not agree?



Kind regards to all
(sorry for my late response, i've been busy again with work piling up again, lol)


@Nihonjin1051

I guess national politics is a strong variable in bilateral relations, even at the grassroots level.

It is likely that people to people and business relations will likely continue and further improve save a serious and sudden degradation in political relations. In most cases, it is also true that people travel to other countries and do business even when they are not wholly happy about their politics or certain social customs.

I start to believe that for a real, deep interaction, geopolitical relations must at least be benign, if not entirely friendly/cooperative.

In terms of geopolitics, I do not see a sliver of rapprochement between China and Japan, if not it is deteriorating beyond repair at the moment.

Japan is very actively engaged in the US containment strategy, and in fact, seems like encouraging the US for a firmer approach. I do not see a similar Chinese approach to buy/bribe an alliance (and frankly, you at times sound like a Middle Ages preacher to gather together the holy alliance to drive away infidels from the holy lands) to choke China. Seeing itself disempowered, Japan does everything in its power to mobilize the US-led network against China. That's very clear to many of us.

In a word, multilateralization of geopolitics by Japan takes away the chances to improve bilateral relations. And the side effects trickle down to other realms of bilateral relations.

 

[Gufi]

It came from a britain prime minister.And I don't understand why you keep repeating that China is betrayed and be invaded like a complaining pussy which have been banged by a hooker that don't pay.Haven't you been taught that the weaklings would always be eaten，bullied in this jungle world in school？Instead blaming others，one should get stronger，cuz it actually works.Being bullied is a shame to me，I don't like talk like a pussy complaining all day along.It makes one look weak and pathetic.

Your language, be decent whatever your views are.

 

[saiyan0321]

Their history is just too messed up and the issues rather than diminishing continuously keep rising however time is a very powerful factor and in the future, far away future they may enjoy good cordial relations like in the far off future Pakistan and India ( the definition of rivals and enemies) may enjoy good relations but as things are it cannot be seen and will take time. A lot of time.

Its quite sad that Asia the largest and potentially strongest continent in the world is so divided but the reasons for such divides are from deep wounds that haven't healed yet.

I doubt in my life time I will see China and Japan having good strong relations.

 

[Aepsilons]

It is always the present which matters.The past is relatively irrelavent.territory dispute and the attitude of japanese government makes China and japan wouldn't become “friend” in predictable future.And after all,Nations have no permanentfriends or allies, they only have permanent interests,so "real friend" is really meaningless.

I agree with you @EAsian , and politics is only one side, as i said before. Here in my experience living in the United States of America, I notice that the Japanese foreign exchange students as well as Chinese foreign exchange students usually hang with each other, in majority of cases. In fact this past August 8,2015 --- the university staff in the department of psychology where i teach and work at -- hosted a welcome party for the international students that are matriculating into the department this year as first year students --- so far we have 40 international undergrads and 25 international undergrads; we've quite a number of kids coming from China, Japan, India, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, from Columbia, Brazil, and South Africa.

One thing that I find rather interesting is that the Chinese and Japanese students (freshman kids) convene with each other, they stick together during the orientation day(s). It just shows that beyond the realm of politics (national), rappot is rather deep between Japan and China , and this extends to the citizenry level on the individual level. I think this reality is a sobering aspect.

There is absolutely no reason a Chinese person cannot be friends with a Japanese person at a personal level.

At a country to country level though, there probably wont be friendship with Japan within our lifetimes. Give it a couple of centuries at least for the effects of world war 2 to fade slightly.

Yes, I think I've mentioned this before. Probably in 2-3 centuries time. Then again, what is 2-3 centuries for ancient civilizations like Japan and China.


Regards,

Their history is just too messed up and the issues rather than diminishing continuously keep rising however time is a very powerful factor and in the future, far away future they may enjoy good cordial relations like in the far off future Pakistan and India ( the definition of rivals and enemies) may enjoy good relations but as things are it cannot be seen and will take time. A lot of time.

Its quite sad that Asia the largest and potentially strongest continent in the world is so divided but the reasons for such divides are from deep wounds that haven't healed yet.

I doubt in my life time I will see China and Japan having good strong relations.

Perhaps not in our lifetime, my friend, but perhaps in our great great great grandchildrens' lifetime. Then again, when we refer to Asia, time is rather relative.

 

[Norwegian]

Why can't Eastern nations join like the EU? What's stopping them? What Europeans did to each other during WW2 is nothing compared to Japan / China relations?

 

[Mo12]

Yes only if China drops its aggressive policy of the SCS

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Why can't Eastern nations join like the EU? What's stopping them? What Europeans did to each other during WW2 is nothing compared to Japan / China relations?

Hello Norge not seen you around. The reason is simple ...... No "Uncle Sam" to lasso them togather. American influence united Europe.

 

[Norwegian]

Hello Norge not seen you around. The reason is simple ...... No "Uncle Sam" to lasso them togather. American influence united Europe.

America did nothing but scaring Europe into submission (The red Scare). Although their Marshall Help and other economic assistance played its part of rebuilding Europe, but politically EU was a German-French project and had nothing to do with the United States.

 

[Aepsilons]

Seeing these pictures is heart and gut wrenching. I suppose it is a lesson for us, Japanese, Chinese and the rest of Humanity to never forget the cruelty of war and a remembrance for Japanese to remember our mistakes in fighting with China in that destructive conflict over 70 years ago.

They say the sins hurt the soul. That is why I am an ardent believer of the necessity to atone for sins by revering all souls of those whom died, and to never forget what was done, to never forget the injustices of war.

May our generation never repeat the failures of our grandfathers' generation.

May the spirits of those who died rest in peace....

May The God wash away the sins, May The God replenish , May The God revoke the karma of older generations, May The God restore rest and peace to the hallowed and revered spirits who passed away from this Realm to the Next. May They Rest and be at Peace, For Eternal Age.

May the Imperial Ancestors forgive the mistakes , May the Imperial Ancestors offer blessings and pray for us.....

 

[mike2000 is back]

The war time crimes glossing over is evident in PDF threads relating to jpn war crimes let alone in jpn

The proposal in the OP is not possible as far as I see it even if the WW2 traumas are set aside

New conflicts are still waging on which are:

1. the likely scrapping of the Japanese "Pacifist Constitution"

2. Japan is actively and militarily taking sides in SCS
Japan rewrites foreign aid rules to include military assistance - World Socialist Web Site
Testing Beijing, Japan eyes growing role in South China Sea security
Japan’s Two Soryu Class Submarine For The Philippines Now Considered
Japan and U.S. to establish military bases in the Philippines

3. Japan is fostering an independent Taiwan ...

Lee met with Shinzo Abe: TV Tokyo - Taipei Times

and Tibet

Exile Tibetan administration appoints new Tokyo and Canberra mission heads | Tibetan Review

and Xinjiang

4. plus Diaoyu Islands and :

Japan demands China halt oil exploration in part of East China Sea ‹ Japan Today: Japan News and Discussion

5. the US factor

Well , you might be right, but then again so what? As i already said, Geo politics is not a moral game, countries will always do what they think is in their interests, and this involves established powers trying to maintain their position/status quo by all means possible. So obviously Japan will do what it things best suits its interests irregardless of what china thinks, same with the U.S, and so too will China. The only difference here is that China doesnt have much it can do against Japan as of now, as most countries in the region are still western,U.S and japanese inclined, So Chinas actions/space to maneuver is rather limited, as for example with taiwan issue and the constraints it faces in first and second islands chains where it faces two big naval powers U.S navy and IJN.

Will be interesting to see how things plays out these coming years. Economically the two countries will continue being best friends as their economies are complimentary, but diplomatically,strategically and militarily it will be the opposite. So a chinese Japan close relationshio is rather far fetched and simply wishful thinking,too many stumbling blocks/historical and present disputes.

 

[Aepsilons]

Well , you might be right, but then again so what? As i already said, Geo politics is not a moral game, countries will always do what they think is in their interests, and this involves established powers trying to maintain their position/status quo by all means possible. So obviously Japan will do what it things best suits its interests irregardless of what china thinks, same with the U.S, and so too will China. The only difference here is that China doesnt have much it can do against Japan as of now, as most countries in the region are still western,U.S and japanese inclined, So Chinas actions/space to maneuver is rather limited, as for example with taiwan issue and the constraints it faces in first and second islands chains where it faces two big naval powers U.S navy and IJN.

Will be interesting to see how things plays out these coming years. Economically the two countries will continue being best friends as their economies are complimentary, but diplomatically,strategically and militarily it will be the opposite. So a chinese Japan close relationshio is rather far fetched and simply wishful thinking,too many stumbling blocks/historical and present disputes.

Well said Mike. In the end, folks shouldn't take things personally. National interests are national interests; we shouldn't apply it in personal context. Lastly, no need to try to convince Keel, that guy is anti-Japan period. He's here and is provocative and his agenda is anti-Japan , period.

 

[Spectre]

Well said Mike. In the end, folks shouldn't take things personally. National interests are national interests; we shouldn't apply it in personal context. Lastly, no need to try to convince Keel, that guy is anti-Japan period. He's here and is provocative and his agenda is anti-Japan , period.

Your enemies are the biggest the biggest indicator of your success, I would say Japan is on the right track.

 

[xunzi]

Japan pain is our gain. Why should we be friend with them again? We can't wait to get rid of them from a militaristic, political, and economic standpoint.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Well said Mike. In the end, folks shouldn't take things personally. National interests are national interests; we shouldn't apply it in personal context. Lastly, no need to try to convince Keel, that guy is anti-Japan period. He's here and is provocative and his agenda is anti-Japan , period.

Well as i said before, when you start to take geo politics too serious and personal then thats when you startvm acting irrationally. This can be seen in the case of North Korea and Iran mullahs,Cuba etc. You shiuld always just see it as a gamegame, and always show your good face publicly while hiding the bad one/keeping it privately.

Obviously one should always keep in mind that its not like other powers have anything against your country,ITS NOTHING PERSONAL, established powers will always try and undermine one they think can start posing a threat to them. It doesnt matter which country it is, we fought bloody wars of world supremacy/colonies against France, Spain etc , We also fought/prevented Germany's ambitions when it was 'rising',we would have probably done the same with the U.S if not for the fact that we got severly weakened fighting the Nazis and Imperial Japan in WWI and WWII respectvely. Plus don't forget that we and Russia also fought an indirect battle in central asia for supremacy known as the 'Great game', the U.S did the same when it brought down the Soviet Union(with the cooperation of china by the way.lol) etc i can go on and on. so i dont see why some Chinese here take it personal. That's how its been for centuries, China isnt any exception. Only the mentally weak cry/whine repeatedly about being 'innocent' poor victims(like the greeks sometimes do) lol

 

[Indus Pakistan]

America did nothing but scaring Europe into submission (The red Scare). Although their Marshall Help and other economic assistance played its part of rebuilding Europe, but politically EU was a German-French project and had nothing to do with the United States.

No. Wrong. It was USA 100%. America provided the "roof" under which the Franco-German project could take route and then grow into the European Union today. Okay who on the Western Europe defeated Germany and thus leading the victory of allies? That led to "Pax Americana" in Europe reinforced by NATO which essentially centred around US military capability. Under this umbrella European unity was nursed and prospered helped by the Marshall Plan.

Even today who is at the forefront of European integration in Eastern Europe? Not the Europeans but US. For example all the Europeans countries on the estern fringe like Latvia, Estonia, Poland, Romania etc are being provided US "muscle" to first calm them and then hug them into a safe European future.

US paratroops arrive in Poland amid tensions with Russia - News - Stripes

"WHAT IS OPERATION ATLANTIC RESOLVE?

Operation Atlantic Resolve is a demonstration of continued U.S. commitment to the collective security of NATO and to enduring peace and stability in the region, in light of Russia's illegal actions in Ukraine.

Army Europe is leading the Operation Atlantic Resolve enhanced land force multinational training and security cooperation activities taking place across Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania and Bulgaria. These activities build multinational interoperability, strengthen relationships and trust among allied armies, contribute to regional stability and demonstrate U.S. commitment to NATO."

Operation Atlantic Resolve | U.S. Army in Europe

Czech Republic

Poland

Riga, Latvia

This is USA stablizing the new members of the western block by providing the "muscle" and reassuring the people of these eastern European countries.

Operation Dragoon Ride - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The American's play the role of prefect or referee under whom everybody can get things done.