@DESERTFOX

[Aepsilons]

That the slogans people raise when either defeated, run out of words or have nothing to present. When facts presented, suddenly the presenters become Pro-Nazi/Anti-Semitic. Zionists sympathizers old cheap trike to legitimize the illegal entity established on an occupied territories of Palestine. Funny that the brainwashed illiterates and ignorants somehow accuse arabs of being anti-Semitic when arabs themselves are Semitic people.


@Desert Fox

Nah, He doesn't any help from others, he has so far managed to smash the skulls of his opponents with well documented facts and reliable references.

Let me ask you a question, do you think that the arab recruits into the Wermacht were spurred with Anti-British sentiments? Another question, hypothetically, let us say that German prevailed and was victorious in the war. Do you think that the Nazis would have implemented unfavorable policies towards Arabs in newly-conquered Nazi territories in North Africa and the Middle East?

Have you read into Nazi theories of Racial Heirarchy? Do you know about the concept of Ausländer ? Or foreign slaves ? Do you know where your position would be in a Nazi-Dominated Sphere? It would have been in the bottom, my friend. They regarded everyone outside the sphere of European Civilization as an inferior culture and the people as Untermenchen "Subhuman".

 

[Developereo]

@AUSTERLITZ
SUPERLIKE to your posts here!!!
I 'm surprised that in this age too we 've Hitler sympathizers.
But I regret that you gave this thread the name of a user and unlike the other person you've not tagged your frens here.
Now let me warn you that you're banging your head against a wall.

You miss the point entirely.

The issue is not about supporting Hitler. It's about being able to discuss the subject without being shouted down as conspiracy theorists and anti-Semites. History is always a lot more complicated than the simplified, sanitized version most people believe.

We discuss controversial subjects involving Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists -- but as soon as the word 'Jewish' is involved, the intellectual fascism kicks in and debate must be shut down.

 

[Developereo]

Let me ask you a question, do you think that the arab recruits into the Wermacht were spurred with Anti-British sentiments? Another question, hypothetically, let us say that German prevailed and was victorious in the war. Do you think that the Nazis would have implemented unfavorable policies towards Arabs in newly-conquered Nazi territories in North Africa and the Middle East?

Have you read into Nazi theories of Racial Heirarchy? Do you know about the concept of Ausländer ? Or foreign slaves ? Do you know where your position would be in a Nazi-Dominated Sphere? It would have been in the bottom, my friend. They regarded everyone outside the sphere of European Civilization as an inferior culture and the people as Untermenchen "Subhuman".

Both the Brits and Nazis were racist supremacists who looked down upon Arabs.

When faced with two groups of racists, whom do you support?
Answer: the ones who are not killing you and giving your land to Jewish racist colonialists.

 

[Levina]

You miss the point entirely.

The issue is not about supporting Hitler. It's about being able to discuss the subject without being shouted down as conspiracy theorists and anti-Semites. History is always a lot more complicated than the simplified, sanitized version most people believe.

We discuss controversial subjects involving Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists -- but as soon as the word 'Jewish' is involved, the intellectual fascism kicks in and debate must be shut down.

Well the debate should continue and i saw some excellent posts by austerlitz.
I would restrain from contributing here because one, I hate Israeli government but i am not anti-jew (the opinion which has earned me a lot of brickbats on and off this forum) and two,I would sound very dilettante on this subject.
I've been following this thread since austerlitz created it.So I occasionally come here to read the posts.But when I realised that the other party was regularly tagging his frens to get pats on his back then I posted here to voice my view...now thats not as if austerlitz needed any support.Au contraire I merely wanted to show that there are ppl like me here who hold the same opinion as his.

Regards!

 

[Developereo]

Well the debate should continue and i saw some excellent posts by austerlitz.
I would restrain from contributing here because one, I hate Israeli government but i am not anti-jew (the opinion which has earned me a lot of brickbats on and off this forum) and two,I would sound very dilettante on this subject.
I've been following this thread since austerlitz created it.So I occasionally come here to read the posts.But when I realised that the other party was regularly tagging his frens to get pats on his back then I posted here to voice my view...now thats not as if austerlitz needed any support.Au contraire I merely wanted to show that there are ppl like me here who hold the same opinion as his.

Regards!

I respect both @AUSTERLITZ and @Desert Fox

Both of them are quality posters whose posts are worth reading. They happen to be on opposite sides of the debate and that's fine. Each side should be able to present their case without being shouted down with slogans and epithets.

 

[Aepsilons]

Both the Brits and Nazis were racist supremacists who looked down upon Arabs.

When faced with two groups of racists, whom do you support?
Answer: the ones who are not killing you and giving your land to Jewish racist colonialists.

I understand your point. But I cannot help but wonder if the Nazis would have changed their policy towards Arabs later on after they were , hypothetically speaking, victorious towards the allies. If German-Sino relations serve as pretext and an inkling of German strategem; it is this, they can shower 'friendly' forces with military equipment, investments, even friendly political speeches as was seen in the strong German-Chinese relations from 1933 all the way up to 1937. The Nazis gifted the Nationalist Forces of China (under Generalissimo Chiang Kai Shek) with German uniforms, weaponry , armor to fight the Communists Chinese during the Sino Civil War. But noticed how they easily abandoned their Chinese "allies" when the Empire of Japan told the Nazi Leadership of its desire to conquer China. That said, Hitler seamlessly lifted support to the Chinese, even called off the German diplomatic missions in China as well as German-administered Humanitarian centers.Despite almost 10 years of close German-Chinese cooperation.

It just shows to us how cheap promises were in those days. And as a Japanese I'm equally shamed because of the level of brutality the Imperial Army showed, and atrocities committed towards many Chinese civilians in these humanitarian centers as soon as the Germans left. Estimates vary; but as much as 20 million to 30 million Chinese died in the war with Japan.

So I cannot even defend my country's position. We were an aggressive and imperialist power. Allied with another aggressive and imperialist power, Nazi Germany. There is no defense of evil. We were 'evil' in that last war. And that is why we lost.

 

[Tameem]

Have you read into Nazi theories of Racial Heirarchy? Do you know about the concept of Ausländer ? Or foreign slaves ? Do you know where your position would be in a Nazi-Dominated Sphere? It would have been in the bottom, my friend. They regarded everyone outside the sphere of European Civilization as an inferior culture and the people as Untermenchen "Subhuman".

Before any Arab or Muslims answer it, do you entirely belief that Germans considers them too along with other allied
forces including Japan for the humiliation they receive in Treaty of Versailles in 1919. The point is, No the Nazism gains grounds in German nation solely for the atrocities of allied powers in the first place who are the harbinger of Capitalism and Marxism as well, as both these ideologies aspirant to rule world over. Nazism has nothing to do with with Arabs, Muslims or even Hindus entirely.....this is sheer exaggerations on the part of allied powers.

 

[Developereo]

But I cannot help but wonder if the Nazis would have changed their policy towards Arabs later on after they were , hypothetically speaking, victorious towards the allies.

Were the Nazis any different from the European colonialists and the way they treated their non-white allies? Or each other?

It's not even a racial thing. I am sure we can go back in history and see the same backstabbing by non-white empires.

It's all about temporary alliances, marriages of convenience. It would be unwise for anyone to hold any long term expectations.

 

[Tameem]

So I cannot even defend my country's position. We were an aggressive and imperialist power. Allied with another aggressive and imperialist power, Nazi Germany. There is no defense of evil. We were 'evil' in that last war. And that is why we lost.

For us, Both Central and Allied powers are Evils and both lost it in the end as people got their just independence from Indonesia to Algeria solely to this effect and world get rid of both imperialism and colonialism at last.

 

[Aepsilons]

Were the Nazis any different from the European colonialists and the way they treated their non-white allies? Or each other?

Interesting point, and valid. In fact, we can even start a new thread about this. I wanted to also mention that Nazi Germany's war with the British Empire, started in 1939, and subsequent decimation of British merchant fleet (vis-a-vis to Kriegsmarine U-boats) doomed the British Empire's foreign possessions. In fact, the war fast paced the demise of European empires abroad (French Indochina, British India, Dutch Malaccas).

I would even mention Japan's support for Bose in the Independence Movement in India.

 

[Aepsilons]

For us, Both Central and Allied powers are Evils and both lost it in the end as people got their just independence from Indonesia to Algeria solely to this effect and world get rid of both imperialism and colonialism at last.

Valid point. Yes, in the end the European Conflict was an unsuspected blessing for many of the colonial possessions of the European powers.

 

[KingMamba]

 

[Desert Fox]

@Desert Fox ,

The outbreak of the Second Sino Japanese War on July 7, 1937 destroyed much of the progress and promises made in the nearly ten years of intense Sino-German cooperation. Besides the destruction of industries in the war,Adolf Hitler's foreign policy would prove the most detrimental to Sino-German relations. In essence, Hitler chose Japan as his ally against the Soviet Union, because Japan was militarily far more capable to resist Bolshevism. In addition, the Sino-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact of August 21, 1937 definitely did not help to change Hitler's mind, despite persistent protests from the China lobby and German investors. However, Hitler did agree to have Hapro finish shipments already ordered by China, but did not allow any more orders from Nanking to be taken.

There were plans of a German-mediated peace between China and Japan, but the Fall of Nanjing in December 1937 effectively put an end to any mediation acceptable to the Chinese government. Therefore, all hope of a German-mediated truce was lost. In early 1938, Germany officially recognized Manchukuo as an independent nation. In April of that year, Herman Goerring banned the shipment of war materials to China and in May, German advisors were recalled to Germany at Japanese insistence.

This shift from a pro-China policy to a pro-Japan one was also damaging to German business interests, as Germany had far less economic exchange with either Japan or Manchukuo than China. Also, pro-China sentiment was also apparent in most Germans in China. For example, Germans in Hankow raised more money for the Red Cross than all other Chinese and foreign nationals in the city combined. Military advisors also wished to honor their contracts with Nanking. Von Falkenhausen was finally forced to leave at the end of June 1938, but promised Chiang that he would never reveal his work to aid the Japanese. On the other hand, Nazi Party organs in China proclaimed Japan as the last bulwark against Communism in China.

In the end, Nazi Germany sacrificed its relations with China with that for Imperial Japan.

All of what you stated is true. One of the major reasons for the Nazis having lost any interest in continued support for the Chinese at the expense of Japan was the inability to effectively curb the expansion of Communism within China itself. Hitler saw in Chiang Kai-shek a weak and corrupt leader, however Hitler's alliance with Japan was equally in response to American and British aggressive foreign policies against Germany as it was against the Soviet Union:

"The German public found Hitler's interest in Mussolini as incomprehensible as his shift to a pro-Japanese policy in the far east. Until 1937 Blomberg, the army, and the foreign ministry had persuaded him to maintain an influential mission in China. The expectation was that the Chinese leader, Chiang Kai-shek, would exchange raw materials for German guns, ammunition, and arms factories. Hitler saw Chiang as corrupt and wife-dominated however, and predicted that his lack of contact with the people would drive the Chinese into the arms of the Bolsheviks. In 1936 he had authorized German-Japanese staff talks in Berlin, initiated by the Japanese military attaché, General Hiroshi Oshima, and Ribbentrop's bureau.... After the Japanese declaration of war on China in June 1937, Hitler cancelled German aid to China. Ribbentrop demanded a military Tripartite Pact between Germany, Japan, and Italy, 'in anticipation of the inevitable conflict with the western powers.'"- Amazon.com: Hitler's War eBook: David Irving: Kindle Store


However, the reason for me posting those images was to show that 'evil racist intolerant' Hitler shook hands and posed with 'racially inferior' east Asians, also 'evil racist anti-semetic' Hitler had 150,000 Jews out of 300,000 German Jews (that's 1/3 of the total German Jewish population) serving within his Armed Forces and gov.t in high ranking positions.

 

[Desert Fox]

That the slogans people raise when either defeated, run out of words or have nothing to present. When facts presented, suddenly the presenters become Pro-Nazi/Anti-Semitic. Zionists sympathizers old cheap trike to legitimize the illegal entity established on occupied territories of Palestine. Funny that the brainwashed illiterates and ignorants somehow accuse arabs of being anti-Semitic when arabs themselves are Semitic people.


@Desert Fox

Nah, He doesn't any help from others, he has so far managed to smash the skulls of his opponents with well documented facts and reliable references.

They are all a bunch of intellectual weaklings. I must have overcharged their weak nervous systems with all of that well sourced information.

All they can do in response is "its a conspiracy theory, boo hoo"!!!

 

[Desert Fox]

Exactly! He has been taging his friends to help him out with some likes and make feel good kinda messages,Good for him, @AUSTERLITZ ,sir carry on with your articles,don't let him distract you,he would stick with supporting hitler no matter what.

Congratulations, you found out my secret evil plan

want a cookie for that??​