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Despite the WWII past, can China and Japan be real friends?

Real friendship between China and Japan is not possible. No this isn't my emotions talking, but what historical trends show.

Japan is a constant menace to China, and has been since the Tang dynasty. It only became submissive after Tang decisively beaten the Japanese invaders at the Battle of Baekgang in 663. Realizing how big of a gap it had with China, it started sending emissaries to learn our culture and technology. This is the only period where the two peacefully co-existed, not because Japan was friendly, but because Tang was much stronger. The thanks from Japan for sharing our culture and technologies with them were in the form of plundering, slaughter and invasion.

Fast forward to Song dynasty, where China lost much of its prestige and military power due to turmoils of the collapsing Tang Empire, Japanese pirates started preying on Chinese trade ships on the open seas. As China grew weaker under the assaults of Jurchen, Mongols and internal corruption, the audacity and ambition of Japanese raiders grew. There was a small lull during the short lived Yuan dynasty, but that didn't last long. By Ming dynasty, it was landing on China's coasts and plundering/enslaving/slaughter sea side villages and towns.

By late Qing dynasty, Japan was brazen enough to openly make plans to invade China. Not only did it make plans, but it carried them out in stages. First it was Korea and Taiwan, then Northeast China, and eventually aimed to swallow the entirety of the country in WWII. Tens of millions perished in WWII alone due to Japanese aggression, not counting those that were affected earlier in history.

The only logical conclusion is that Japan is a beast that can only be kept in line when you have beaten it to the ground. Tang dynasty was able to do it, and so did the Americans. As soon as Japan senses weakness, it will revert back to its old pattern again. China must always be vigilant against it, and scorch the place if necessary to ensure it can no longer bite.

Well said.

Next time China and Japan face off, China should knock them out permanently at all costs.
 
Real friendship between China and Japan is not possible. No this isn't my emotions talking, but what historical trends show.

Japan is a constant menace to China, and has been since the Tang dynasty. It only became submissive after Tang decisively beaten the Japanese invaders at the Battle of Baekgang in 663. Realizing how big of a gap it had with China, it started sending emissaries to learn our culture and technology. This is the only period where the two peacefully co-existed, not because Japan was friendly, but because Tang was much stronger. The thanks from Japan for sharing our culture and technologies with them were in the form of plundering, slaughter and invasion.

Fast forward to Song dynasty, where China lost much of its prestige and military power due to turmoils of the collapsing Tang Empire, Japanese pirates started preying on Chinese trade ships on the open seas. As China grew weaker under the assaults of Jurchen, Mongols and internal corruption, the audacity and ambition of Japanese raiders grew. There was a small lull during the short lived Yuan dynasty, but that didn't last long. By Ming dynasty, it was landing on China's coasts and plundering/enslaving/slaughter sea side villages and towns.

By late Qing dynasty, Japan was brazen enough to openly make plans to invade China. Not only did it make plans, but it carried them out in stages. First it was Korea and Taiwan, then Northeast China, and eventually aimed to swallow the entirety of the country in WWII. Tens of millions perished in WWII alone due to Japanese aggression, not counting those that were affected earlier in history.

The only logical conclusion is that Japan is a beast that can only be kept in line when you have beaten it to the ground. Tang dynasty was able to do it, and so did the Americans. As soon as Japan senses weakness, it will revert back to its old pattern again. China must always be vigilant against it, and scorch the place if necessary to ensure it can no longer bite.

100% correct. The problem I have is why do emperors start teaching Japanese their technology at the time? they come and bite you in the *** after.
 
Come on guys, the Japan of today is a good country and most Japanese are good people. I believe China and Japan will be friends soon enough.

I am saying this from an objective Viet perspective.
 
Come on guys, the Japan of today is a good country and most Japanese are good people. I believe China and Japan will be friends soon enough.

I am saying this from an objective Viet perspective.

this is from a Indonesian point of view about japanese

 
this is from a Indonesian point of view about japanese


Great song. They gave clean water, clean streets...

Japan also gave Asians the hope that they too can become an industrialized superpower. I think Xi has been instilled with this Japan-inspired hope, which he calls “the China dream”.
 
Great song. They gave clean water, clean streets...

Japan also gave Asians the hope that they too can become an industrialized superpower. I think Xi has been instilled with this Japan-inspired hope, which he calls “the China dream”.

that song is about Korea though, not about China. that is from my point of view, that the Japanese aren't as good as people saw they are. that women in the video is just a common Japanese, and she had to rub it to the koreans.

don't forget that Japanese has manipulated their own history.

please see their bad sides and good sides altogether. i might not live too long in Japan, but i do have two Japanese Fiancees
 
Come on guys, the Japan of today is a good country and most Japanese are good people. I believe China and Japan will be friends soon enough.

I am saying this from an objective Viet perspective.
because US, China, Russia are keeping Japan in check. If their military superiority over East Asia is like the 1930s again, you can be sure they will start to rape and pillage again.
 
Come on guys, the Japan of today is a good country and most Japanese are good people. I believe China and Japan will be friends soon enough.

I am saying this from an objective Viet perspective.

Why are they denying the true side of their war crimes?
Why are they denying the horrors of Unit 731?
Why are they denying "Nanjing Massacre"?
Why are they paying respect to the war criminals at the Shrine in high profile each year?
Why are they paying tribute to the worst Judge appointed at Far East War Crimes Tribunal?
Why do they refuse to compensate the dead or still living comfort women and slave labourers? The Jpnese court did it in the most humuliating fashion by granting the Korean victims a pittance compensation !!!
The Chosun Ilbo (English Edition): Daily News from Korea - Japan Paid Derisory Compensation for Forced Labor

Why do they refuse to honour the currency that they created and brutally forced the victimized people to use it in the occupied territories?
Why are they not giving equal tributes to all the victims of other countries who died because of their invasion? They are organising very eventful tributes to their own people who died as a result of the bombs each year with many local and overseas dignitaries attending.
Why are they voting Abe - the right wing PM into office for the third time?
 
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Come on guys, the Japan of today is a good country and most Japanese are good people. I believe China and Japan will be friends soon enough.

I am saying this from an objective Viet perspective.

When will the japanese looters return our assets and territory:

Japan had plundered 6000 tons of gold from China during the WWII

Chinese Group Demands that Japanese Emperor Return Ancient Artifact | The Diplomat


Documents: Japan knew Diaoyu Islands belong to China
Documents: Japan knew Diaoyu Islands belong to China CCTV News - CNTV English
 
Nothing is impossible.
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Xinhua Insight: China and Japan: Between love and hate

By Xinhua Writer Bai Xu

BEIJING, Sept. 2 (Xinhua) -- After hearing that Iwao Tsuyoshi, his Japanese friend, would be visiting China, Yang Haihui, 35, booked some time off work.

"I will take him to the Forbidden City," Yang, who works for Japanese semiconductor manufacturer Renesas Electronics, said.

Back in 2002, Yang was sent to Japan for training, and Iwao was his supervisor. "He took me out in his spare time and showed me around," Yang recalled. Before he left, Iwao gave his Chinese colleague gifts.

Yang grew up listening to his grandfather's stories about his time as a soldier during China's War against Japanese Aggression. This colored his opinion of the country.

"Had I been told that Renesas was a Japanese company, I might not have accepted the job," he admitted. Gradually, however, he discovered that the Japanese people were not as he had imagined. "I have visited Japan more than ten times," he said. "I found the people to be mostly polite, friendly and diligent."

LOVE THY NEIGHBOR

China and Japan, although sharing many similarities, have a fractious relationship. Confucianism and Buddhism travelled to Japan from China, and even the characters used in Japanese are derived from the Chinese script.

Although these shared cultural characteristics have led to many Chinese having an affinity toward their eastern neighbor, the eight-year Sino-Japanese war has left a scar in the hearts of Chinese.

Ma Jiangang's uncle died fighting the Japanese Imperialist Army in the 1940s. Ma, 58, however, does not hate Japan because of this.

On the contrary, he has great memories of watching the Japanese movies and TV dramas of the 1980s, the honeymoon period between China and Japan following the normalization of diplomatic relations in 1972.

He also liked Japanese electronic appliances. "Everyone wanted a Japanese color television," he recalled. His first TV was Hitachi.

In the 1990s, however, Ma's feelings changed due to the rise of the Diaoyu Islands dispute. His daughter Huixin went through a similar change.

"I hate their leaders' visiting the Yasukuni Shrine [where war criminals are worshipped] and the denial of the Nanjing Massacre," said the 34-year-old civil servant.

A joint poll by "China Daily" and the Japanese non-profit think tank Genron NPO last year showed that 86.8 percent of the Chinese viewed Japan unfavorably, while 93 percent of Japanese had a negative impression of China, the worst since 2005.

TWO SIDES OF THE SAME COIN

At the same time, however, the two countries seem to be inseparable.

China is Japan's largest trading partner. In 2014, China provided 22.3 percent of Japan's imports. More than 23,500 Japanese enterprises have invested in China.

However hard she tried, it was not easy for Ma Huixin to eliminate all the Japanese elements from her life. Her son liked Japanese animations. Her family recently watched the movie "Doraemon: Stand by Me". The blue cat-like robot was part of the mother's childhood memories, too.

Yang Haihui said that at least one of every 10 automobiles that roll off production lines in China used chips produced by his company.

Perhaps Nanjing in Jiangsu Province, east China, is a place where anti-Japan sentiment is highest. The Rape of Nanking massacre in the winter of 1937 left at least 300,000 people dead at the hands of the Japanese. The death toll has never been officially recognized by Japan.

Taxi driver Wu Qifeng in Nanjing has a rule: Never carry Japanese. Once he discovered that two of his three passengers were Japanese, he stopped the cab immediately. "I ordered them to get out," he said. "In Nanjing, I am not the only driver to do so."

In the shopping malls, however, Japanese cosmetics still line the shelves, and books by Japanese authors are also available. "There are always people asking me 'why are there Japanese cars on the roads of Nanjing',"Wu said. He felt ashamed.

The situation was no different in Japan.

Xinhua interviewed three Japanese: A 41-year-old civil servant, a 27-year-old lawyer and a 52-year-old manager. They expressed a preference for Chinese cuisine, trust in traditional Chinese medicine and good impressions of clothes and electrical appliances made in China.

"But if I had the choice, I would only eat food made in Japan, because I always see reports of bad food quality in China," said the manager.

LOOKING FORWARD

Many Chinese, especially the young, have tried to embrace Japan.

Han Feng likes Japan. She watches Japanese movies, and buys Japanese brands.

"I even visited the Yasukuni Shrine, but the overt denial of aggression just made me really angry," she said. Han is from northeast China, where the Japanese set up the puppet regime Manchukuo.

"We really want to let go of the past," said Jiang Yicong, 22, whose great grandfather led the No. 19 Army against the Japanese in Shanghai. "But if they stop the attempt to temper with history, we could get on much better."

Last month, three Japanese cabinet ministers and Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's wife visited the Yasukuni Shrine. In July, Japan's Lower House passed a controversial security bill that would give the Self-Defense Force a greater role worldwide; this is a violation of the country's post-war constitution.

Despite these trying circumstances, the people of both countries never stopped moving closer to each other.

By April 2013, 60 percent of Japan's international students were from China. Similarly, Japan was China's fourth biggest foreign student origin country.

Yano Koji first came to China in the early 2000s to study Chinese, and is now one of the most popular Japanese actors in China.

At first, he played many Japanese soldiers -- the archetypal "bad guys".

Gradually he was accepted by the Chinese audience, and now has tens of thousands of fans. He also has a Chinese wife and a daughter.

"As an actor, I am a conduit," he said. "Everyone who works between China and Japan could be a channel, and we could unite to make a difference, so that in spite of politics, the exchanges between Chinese and Japanese people continue."

Chinese director Lu Chuan was glad to see his movie "City of Life and Death" (2009) shown by Japan's largest online video platform niconico.jp. The film focuses on the Nanjing Massacre.

When the film was shown four years ago in a cinema in Tokyo, more than 40 police officers and several police cars safeguarded the event in case right-wing extremists caused trouble, Lu recalled.

The screening was a good start, Lu said, adding that he hoped the people from China and Japan could have more exchanges "to understand each other better."

Yang Haihui observed that in Japan, elderly people who knew the war better tend to be more friendly toward China than the younger generation.

"There might be many people in both countries who were like me in the past: disliking each other but without really knowing each other," he said.

A book written by Chinese TV host Bai Yansong, who made a program about Japan several years ago, reads: "Love or hatred, put it aside [...] Understand each other first. With enough understanding, everything is possible."

Xinhua Insight: China and Japan: Between love and hate - CCTV News - CCTV.com English
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Put Yano Koji's name in the article in bold since there's a Foreigners in China episode worth watching about his career in China and his feelings about acting in his usual film role.


@Nihonjin1051
 
Nothing is impossible.


Of course nothing is impossible, it will require strength of foresight and stalwart , mature foreign policy flexures on both national sides to see ethrough the complex geopolitical apparatus that seems to have transfixed the positions of both Tokyo and Beijing in almost bipolar positions. However, and i must stress this, for many students of policy (and i include myself in this reputable grouping), there is no linear and symmetrical visage and neither is the relations between Tokyo and Beijing 'simple', however and despite the positivist transformationalism seen in recent decades between the two. Be that as it may, if we consider the chronology of post war relations and the developments in the fields of finance, environmentalism, education, research, culture, economic law, corporate law, judicial law, maritime law -- it leaves one to be impressed with the shear contributions in bilateral intergovernmentalism and in that political rapport framework that has been the almost copy of the same political theory applied in the European context in regards to post-Pax Sovietica. The caveat to the Japanese and Chinese political relations is that relations are interwoven to national emotions, which dost change from epoch to epoch. Then again, if we take this into consideration in the socio-philosophical contextual visage, we must understand that national diplomatic paradigm is not inorganic, and solemnly inconsequential, but, rather, is the national manifestation of the organic national feelings of the people. Thus, it serves researchers, academians to consider the valuation of studying such paradigm shifts in terms of national polity. I suppose that's what makes international relations and to an extent --- socio-psychology --- rather interesting because we have have the opportunity (or should i say blessedness? ;) ) to consider the various multiple variables that influences said policy changes. Too exciting !



Regards,
 
Nothing is impossible.
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Xinhua Insight: China and Japan: Between love and hate

By Xinhua Writer Bai Xu

Impossible

Dont be ultra NAIVE - rugering, even you may have your own agenda to promote


Read post # 3 and related threads stated below and elsewhere in the forum thoroughly

More hate than love credit to the unrepentent, uncompensating, cunning, clumsy, manipulative, guileful, underhanded, deceptive right wings and others en masse

Former President Lee Teng-hui refers to Japan as 'the motherland" of Taiwan | Page 2

Images: the Chinese People's War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression | Page 9
 
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